IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If spiritual life is meant to get to the heart of
> the experience we are all having, then it must be
> approached with caution and extreme discrimination
> and discernment.

Among the philosophical systems of India are analytical samkhya or logical methodological nyaya. The tradition is based on the scriptures and includes public discussions of pandits (in good spirits).

All of these elements are either rejected or severely discriminated against in the SIF.

History of the traditions says - Caitanya was the greatest pandit...

> To Simply state that something is
> Transcendental or profound because of how ancient
> it is or how good it makes you feel for some time
> then that is not a measure of its absolute value.
> It may have some value. It may give some insight,
> but it is not Beyond being questioned. The butler
> group in my opinion has way too many red flags to
> be considered an authentic and reason oriented
> path.

It is true. Too much controversy, too many red flags.

> There is way too many things mentioned on
> this forum and in many other places that one can
> deduce that there's something fishy going gone. It
> cannot always be that doubt arises in a
> practitioner abstractly or due to some failing on
> the parts of the practitioner.

The methodology of denial. Of course, you can also justify activists by not being very bright, so basically being under the control of their own hypocrisy is insurmountable for them.

> Other than bhaktivedanta Swami,
> none of these people attained any sort of
> meaningful social notoriety or influence. And even
> bhaktivedanta Swami's influence was largely
> because of major social disruption during the
> hippie movement where everybody was looking for
> some sort of answer to the social conundrums of
> the time.

Ultimately, the search for the complete truth is the domain of the few.

> Faith in a higher reality is a byproduct of the
> Human Experience (we crave meaning to our
> reality). And as a general rule, I don't think
> there is any harm in believing in a higher power
> or feeling that there is something more to life
> then simple sense gratification and mundane
> Pursuits. However, as soon as Faith transforms to
> Dogma and religious fervor, it begs the question
> how much of that is real and how much of it is
> based on simple human mechanics, chemicals, social
> structures and so forth.

The complex truth is generally not grasped by the majority of the population. Visible reality requires advanced multidomain knowledge. Physics, mathematics, mechanics, biology, chemistry, biophysics, biochemistry, electronics, psychology, sociology, systems dynamics, computer science (information theory) etc. Useful reductionisms can be helpful and to some extent understood.

But again, blind faith in them is harmful. Let us take the scientific basis of Ekadasi. In general, there is talk of the relationship of vegetable growth in connection with the light of the moon. And suppose that the discipline of Ekadasi arose from the observation of the harmful effects. Well, on a different latitude or longitude, the influence of the Moon may have a different character, and a different continent is a different soil, different vegetables, different chemistry, so the influence on human organisms that differ genetically (slightly) or have different taste preferences may be different.

So appreciating the Veda is beneficial, and blind faith in the Veda, fanatical faith, is unfavorable.

It is also possible to recognize in a scientific sense the argument that the scriptures spoken/written may be of greater value than experimental knowledge, because currently in-depth scientific research requires a sponsor and a large budget. So in this sense absolute knowledge is not developed, but only knowledge for the benefit of stakeholder sponsors. Army, corporations, governments with dominating parties etc.

>
> We can claim that we are not the body or that
> there is more than meets the eye, but a lot of
> these states of Consciousness are realized through
> a very precise meditative practices. To observe
> consciousness and become aware of mental streams
> takes decades. The average person will never
> experience such a realization. So for most
> practitioners of bhakti yoga, they simply take it
> at face value, before they have ever even remotely
> ventured to explore any serious and consistent
> meditative practice. Essentially, it's Superfluous
> information to be average person to walk around
> feeling like they are not the body.

Then a person with some empathy and sensitivity can do one thing - apply universal moral principles. It won't be a mistake.

> Somehow magically we are meant to
> believe that the mantra that is barely mentioned
> in The Vedic scriptures at all, is all-powerful
> and able to elevate our Consciousness and give us
> a spiritual experience. I propose this is
> disingenuous and false. Simply because there are
> many scientific ways to explain the addiction that
> one may experience to repetitive chanting and
> wholesome communal experiences.

One can check. If checking lasts 30 years and no effect - no value.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2020 04:51AM by Culthusiast.

THE DANGERS OF DERANGED DEVOTION
or, You can only be as good as your Teacher.

From somewhere on the 'net:

[www.youtube.com]

its been awhile and I always enjoy contributing to the most popular forum on this site....Something is not all "Krishna-loka" on the inside of the butler cult these days. The devotees on the peripheral (Philippines, Arizona, Northern CA, Poland, Las Vegas, Nevada etc...) are not aware of this odd stirring that is occurring. I know that prior to Tulsi's run for higher office my sources informed me that Jagad Guru was initiating people left and right re-stocking the pond so to speak. Butler and the faithful had allot riding on the coat tails of her (tulsi) US Rep position and her highlights in the national media got the "Krsna Juices" flowing. Since then, there is a hang-over of sorts and the Cult is not banging on their mridanga's as loudly and faithfully. The Pras?dam is not tasting as "pure". I am not sure exactly how things are going to flush out with these internal developments, but something is up. We all know that bulter is a hypochondriac, so the pandemic probably has this boy spooked out of gosh dang mind. I will report more information as things bubble up, I don't have any specifics, but when I learn more I will report more.
AC4711



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2020 06:03AM by AC4711.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From somewhere on the 'net:
>
> [www.youtube.com]


Harassment, rape - it happens in principle in most hierarchical religious organizations.

The problem is party mental and denial. The same is true of SIF activists. There was quoted a case where a woman devotee came to one of the centers in Poland, forced by her "guru" to have sex. She came to SIF for rescue or help. There was no reaction. Oh, she chose the wrong "guru" she suffers.

A worse example is when activists are told that i.e. there is evidence that TG took a subsidy from an abortion clinic, they will disprove it, attack it, and follow the instructions not even look at the evidence. The same mechanisms as, for example, in the Catholic Church in Poland. Nobody wants to believe a 14-year-old girl molested by a priest, so she commits suicide. Of course, it is possible either to slander a spiritual person, to provoke or to actually abuse a kid. So seriousness is required. Immediate denal is a lack of seriousness.

And these are the consequences of creating idols. The guru is supposed to be self-effulgent. And not "recognized in the world". When I ask people from Australia if "the recognized in the world" is so recognized, they say that "they once found out that he emerged as a guru and authority".

It cannot be fooled.

They do not want however to jump out of the train. Jumping Jack...

Yet another mechanism is ridiculous. "The one recognized in the world" gives a webinar on Facebook. And now activists are making an artificial traffic in the form of comments. Well, yes, but the content of the comments. One of them sounded more or less like "how interesting it is, I'll read in because there can be a lot of information there." The problem is that the author of the comment has been in a group for over 30 years and wrote a book about it. Treating People Like Idiots.

Yeees. There can be money it in for the book or the fame!! Really...

Stupid does, stupid is...



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2020 09:49PM by Culthusiast.

Hello again,

Thank you for the few responses to my post. It has taken me this long to pluck up the courage to write again but its a lot worse than I thought with the Australian side of things.

i just need to ask? How do we stop this... but without incurring risk to our own safety? Is there anyone in Australia who specializes in helping people escape from cults? ASMY are bringing people in by the thousands and then hundreds are filtering through year by year to sign up to be initiated by Butler. The worse they get the more sophisticated they seem to become. They seem so untouchable but there are so many losing so much. Where can people in Australia turn to for help? Any advice on how to bring this to the attention of the police?

Please help. Thank you

Hanson

Hello,

hanson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i just need to ask? How do we stop this...

The question is what is to stop. Ordinary devotees in Poland do many good things. They feed the homeless, support pro-social events, etc. They have their own programs at home or congregational kirtans, and that's good. This is their freedom of choice. On the other hand, if activists preach a false message (why, for example, on the website mantra.pl, the word 'Gaudiya' is not mentioned even once - has something changed? . Or why does J.B.Midget use the name 'Balakhilya das' when he is said to be an initiated Brahmin? Where, when and why was it unknown?

> without incurring risk to our own safety? Is there
> anyone in Australia who specializes in helping
> people escape from cults? ASMY are bringing people
> in by the thousands and then hundreds are
> filtering through year by year to sign up to be
> initiated by Butler.

Siddhaswarupananda has never been to Poland.

> sophisticated they seem to become. They seem so
> untouchable but there are so many losing so much.

It is important to show what the mechanism looks like.

Let us take the example of one woman-devotee from Poland. There were suggestions in the 1990s to send children to the Philippines to the brahmacari school. Different diet, different climate, different language,different bacteria, thousands of kilometers from parents. Now we learned from Ian Koviak that Siddhaswarupanada may never have come there. The boys were treated worse than the Young Prince (what spiritual equality !!), they were sexually abused and the young Prince contracted a venereal disease from a Filipino witch, so they were interrogated all night. This is a very spiritual and high standard.Worth of traveling sereval thousands of kilometers.

So this woman in Poland, under the influence of the group, leading an isolationist life, decided under the influence of narrative or pressure to send her son from Poland to the brahmacari school. She sold her apartment. It is very difficult for the average person to buy a flat in Poland. This is not the US. This means the need for a permanent job (and therefore less time to participate in the cult) and taking a loan for 30 years (Balakhilya das advised against taking loans; he did not want to advise psychologically because he is not a psychologist, but he advised against taking loans, so as you can understand he is a financial adviser). The woman sold the apartment, the son went to this wonderful Filipino school. She stayed in Poland. No flat, no good job, no husband (narrative) and her nerves are torn. These are the fruits of this teaching. On the practical side. She is not the only one living in such chaos. And let's take further examples - a recently supported couple that taught in one of the Polish cities also do not have an apartment, so they lived with one of the devotees. What effects? They are devoted philosophically to the cause but cannot afford the rent together.Really impressive.


Of course, they can work for other devotees, businessmen type. Well maybe. Only they sometimes said that because they were serving God, their workers should work for free. Ooops...

Well, but they can then complain to the apreciated activist, the initiated person who sits near Balakhilya das on retreats, so certainly thanks to physical proximity he experiences more enlightenment and divinity. Well, such an activist replies that they are businessmen, they must be like that. Ooops.

WTF ???

> Any advice on how to bring this to the attention
> of the police?

People have evidence for activities. Former member. Mentioned earlier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2020 08:40PM by Culthusiast.

Once and for all, I will remind you once again what has been written here, an important lesson that people in Poland have heard about the printing machine "The printing machine is the mouth of the Spiritual Master, so we should pay the respects to the machine."

As it was written in earlier posts - for the final fruit of the distribution of Holy Scriptures, the teaching of the Guru, the DTP man, the printer, the cutter, the bookbinder, paper, paints, printing machine, etc. are needed.

According to philosophy, living entities are the marginal energy of God, and therefore they stand higher than dead matter.

So a printer, DTP guy, bookbinder etc. they stand higher according to philosophy.

However, the instruction said pay respects to the machine.

So this is materialistic science. And people have no value for something that has financial value.

Therefore they have to pay their respects to the machine and they can be offended with impunity.

Are activists offended by these words? It's just true. All of you "methodically offended" activists who read this - that's just the truth.

And I don't need to know anything else from this source.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2020 09:15PM by Culthusiast.

Ever the scam artist- Butler makes his moves - again.

Tulsi Gabbard surfaces with new orders from Don Chris Butler.

Quote:"It indicates that she plans to be politically active going forward,” he said. “If she just wanted to give away the remaining money in her campaign account she could have done that without converting it into a nonconnected committee.”

This kind of move is common for former candidates, and here’s why: A leadership PAC doesn’t have the same fundraising and donation restrictions as a campaign committee. Tulsi Now could only raise $2,800 from individuals for each election in which Gabbard was a candidate, including primary and general elections. Tulsi Aloha will be able to raise $5,000 per year from individuals, other PACs or political party committees regardless of whether or not Gabbard is running for office.

That’s important because Gabbard was recently warned by the FEC she was violating election rules by continuing to take in money after dropping out of the race in March, following a series of poor showings in primaries and caucuses around the country.

In April and May, the campaign emailed Gabbard supporters asking them to buy excess merchandise, such as shirts, stickers and hoodies, to help raise money for coronavirus relief efforts.

In June, FEC records show Gabbard donated about $4,400 to Direct Relief and the Semper Fi & America’s Fund, two nonprofits the campaign previously named as recipients of the donation drive proceeds. That same month, the FEC sent Gabbard’s campaign a letter notifying it that those fundraising efforts were not permitted because she had suspended her presidential campaign on March 19 and endorsed former Vice President Joe Biden.

“Primary election contributions made after the date of the announcement must be refunded,” the letter noted. “Please inform the Commission of your corrective action immediately in writing and provide photocopies of any refund checks.”

1) So- did she actually return all the monies donated -after her announcement to leave the campaign- back to her clueless supporters, or did the $$$ (like all funds) stay in the pockets of Butler?

2) Changing into a PAC- in 'Butler Speak' means Tulsi and Butler can money launder even more $$$ thru his cult followers- instead of a limit of $2800, they can now launder $5,000 each.

[www.civilbeat.org]


More to follow.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> “Primary election contributions made after the
> date of the announcement must be refunded,” the
> letter noted. “Please inform the Commission of
> your corrective action immediately in writing and
> provide photocopies of any refund checks[/i].”

Ooops..

World Savior unlawful behaviour

>
> 1) So- did she actually return all the monies
> donated -after her announcement to leave the
> campaign- back to her clueless supporters, or did
> the $$$

[www.youtube.com]

>
>
> More to follow.

Na-na-na-na, can't stop this...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2020 05:40AM by Culthusiast.

Hey Vox, sounds like a classic cult move with the whole Aloha Cult fund.

Hansen, I think what can be done is to be more specific on what you see. I see a ton of young people, teens, sitting in taped footage kirtans with expressions of "shoot me now" in thier faces. I see butler using initiation as a tactic to get donations and those donations to go to things like Aloha Tulsi fund to be untraceable or less scrutinized. Cause at the end they offer thier religious ideas freely, so it's the donation part that is required by initiated disciples. Obviously the whole religion is a hack, but if it makes people happy, keep chanting.

I enjoyed your observation about the devotees mimicking accents and closing their eyes and swaying when they talk and all that stuff. Complete sham. I recall many western gurus adopting indian accents of bhaktivedanta and all that stuff. Just blind following blind, copy cat. Like little kids imitating adults.

Speak up. That's what you can do to expose them and break the whole thing down. Talk about real things you see that are illegal or a total scam. People are online. They research and look into things. Eventually the red flags about butler are undeniable. Just a matter of fear or denial at a certain point.