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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 18, 2020 05:49PM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly. It cost millions. Millions from where?
> His poor disciples? Raising millions to satisfy
> thier gurus whims and proclivity as a film maker
> or political orchestrator.

This is quite an important point. Many people in Poland, even activists, did not buy a flat themselves, devoted their lives to spreading the Holy Name, of course also to recruit to the sect (which does not work because there are no more new people; but a better atmosphere has caused more fans on the Facebook profile - about 15,000 now). They often lived in communes - they rented a flat together. They were sending money. One poor couple were worked to the bone sent money to the US for medicines for the Guru. Meanwhile, the foster son and the whole familia lived on a paradise island, Lanikai Beach ... The significance is terrible.

There is now a situation in one of the city where very nice devotees, while conducting meditation classes, attracted a lot of people. But practical life has been troubled. Rumor has it that Mr. Midget cheered them up for further action. But what is their life like? They do not have their own apartment, so they live with 2 other members of the cult (which in itself already violates the rules of brahmacari, I suspect). Moreover, the apartment does not belong to this cult member. Most of them are sick.

Mr. Midget "comforted them spiritually". Maybe he would kindly move and spend some money?. The same blindness as before. I watched one of the leaders engage her whole life in teaching neglecting professional skills, and I felt in my soul that it would end badly. Well, but Mr. Midget could see it. And he did not see. The party's mental bolt is spiritual blindness. Sect enrollment counts and units do not count. So where the love is? There is no love here. It was both an observation and an objection.

So I have attraction and enthusiasm - to be a hellish dog with teeth as hard as steel (description from Bhagavata Purana). What about my 700 colleagues?

The sweethearts of the familia should consider whether they are lying on the money of the bloodshed of devotees? I wouldn't take a fucking dime out of it. Not even any money for the work for familia, for which they didn't pay anyway.

Keep it !!! :)

(in the mood: [www.youtube.com])



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2020 05:55PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: hanson ()
Date: September 23, 2020 11:50AM

Finally I have found somewhere safe to talk about the 'Butler' and his gang. I am in Australia and got out a couple of years ago. I have had to adjust to real life again but still look over my shoulder. In Australia is is all run through ASMY - Australian School of Meditation and Yoga, and all the sub groups that belong to them.

Like everyone else has said, you start by wandering into a yoga and meditation center. Its decorated really beautifully and everyone is really calm and nice. You either do a yoga class, a kirtan chant, a cooking class, or all of the above. You feel great. You think you have found a new home and lovely healthy friends who don't like to party and you feel relieved. You start wanting more peace and you ask questions and then they see how enthusiastic you are and they start funneling you through.

You notice some things that are a bit off and they just distract and redirect you and tell you that you need to chant more as your confusion is caused by impurity and living in the mode of ignorance. skip forward and you are mopping their floors and cooking and building websites and doing photography and helping at retreats all because apparently you are serving a pure devotee or a disciple of a pure devotee. None of them have any contact with him by the way. But they will put his toe nail and salt spray on all the food they serve to people. Yes you read that right. Some of them don't even know that's what they are spraying on the food.

They have you going to their private houses for kirtan and dinner but before you know it they have you listening to and watching these old tapes. I was very attracted to all the gorgeous young girls and yet they were mostly married to really creepy assholes who treat people like crap. They refer to people as cows and that they must heard them and its like evil tupperware pyramid scheme, how many cows and calf's can you get.

They give you books to read, photo's to worship, food to eat, chanting to sing, cd's to listen too. You are not allowed to listen to anything but chanting, read anything but vedic texts and speak of any other god other than the vedic gods but yet they swear they are not Hare Krishna's. They make you renounce your family if they are not supportive. I lost my wife over it and thought it was a good thing at the time. I was so deluded. at first I thought I would find a new Krishna wife and be happy. but then all of the women only ever do two things and talk about two things, their weight and what dosha they are and what ayurvedic thing they ate, or fake preaching where they close their eyes, sway and make their voice weird. They are all obsessed with their bodies!!

They are still home schooling children, shunning and judging. I have another friend who just got out as a lot of people did when COVID 19 meant people had a break away from the place and had real world issues to deal with and found that they had been brain washed.

once you spend alot of time with them and they think you are ready, they have you renounce more and more of your ordinary life through passive aggressive guilt trips. They make all the women become Yoga teachers and married couples sleep in separate bedrooms and what they don't tell you at that very first yoga class is that the trajectory is that you will renounce your love of anything or anyone and they dress it up as enlightenment by not being attached to material things or two family members. They say things like why lament over the living or the dead.

They are very sophisticated and have great musicians and food and you think it is all above board. Just observe their language and try to talk about normal things and watch as they find a way to make it a preachable moment. but see if they can preach without swaying, closing their eyes and making their voice different. Watch your own behavior change as they force more teachings and 'service work' on you.

ASMY Australian School of Meditation and Yoga is in most capital cities with one main center and sub group gatherings like in yoga studios and town hall's and where ever else they can infiltrate. My friend in Queensland said at their main center they had an american tourist living in a storage room working day and night for no pay. Hope she got away.

They are very defensive when you ask about their 'guru'. Defensive and vague. They discourage your own endevours and ideas unless it is vedic related. But they don't come out and say that at first. It took me 3 years to click and then have been in contact with a couple of other escapees that reached out once they clicked as well. In Australia there is nothing about it being a complete cult. They do not tell you all the stuff about Chris Butler. They worship him like a god but yet none of them seem to have alot of contact if any with him. They do their trance voice when they talk about him. Some of them have been doing it all for decades and have all their kids involved. The kids were sent to the school in the philipines. Alot of them worked over in the philipines about a decade ago and further back. They only do a selected amount of chants and they fire any yoga teacher who doesn't do kirtan at the end of their classes. The men at first you think its so great they are not talking about macho stuff, but then they compete with you in other ways. The women all become obsessive basket cases.

You become very cut off from the real world and they always have some deluded answer for everything. It's just not safe. If they kept it just as simple yoga and chanting, that is relaxing and good for people. But if you are herded through to be one of them, then expect the first few years to be good and you will think you are doing such great things for humanity. then you will realise you are speaking like them and behaving like them and you don't actually know what you are taking about as you try to force it on your friends and family as instructed. Start them with the food and kirtan, then get them to read the scriptures, they shouldn't read anything else...... and so on and so on. They will get you constantly promoting their Wai Lana products and retreats and all sorts of crappy things to lure people in.

The kicker is when they tell husbands and wifes not to have love or attachment to each other or their children or they are behaving in the mode of ignorance. This is such a damaging community. I'm glad you are all free of them all over the world. take care, from melbourne australia.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 23, 2020 09:34PM

Please forgive me for asking:

Do Butler devotees have pictures of him in their houses?

I had a friend in a strange little non Butlerite sect. She and her husband had a large framed picture of their guru in their bedroom on the wall facing the foot of their bed.

(Corboy pauses to vomit)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 23, 2020 10:10PM

hanson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
Thank you for the testimony.


hanson Wrote:

> You notice some things that are a bit off and they
> just distract and redirect you and tell you that
> you need to chant more as your confusion is caused
> by impurity and living in the mode of ignorance.

If you read books in Poland written by their leaders, the fragment devoted to the mode of ignorance is paradoxically the longest.

>
> They have you going to their private houses for
> kirtan and dinner but before you know it they have
> you listening to and watching these old tapes.

Somewhere along the way there was an instruction - no listening to old tapes, which they still ignore today.

> They give you books to read, photo's to worship,
> food to eat, chanting to sing, cd's to listen too.
> You are not allowed to listen to anything but
> chanting, read anything but vedic texts and speak
> of any other god other than the vedic gods but yet
> they swear they are not Hare Krishna's. They make
> you renounce your family if they are not
> supportive.

Regarding the Vedic texts, for example, if you confront the behavior of activists with the Vedic texts, e.g. that they overwork themselves when the Bhagavad Gita says that you should be balanced in work and rest, they say that you allow the worst thing because you use the Scriptures to criticizing.

There was a lot of behavior that could have been refuted by the scriptures.

> I lost my wife over it and thought it
> was a good thing at the time. I was so deluded. at
> first I thought I would find a new Krishna wife
> and be happy. but then all of the women only ever
> do two things and talk about two things, their
> weight and what dosha they are and what ayurvedic
> thing they ate, or fake preaching where they close

>>They are all obsessed with their bodies!!

"Still looking amazing sisters".


> once you spend alot of time with them and they
> think you are ready, they have you renounce more
> and more of your ordinary life through passive
> aggressive guilt trips.

Confirmed. Perhaps this is an element of duplicating the behavior of activists (I'm talking about Poland), i.e. leaders who returned from Hawaii. Someone taught them that. In any case, it was far from the behavior of serious Catholics and on average associated with the etiquette of Vaisnava. "You're in your ass again" - this is a flexible approach to etiquette. I've never heard the words of an apology (in the case).


> They make all the women
> become Yoga teachers and married couples sleep in
> separate bedrooms

Buuuuuut. This is just the official image. The bright brahmacaris who have unexpectedly visited the houses of some of the women currently hosting the activists (married, of course) are saying something else.You know, the best rumors are about sex

> They worship him like a god
> but yet none of them seem to have alot of contact
> if any with him.

One of the Ukrainian initiates once said that this was her first chance to see a Guru live - probably in 2011 on a retreate ...


For me, in general, throwing into guilt is or naimittika dharma aimed at ignorant people who are addicted to drugs - it would be confirmed by Mr. Balakhiyla Midget - "spiritual life begins with the mode of goodness" - uttered in 2020. A little late...

Either way, the phenomena are similar in the cults of different religions. Initial love bombing mechanism etc.

"Sometimes you have to give them candy"

[www.youtube.com]

regards,

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: September 25, 2020 05:09AM

Greetings Hanson and welcome to the Forum.
Thank you for your testimony.
Something you said stood out- its an interesting thought-
Covid 19 as a Cult Cure.

Who would have thought!

I know that in Australia, the CV 19 issue is pretty draconian in measure.
I really do hope that if more of your friends are able to escape this very
destructive cult, that they find their way here.

Good on ya, mate, for seeing the Truth.

I do have one question- what do you mean when you write about the "salt spray". Most of us are already familiar with the "dash of toenails', but the salt spray?

with hope and support for your continuing progress,
Vox

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 25, 2020 08:27PM

Other examples that illustrate something as independent evidence:

1) Balakhilya.com website

[balakhilya.com]

A young woman, a Polish woman, on slide 3, the main page - is dead. She passed away 6 years ago. The slide would suggest a connection with the Absolute in meditation, but the question arises whether it is fortunate to use a picture of a very nice and gentle person after she has passed away, and whether it is utilitarianism and hurting the feelings of the deceased's family. Or perhaps the cult simply didn't care, or were afraid to ask the leader. After all, another gentleness of the devotee once expressed itself "I'm afraid of his wrath" - at the same time a person with great empathy - practical.

2) Atmasfera.com

What's wrong? Generally, the band loosely associated with the group, but it is an open secret that many cult people from Poland have helped organize their concerts for years. What's more, it was in Poland that the group had the opportunity to gain recognition due to the geopolitical circumstances, they also appeared in a television show (where the secret is open .....ok, not this time).

So what's wrong here? As you can see, the atmasfera.com website has only an Ukrainian and an English version. The members of the group, who repeatedly expressed their 'gratitude' for their help in practice, treat their Polish fans indifferently - the website does not have a Polish version. The Polish version on the atmasfera.pl domain does not work.

However the very name of the group and domain is in conflict with another artistic event - a native brand in Poland:

[atma.com.pl]

But as you can see, the group did not bother to take care of the Polish version - polish fans and cult people did their free job so they can go away. Who cares.Everyone can make cute, soulful faces for a photo. It's not worth recreating a website for Polish fans ... And this is what the cult looks like. Activists try to create a nice facade, but underneath the facade there is a utilitarian and lack of empathy. Ingratitude. There are, however, many mild-mannered good soul devotees in this sauce.


VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do have one question- what do you mean when you
> write about the "salt spray". Most of us are
> already familiar with the "dash of toenails', but
> the salt spray?

Anticipating Hanson's answer, yes - in the last 4-5 years pouches with "holy salt" and something else have arrived in Poland. They will go to the lab.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2020 08:28PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: September 27, 2020 04:21AM

Vox, the salt spray, and we did this too, was butlers foot wash water in a spray bottle to make the food extra "maha"... but I may be wrong.

Hanson, all of this checks out and is my observations as well. I laugh at the bodily obsessed part from a cult that hammers "you are not the body" rhetoric as thier go-to. I guess they are getting pretty for krishna...

Your statement "
You become very cut off from the real world and they always have some deluded answer for everything."... this is basically the end result. You are cut off. Read only thier stories, narrative and books and have a naive half baked answer for everything and nothing. And the swaying and closing your eyes and changing your voice is classic. ISKCON devotes used to do that with adopting a slight indian style of speaking like Bhaktivedanta. Its 100% personality worship. Blind, no logic and with a hefty dose of philosophy, feel good myths and yoga, food and music. Naturally it feels nice at the start. But them you are mentally obliterated and handicapped the deeper you dive. It becomes about money, businesses, working on bizarre pet projects for the guru, politics and endless odd endeavors all touted to be for krishna. And dont even start asking about krishna. His 16000 wives, extramarital affairs with cowheard girls, stealing clothes from bathing girls etc etc. That's all transcendental and off limits. Sure, you can read it, worship it and have your life revolve around it, but just don't question or wonder. Research, study or get to the bottom of your own faith system. That's offensive. So you wake up as an adult years later with a tattoo of a lion headed or elephant headed god on your back and wonder what the hell went wrong. How you could have been taken for such a fucking crazy ride. But by then your life is so entangled and distorted it's almost impossible to ever get out.

Thanks for speaking up and giving a personal account from Australia. Most of the guys I was in the PI with for 4 years were from Australia. All great guys. Talented, full of potential and prospects. They drowned thier mind in a completely nonsensical universe with butler in the middle.

Tulsi was butlers grand attempt at trying to download his brand of spirituality into the world. She seems a nice person. Genuine. I think that was the hardest to see. A legion of Butler devotees was mobilized in support of this candidate for one reason alone: Butler.

Butler has been using his followers for years to do his bidding. Be that financial gain or political power. He casually mixes his spirituality with his power trips like most gurus. Before you know it he's making his followers feel guilty and threatening them with his displeasure and spiritual suicide if they don't do you exactly what he needs. The sad part is that he really believes that he's gods Grand gift to humanity. And he's somehow fooled a good chunk of people into believing it too. Anyway, it's all going to crumble down here soon as he's always been very frail and now he's old sad and angry on top of it all. You got to hand it to them though, they had a Hari Krishna on the White House ticket. For those of us who grew up in this cult, it was both disturbing and amusing to watch. Because we all knew the psychology and the spiritual traditions and rituals and all the other bizarre weird-ass shit we grew up with that created this political figurehead. We knew without a shadow of a doubt that she was in direct daily communication with Butler and that a legion of devotees was being mobilized in her support for no logical Democratic reason but on the dictate of a crazy reclusive Guru. Good times.

Literally all of the people on her staff were guys I went to Butler's school with or people whose parents I knew and were close personal disciples and Servants of Butler. And seeing the criminal and drug money connections from Gralow's journalism was revelatory. It all fell together like a tight fitting puzzle and we all finally breathed a sigh of relief to have put together all the pieces of this criminal cult Enterprise. We had been caught up for all these years in a criminal spiritual Cults drama. Once the internet took a stronghold, they all had to scramble and clean up their identity. There are literally hundreds of sites dedicated to Butler. They're completely unmaintained sites with posts from years ago and basically just litter the internet with nothing more then filler information. A distraction.

I honestly don't really care so much about the people that are old timers and born into this cult. They really don't have much of a choice like most people born into the faith of their families. For me, this has always been an effort to warn people who have recently joined or have been in it for a little while and start to question things or feel that some things are off. And it seems to have done that. Over the years a good handful of people have come out to give their testimony and it all matches up.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: September 28, 2020 01:21AM

And if you need an amusing weekend read check out this lovely gem: [haribhakt.com]

This is an essence the ideological backbone of any Western variant of Hinduism. It's what's simmering underneath the surface veneer of all those science of identity yoga studios and kirtan huts. It's what the Tulsi/Modi alliance is tangled in and at the heart of Bhaktivedanta swamis wish for a so called varnashram vedic society.

What should have stayed a small bengali bhakti sect is very possibly going to grow to be a movement like this with strong international support from large pockets of western devotees. And back to the dark ages we go. I'm kidding, most sane and rational folks will see it for what it is. Religious fundamentalist fascism. Just like Butlers lecture rants.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 28, 2020 02:46AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tulsi was butlers grand attempt at trying to
> download his brand of spirituality into the world.
> She seems a nice person. Genuine. I think that was
> the hardest to see. A legion of Butler devotees
> was mobilized in support of this candidate for one
> reason alone: Butler.

Tulsi Gabbard seems like a nice person, but knows little Bhagavad Gita. As you can see in today's politics, a woman can give a gift to the Prime Minister of India - Bhagavad Gita whom she herself does not know well. For me, it is important that when accusing the public of religious bigotry, she uses the same manipulative methods that were used in SIF Poland. Exaggeration, guilt and exploitation - this time for political gain. This is the height of hypocrisy because SIF was isolationist, as emphasized in the Forum. Not to read any other unacceptable books of other Masters etc. At the same time, supposedly Gaudiya-sanga introduces Yoga-Nidra to teaching, starts a dialogue with the recruits from Hatha-Yoga to need to go to Bhakti-Yoga but not too deeply again. If today you ask SIF Poland activists about the realities of the Spiritual World described in Sanskrit terms, they do not know it. Moments later they attack, accuse "casting out spirits" etc. with the words of Jesus or suggest that something bad will happen to you. Confirmed several times in the last few months.

The involvement in politics is interesting because politics also caused problems in Poland. Madhava dasi, a very big authority in SIF Poland, once said that "politics is a dark forest in which it is easy to get lost". What has changed since then that politics, especially world politics, is not a dark forest? Especially when the inevitable compromises or contacts end up selling arms worth several billion dollars to India? Or that policy that causes US presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard to accept late abortion (then revised stance, clarified), marijuana, and so on. This policy allows Tulsi Gabbard to say publicly that the purpose of Caitanya Mahabprabu was to spread Karma Yoga, when the SIF taught that Siksastaka began with words emphasizing the congregational chanting of Holy Names, and this is the only method on the Kali Yuga - for Self-realization.

Wait a minute .... What's going on here?

In Poland in the years 95-99 incidents of the Republican League that attacked devotees in Krakow. They generally plastered the stairwells of the one of Elder devotees house's staircase with skulls. The devotee was kicked out of the apartment (he was then 80). Madhava dasi was attacked by on a public lecture. The firecracker must have even set her shirt on fire (Anyway, the whole thing about kicking this old devotee out of his apartment may have been and was partly provoked ... but that's a topic for a different story.)

Hence my question - what has changed that politics is now not a dark forest and women from former SIF Poland on Facebook like posts from Tulsi Gabbard as if it were at least at the Guru level?

You are not going to "win this war like the merciful Nityananda" but take the materialists by their snouts by force and force them to love God and neighbor? With US Navy? And if strength isn't the goal, why do you need a US President position? To give an example of planting trees?

Another thing is that I find political commitment incompatible with the teachings (distribution of prasada, holy names and publications only). And the reasoning that by engaging in political compromises will be avoided and some extraordinary goals will be achieved is additionally naive given the theory of gunas as well as the words of Siddhaswarupananda himself, who himself admitted that this method would never be effective.



What's going on here???


Finally, I have a request to readers of this forum, former SIF members - if any of you have information and evidence that J.B.Midget aka Balakhilya das has brahminical initiation, please contact me privately. I am interested in the name of this Guru, the name given, evidence from the ceremony, etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2020 02:55AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: September 28, 2020 02:49AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me, this has always been an effort to warn
> people who have recently joined or have been in it
> for a little while and start to question things or
> feel that some things are off.

Crush the liers and deniers! Remember yourselves! Because the day of God's punishment is near. Or at least every sect says so. Apocalyptic.

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