National Geographic is not renowned for being an activist magazine.

But NG achieved a hard-hitting article describing the predicament of India's untouchables.

A few choice quotes from the 7-page article

[ngm.nationalgeographic.com]

Quote

Bairwa decided to bathe in the village pond, off-limits to Untouchables. That evening a mob surrounded his house and threatened to kill him. Bairwa filed reports with the police and a human rights organization. Now he never travels alone for fear of attack. Bairwa expects that because of his legal challenge the pond will eventually become open to all castes. In the meantime he fights quietly and lives the only way he can. "I am clean. I don't smoke or drink or eat meat. I work hard. I do everything right. Why am I Untouchable?"

Because he was born one. One hundred sixty million Indians serve this life sentence.

Quote

But for all the laws and regulations on the books, the hard heart of caste remains unmoved. There are 160 million Untouchables in India—a country that trumpets itself as a model for developing nations: the world's most populous democracy, a modern power outfitted with software industries, communication satellites, and plants for making nuclear energy and nuclear bombs. During the winter I spent in India, hardly a day passed that I didn't hear or read of acid thrown in a boy's face, or a wife raped in front of her husband, or some other act whose provocation was simply that an Untouchable didn't know his or her place.

Quote

The Hindu caste system has its own instruction manual. The Laws of Manu, compiled at least 2,000 years ago by Brahman priests, prescribes for each varna what to eat, whom to marry, how to earn money, when to fight, how to keep clean, whom to avoid. "Manu is engraved inside every Hindu," said Umashankar Tripathy, a Brahman priest I met in Varanasi, the revered pilgrimage city located on the banks of the Ganges River. Tripathy sat cross-legged on a straw mat in the temple where he teaches. He wore the traditional dhoti, a long loincloth with a tunic buttoned over it. His clothes were spotless, his hands as soft as fine leather gloves.

Tripathy hews to the words of Manu. He explained that as a Brahman he must uphold the code of purity, the basis for dividing society from top to bottom. "I do not eat meat or drink alcohol. I will not eat vegetables like ginger or onion that are grown in the ground. My mind should be as clean as my clothes."

(Corboy: The Hare Krishnas, the sect in which Butler got his training, also
utlise the Law of Manu. [www.google.com])

A proper Brahman should never come in contact with an Untouchable, Tripathy instructed. "A Brahman wouldn't even touch the feet of Gandhi," he said, referring to the deified leader of India's independence. "Gandhi was a Vaisya; Brahmans are superior."

Quote

To identify potential activists in Untouchable villages, Macwan has a simple test: "I look for anger." What ignites the anger is usually an act of violence, witnessing it or suffering it. In recent years the reported cases of caste-based violence against Untouchables have risen as much as 25 to 30 percent in states like Bihar and Tamil Nadu, where large Untouchable populations live. Community activists see the surge in violence as a direct response to the new assertiveness of Untouchables. They also contend that the official numbers fail to represent the true extent of the violence, since only a small fraction of the crimes against Untouchables are reported, and fewer are investigated by the police.

There was anger—along with fear and helplessness—in the faces of the crime victims I met. In a farm shed in Rajasthan, where he was hiding with his family, Laxman Singh described how friends and relatives of the village council president beat him one night with stones and iron rods and "left me for dead." He lost both legs to gangrene after lying untreated on a hospital floor for three days. His offense: filing a complaint with police after being denied wages for construction work he did on the council president's home.

This is very different from the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence -- the secular mission statement for the
United States of America.

Quote

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

This was written by a man who profited from owning slaves and exacting every bit of effort from them.

And today, thanks to the USA remaining an open society, we are capable of recognizing that Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, was no infallible God, no saint, not even an avatar, but a fallible human being.

Jefferson failed to live up to the full implications of the Declaration of Independence.

It remains for us to answer that challenge.

And for us to choose elected officials who, when asked to choose, will be guided by Declaration of Independence -- not the documents which justify the Hindu caste system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2015 06:40AM by corboy.

Pam Ho wrote:
Dab, you speak as if it makes sense for Tulsi to get close to ISKCON in order to gain donors and power among Hindus, but you don't know the real story.

It still make sense, but that's not the issue regarding Tulsi in this forum -- it is about who she really represents. All the details you talked about don't matter much, and I don't understand what is your purpose of speaking on behalf of Tulsi. Who she represents is what this forum is exposing -- that it is the right of every constituent to know, because they are the actual power broker here, not ISKCON nor his crazy gurudev.

Her political strategy is very deceptive. The fact that you seem very impressed with her means that it works. True, she's very popular in India, but the Hawaiians are not stupid. She got away the first time, this forum will do everything we could collectively that all the smokescreens get cleared away before the next election to help voters make informed decision. She knows this forum is doing well, I'm sure she needs all the spins blah blah blah about ISKCON, Hindus, bollywood connections ... frankly, they don't matter now. The media are starting to notice. The only "real story" here is her deception. That's all.

Nice try, though.

Step right up folks, deep from the interwebzzz probably not meant for mass distribution much like her shout outs to her Guru Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda Orsomeshitlikedatananda, Comes this super clean new cut from Tulsi Gabbard.

---A culty brainwashy freak show meant for ISKCON EYES ONLY---

Could you imagine this playing on repeat in Hawaii during the evening news?

Tulsi, drop a little of this good stuff next time you are on MSNBC and see how fast they call you back in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7Zfyn-Xns

Big shout outs to my boy Harsha "Harry" Brennan for e-mailing me this dope jam that he lent his dope ass production skillz to. One love, Harsha baby! Yeah boi!

Just try to find this video without this link... cannot be done.

Rama- incredible find!
You are correct Rama- this is an unlisted video!
Not meant for the world to see.
Let’s sprinkle this one all over the place, shall we?


[www.youtube.com]

did Tulsi just try to redefine what Krishna is?

unbelievable. that video is as creepy as it can get.

it really sounds like the rhetoric Chris Butler and the SOI "philosophy"
would repeat day in and day out.
"we are one" but in reality you are being brainwashed.
classic case of Loading the Language.
Loading the Language

A cultic group often uses its own complex vocabulary. Words carry with them entire packages of implications, emotions, metaphors, and even past experiences. Cults invent new words and phrases that carry with them much more complicated understandings, or they manipulate existing words to change their meanings subtly or dramatically.

Loaded language serves several purposes:

1. Relabels or redefines meanings
2. Shuts down critical thinking ability
3. Further isolates the group, making it difficult to communicate with outsiders

Concepts can be relabeled with emotionally charged words which carry preconceived notions. These can be used to make something seem automatically positive and impossible to argue against, or inherently negative -- impossible to argue for

Why do people here automatically think there is a conspiracy of some sort or another if people just disagree with you? I mean you speak in such declarative sentences, like: This is what this person is really doing; this is what this really is all about; this is etc. It is one thing to have a speculative opinion, it is another to insist that any other opinion is automatically wrong and your speculative opinion is the only one that counts because you believe the worst of all Hare Krishnas, and especially anyone connected in any way to Butler. I am not connected to any of them, I have no dog in this fight, but because I disagree with one or more of the many opinions here I guess am a bad person with bad intentions, just because you cannot possibly me mistaken.

I try to look at things in a more neutral point of view, i.e. give people a benefit of the doubt just like you or I would like to have people give us. I was trying to be helpful by clearing up mistakes you guys make, which you make quite often on various details simply because you don't know everything, nothing wrong with that - but know your limitations, know the difference between facts and speculations, and don't look at everyone who points out mistakes as part of some devious conspiracy to promote some hidden agenda.

That is another thing I think some of you don't understand about Butler and his group, they have no hidden agenda, they are open with what they want - and so is Tulsi. Tulsi is open with her Krishna conscious connections; Butler tells everything you need to know on his website or his literature, etc. What is it that you think is hidden about their agenda? Like a lot of people devoted to a religion, they want to share that with others, that is what Christians are especially known for, and so are Hare Krishnas.

Another bone I have to pick is claiming they are not Hindu. What do they do that Hindus do not do? What you seem to get wrong is not knowing just how much most Hindu sects are cult like, that is the nature of most Hindu sects because of the nature of guru worship in Hinduism. If you go to India you will see that the biggest religious organizations are guru cults, it has been like that for years. Satya Sai Baba was the biggest for a long time, now it is a bunch of others, but what they have in common with Butler and ISKCON and countless other Hindus, (not all, there are Hindu sects which are less guru-centric) is that they are personality cults in the view of the western religious mentality. You see Butler and ISKCON as non-Hindu cults, that is simply not true, they are cults, but very Hindu, as are the thousands of other guru cults which comprise the majority of Hinduism.

Sometime people say that Bhaktivedanta and Butler claim they are not Hindu, but that is taken out of context. They say that when they are making a point about the word and concept of "Hinduism" being something foreign, of it being something not part of the Hindu teachings, i.e. the concept of Hinduism was created by the British, previous to that word, which is an English word, the word Hindu meant someone from Hindustan, the Persian word for India, meaning land of the Indus, or Land of the River, because Hindu is the old Persian word for the Sanskrit Sindhu, which means river or the Indus. When the British conquered India they lumped all the indigenous religions under the rubric of Hinduism, whereas before the Hindus or residents of Hindustan referred to each other by various other names: Vaishnava or Shaivite, Shakta or Vedantin, Aryan or followers of Dharma, etc. That was what Bhaktivedanta and Butler who followed his lead taught when they said they were not teaching Hinduism - no one teaches Hinduism except schools teaching courses on Hinduism. In India they teach Vedanta, Yoga, Sankyha, Bhakti, Shaivism, etc.

If you want to be taken serious you should try to learn a bit more about what you are criticizing, otherwise people who do know these things will think you are just clueless about everything you say.

The recent exposure of Tulsi’s video shows quite clearly as Jaggedguru points out-
just how deep that brainwashing goes- how deeply Tulsi is immeshed in this cult.
All those loaded words- "we are one"- no, that is not true because in Butler’s cult, Butler was better than all of them and 2nd in line to the throne- Wai Lana will always be superior to one and all. Followed closely by the inner circle.

All those following this cult, I ask you, do you see brotherly love here- to you see concern for those who are not faring so well in this world?
Is there any hint of generosity and caring for the suffering people?
Where is Fearless Leader?
Why is he not preaching in public and donating his millions to alleviate suffering? Oh, wait!! He tells all, that it is their Karma.
Right- that really helps, doesn’t it.
I put forth to you that in Butler’s hand, karma is merely a tool to control and instill fear and obedience.

Jagged Guru, I shall play Cult Member's Advocate here...

WHY in the name of KHRIST(na) would we EVER want to communicate with outsiders?

LOLzzz all day, #cultfail #ni---please ha ha ha ha

My suggestion as a board user on how to keep this discussion
readable as possible for voters and journalists:

Starting now, let us keep this discussion thread
tightly focused on these topics:

* Chris Butler

* Key players in Butler's organization

* Cash flow

* Tulsi Gabbard and whether members of the Butler
group are chosen as her advisors and staff
members.

Child Welfare

* Children born to Butler's disciples who have
been sent to the Butler school in the
Philippines.

* First hand descriptions by persons who have left
Butler's group and must fend for themselves in the
outside world.


Meanwhile I have started another discussion thread for ISKON
and its break away sects.

Now, back to the discussion of Chris Butler.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2015 05:40AM by corboy.

Pam Ho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do people here automatically think there is a
> conspiracy of some sort or another if people just
> disagree with you?

Pam Ho,

You’re welcome to disagree. We always disagree with one another here, this is what public forum is all about.

What we don’t disagree about is the precepts of this site, forum and this thread. Rick Ross, founder-owner of Cult Education Institute provided definitions and conditions of what a cult is. [culteducation.com]

The forum is about "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The subject (thread) is Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

Testimonies are from ex-followers, people born into it, cult experts/enthusiasts or people who are simply curious or care about cults. All have already established about the destructive nature of the above particular cult.

Of course you can disagree but do not expect not to get argued back. Your precepts are mistaken, your purview goes back to the ancient times when Hindu beliefs were evolving. Unfortunately, that’s too far back for anybody here to bother to get into. We’re dealing with the "more recent" creation and the destructions it poses to unsuspecting recruit or believer and to society at large (in case of Tulsi). Our aim is to help clear those smokescreens by sharing our experiences, knowledge and opinions.

No one here I’m sure is interested in legitimizing the claims and methods by this group, Science of Identity, whether they are Hindus or not; hidden or open or they originated from India or Timbuktu. Those debates have long been decided over with. If you’re coming here with an agenda to whitewash their dirty laundry, save your detergent; better speak with those who were born into this cult and learn how dirty to the core, callous and manipulative this group is, especially their crazy gurudev. It ain't gonna work, Pam.