flashlight_on_roaches Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tulsi Gabbard’s Conehead strategy was not
> working in spite of her
> [url=https://flashlightonroaches.wordpress.com/201
> 5/04/14/tulsi-gabbard-weds-cult-member/]Bollywood
> attempts to portray herself as a Hindu (We are
> Hindus, We are from France)[/url]
>
> So what does her infallible master, Chris Butler,
> do in order to address concerns that Tulsi is a
> member of a secretive cult? Why, he orders her to
> rewrite her biography again and this time claiming
> membership in an even bigger cult, ISKCON.
>
> [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard]T
> his is her biography updated with that recent
> claim:[/url]
>
> [i]“…She is a vegetarian and a Hindu who
> follows Gaudiya Vaishnavism, a religious movement
> brought to the United States in the 1960s by AC
> Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada under the name
> [b]ISKCON (International Society for Krishna
> Consciousness), also known as the Hare Krishna
> movement[/b]…”[/i]
>
> Why is Chris Butler suddenly playing nice-nice
> with ISKCON when he actually has a very long and
> public record of hating these folks (and vice
> versa)? I can’t imagine that Tulsi objected or
> even knows much about the history of the Hare
> Krishnas. However, this latest admission will
> weigh her down like an anchor. ISKCON, like
> Butler’s own cult Science of Identity Foundation
> (SOI) have many abuses and questionable practices
> to answer for including drug-dealing convictions.
>

> Flash

Hi, everyone, new here, that wikipedia edit, I just looked at it, and it has been there since Feb 9 2014, this is when it first appeared: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tulsi_Gabbard&diff=594631048&oldid=594630514[/url]

On that day there were 4 edits by the same person, first just adding Hare Krishna, and then adding ISKCON and Bhaktivedanta Swami, the person who added it is [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Marklorange[/url]

Mark Lorange also:

Has an account at an ISKCON site:
[url]http://www.mayapur.tv/ibg/member.php?u=370[/url]

He lived in Chicago
[url]http://www.mayapur.tv/ibg/memberlist.php?ltr=M&pp=30&sort=username&order=asc[/url]

And with a bit more snooping we can conclude he is or was indeed an ISKCON member, or at least closely connected with them, since he is or was the tech guy for the website for one of their places:
[url]http://www.ipgeni.com/whois/rvc.edu[/url]

Technical Contact:
Mark Lorange
webmaster
Rupanuga Vedic College
5201 Paseo
Kansas City, MO 64110
UNITED STATES
(816) 924-5619
[email]marklorange@hotmail.com[/email]

This is the website
[url]http://rvc.edu/[/url]

There is more stuff, not much, mostly nothing, though he does have a mostly empty Google+ page and is in the same circles as an ISKCON leader, [url]https://plus.google.com/113632909802219984850/posts[/url].

Point being - his edit on Tulsi's Wikipedia bio was advertising for ISKCON, not Butler or Tulsi trying to connect themselves to ISKCON.

Pam,
It does not matter who made the entry as it has already been publicly established, by her own admission, that Tulsi is connected to both ISKCON and Butler.
Additionally, Mike Gabbard claimed copy rights on a letter proving his connections to ISKCON and Butler.
Flash has presented enough evidence to prove this.

No matter how much SOI may try to split hairs, theirs is the same philosophy as ISKCON in different disguises. Butler can't have it both ways. He can't simultaneously be a part of and separate from ISKCON and their philosophy.

The reason, in my opinion, for Tulsi "coming out" now is for fundraising and political purposes. Also because she can no longer lie by omission or cover the story up because of this forum and other critical blogs and videos (Flash , Rama , Dabcult, and Eigener Herr).

Dabcult makes a good point about how the wealthy Indians are gravitating to the newer, cleaner, more glamourous ISKCON temples in India These wealthy Indians support Tulsi's campaigns and political aspirations.

The author of the Wikipedia entry has no bearing on the abuses and questionable practices of both ISKCON or Butler's organization and followers.

Absolutely correct Vera City.
Both Butler and ISKCON are responsible for much suffering & abuse among their devotees that has occurred (is occurring) in their mutual quest for more power, glory and control.

Its only about money, after all.....

Clearly it matters to the person who I commented to. I don't think it is correct to say that Tulsi and Butler are cozying up to ISKCON all of a sudden. That has been going on for closer to 20 years when Butler's people were integral to the creation of this semi-organization, http://www.wva-vvrs.org/

The World Vaishnava Association was an attempt by Butlers people and some others to create an worldwide umbrella organization of all the various Krishna groups, including ISKCON groups. They started a news site as well Vina.cc. But as you can see from the WVa site, it is really old and nothing new has been done on since the over 10 years. This is because it never took off, all the various groups thought it was a good idea and they had conclaves for a few years, then is died out as people lost interest and spent their time on their own groups. Their news site was taken over by another guru and his group, as Butler's group declined in activity and the other guru thrived, the news site is now used to promote Vrnda guru Paramadvaiti Swami, http://vrindaportal.com/. He is an ex-ISKCON guy who left and started his own thing, he has a really big organization, dwarfs anything Butler ever did, but is almost exclusively in spanish and portuguese speaking countries in Latin America (where he used to lead for ISKCON), as well as some other European countries. His group has many temples and ashrams, and has taken over the WVA and the Vina news site to promote him.

But the origin of it had a lot to do with Butler wanting to get closer to the rest of the Hare Krishna groups, that was 20 years ago when he started to do that. The recent things Tulsi has done with ISKCON is simply because when it comes to Gaudiya Vaishnavism (Hare Krishna) in India, there is ISKCON and there is everyone else, ISKCON dwarfs all else and have many high profile projects and so on. Even the Clintons are connected to ISKCON,there are videos on youtube of Bill visiting food distribution centers which his foundation donates to, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bill+Clinton++Akshaya+Patra

Things are not always what they seem to you without knowing the full story. Tulsi is not making a closer connection to ISKCON for some reason other than that is where she gets a lot of support because they all know she is basically one of their ow. Tulsi has a lot of power and publicity, publicity, publicity (did I mention publicity) to offer them, so it is they who are pursuing her. They are ones trying to get close to her, not the other way around. Why in the world would you think it she or Butler who would think it would help her to get close to ISKCON? She is already perceived as the only Hindu in American government by Hindus, she doesn't need anything else to get their support, she had it from the get go.

Thats a good important point made by Vera ....
Its simple ...If Butler does not link himself to Iskcon and keep saying
I am separate from ISKCON then
he is but a little crasy Hawaii cult ...
But now linking herself with ISKCON...make Tulsi looks like she is representing
ISKCON and can go after the big donations that some HINDUS are capable of giving her ...She can claim to be in the same category as ALFRED FORD (there is a video of his going to collect money from Hindus in South africa ...and he boast that he collected 4 million dollrs in a few weeks time ...Tulsi is under a microscope now
SOI cannot keep collecting from drug dealers and distribute padded envelops to donors that we know have but little or no money (especially after there 25% is regularly given )...But just a few of those diamonds Hindu dealers or Hindu industry power brokers can finance anything ...What is the richest and most visited temple or church in the entire world ...No its not the VATICAN ...its TIRUPATI in South India
I was there a few years ago ...you have to waith in line for 8 hours to get to see the IDOL ...and then you can look for only a few seconds and you get push away
then you see in the back of the temple ..a hundred people counting money 24/7
people give sometime all their jewlary ...and a few years ago a rich guy gave hundreds of pound of gold and left it at the door of the temple ..because he got a blessing from the IDOL ...These are people that have given millions to build the Bangalore temple of ISKCON ...now they are building a new one in Bangalore and Mayapur and the tallest temple in India in Mathura ..
Naturally TULSI will not say I hate ISKCON ...I belong to a small ex surfer cult who was banish by Swami Bhaktivedanta ..for selling the Honolulu temple
and abandoning the TULASI plants ...She want and Butler wants her to be standing right behind Alfred Ford (even if he is a proven homosexual...and my sources confirm that )I am sure homophobic Butler will not mind Tulsi
associating with the homosexual and pedophiles like Charle Bacies ...who is the art director for Mayapur ...Tulsi as said that she wants to run for Vice president of the USA ...Folks it all about MONEY MONEY MONEY..powers powers powers...its facinating and its frightening

To Pam Ho,

First of, by definition and practice, cult is bad; let’s get that out of the way. Secondly, the Hare Krishna belief (ISKCON, Science of Identity or Gaudiya Vaishnava) is a cult; and lastly, the Krishna story is a myth; not just a myth, but a proven effective political tool, which aim is to sustain the superiority of Brahmin minority over the Dalit masses. How does that translate outside the caste system? Cloaked as a non-threatening “way of life”, “yoga”, or “healthy lifestyle”, it legitimizes the age-old cancer that India as a whole suffers from to whoever (group, culture or society) adopt it as a belief system.

The Dalits (untouchables), almost unarguably have the lowest status in all of the human societies. From birth, they are supposed to accept wholeheartedly the fate of a slave in order to have a chance of a better status in the next life; that the status is the cause of their karma. To quibble with the divine dogma is to be reborn as a Dalit again or lower.

About Krishna. Just as the modern society gets to unravel the mysteries of our past due to better methodology, tools and documentation, we begin to separate facts from fictions. Just as we know now the origin of and the politics behind the curation of the Bible, before it was declared “Holy”, the same is being unravelled in regards to the Bhagavad Gita. It was not spoken 5,000 years ago, was not written by the first man nor came from God; it is a late addition to the Mahabharatha, to reinvent Brahmanism in order to salvage it from Buddhism that exposed the evil and politics of the caste system. It has been extrapolated and interpolated numerous times to fit into the woven fabric of Hindu society and it’s many sects like the Gaudiya Vaishnava. The original text still exists, so are the earlier versions. The earlier Mahabharatha has got nothing to do with Arjuna, let alone Krishna. The original Gita has only 84 verses as against 700 for the new. The similarities between the Battle of Karukhsetra and the historical Kalinga War are so stark, so is the warrior Arjuna with the historical Buddhist warrior Ashoka.

The damage done to India by caste system is incalculable: There are millions of child slaves in India; stricken parents have no choice but to sell their loved children to bondage (worse for girls, as sex slaves); the violence and lack of opportunity in life the Dalits face everyday are all due to caste system; and this has been going on for over three thousand years, with no sign of it ever going.
[darkindia.wordpress.com]

Unlike religion, modern society does not claim to hold the Truth, but no doubt our collective eagerness to know unwittingly debunks superstition and mysteries believers hold so dearly, as Absolute Truth or as a moral compass. It can be argued that religion do help make moral an individual, a group, or even a society. But it is also a fact that when one embraces a certain belief, the tendency is to demonize other beliefs or those who simply disagree as enemies or evil.

Before you go for yoga meditation, arotik, kirtan and fancy retreats, step back and think what does your core belief really support and represent. If a believer could see clearly and acknowledges beyond doubt that his/her belief system helps sustain oppression to certain groups such as the Dalits, the women, the blacks and the gays, whatever sincerity and sacrifice invested are simply laid waste.

To conclude, what Tulsi represents as far as ex-followers are concerned which they (SFI) has been trying to bring into government, long before she was born is tyranny. Much like the Brahmins were to the Dalits and the ISKCONs to the gurukulis. We may not refer to the Dalits now, but if you read back from the copious documented pages in this forum, you’ll learn what kind of tyrant her gurudev really is. IMHO.

Sources:
The Gita As It Was: Rediscovering the Original Bhagavadgita

[www.amazon.ca]

[www.sakshitimes.net]

THE UNTOLD STORY OF THE BHAGAVAD GITA

[secretbhagavadgita.wordpress.com]

[dharmakamata.blogspot.ca]


Aum Beep Beep
THE STORY OF HINDUISM

[www.aumbeepbeep.com]

The young Sai. He must have hated this: being forced to shave his head and carry a danda, haha.




Interesting stories about the early hare krishnas in Hawaii:
As we sat singing Hare Krishna on the beach, the other youths began to timidly join in. A dozen or more youths sat in cross-legged yoga postures, in a wide oblong-circle. Ti leaves, used for luau plates, were placed in front of each one. All were yoga students and disciples of the young man named “Sai.” Though only twenty-something years old, Sai was a well-known yoga meditation teacher in the Islands. He had many admirers, and followers, and an ashram at Sunset Beach, as well as a three-acre farm ashram on Maui. We had heard much about him, and first met him when he came to our tent at the Sunshine Pleasure Fair/Crater Festival.

[www.govindadasi.com]

Dab, you speak as if it makes sense for Tulsi to get close to ISKCON in order to gain donors and power among Hindus, but you don't know the real story.

First off lets talk about her popularity among Hindus and Hindu donors: when she was elected the first time it was immediately reported all over Indian media that the first Hindu was elected to the American government leadership. No connection other than being a generic Hindu was spoken of by most of the Indian media - and she became an instant celebrity hero to Hindus the world over, ever since she needs no help from anyone in getting support from "big Hindu donors."

Secondly let us look at her connection to ISKCON: Outside of India and the Hindu diaspora ISKCON is seen as either 1) a complete unknown; 2) a tiny Hindu cult; 3) a weird and dangerous cult of some unknown offshoot of Hinduism; 4) A major part of the yoga and kirtan scene run by super devote Hindu converts; 5) A place for the Hindu diaspora to practice their religion (this is how the Hindu diaspora sees them, but also the general public in a few places, mainly in England where ISKCON is seen as synonymous with the large Hindu minority by many people more so then other places, also in a few other places with large Hindu minorities - Fiji; Africa; etc.).

Why would Tulsi want to get close to ISKCON? She already has the Hindus in her grasp, and to the rest of the world outside of the new age, yoga, and hippie kirtan scene, or of educated religious scholars - most everyone else has a bad image of ISKCON as some weird cult.

So what reason would she have to get close to ISKCON? The only important group of people that would be impressed are the people already impressed with her - Hindus. The hippie new age and yoga scenesters are not into politics; religious scholars are tiny number; and the rest of everyone would if anything look askew at anyone connected to what they perceive as a weird cult.

What you are seeing with Tulsi's very few connections with ISKCON events or ISKCON people is being pushed by ISKCON - they want to be associated with her because she brings publicity for them, which in India they thrive get a lot of already, but they have enemies there from the large anti-Hindu coalition (which is a big faction in India, mostly Muslims and non-religious born Hindus, and Christian missionary organizations who seek to convert Hindus). They are pushing it because what she gains she already has, i.e. wide respect with Hindus and non-Hindus, ISKCON only has respect among the Hindus, and even then only a certain percentage, which while because of the size of the Hindu population is a lot (in the tens of millions), but only a fraction of the Hindu population as a whole. They have much more support among the media, politicians, corporations, Bollywood, and diaspora then is commensurate with their support among the Hindu masses.

That lopsided popularity gives a skewed vision of their place in India, it looks like they are much more popular then they are because they are popular among the popular people and media, but among the masses of rural India and poor in the cities, they are simply not part of their lives except where their children are fed by the various school lunch programs ISKCON dominates in India - due to their political connections and superior technology. ISKCON wants to change that, they want to become a more integral part of the masses, which Tulsi has already done because of the massive media reporting on her as the only Hindu in American government - that is a really big deal in India. America is like the Roman empire to them, and one of their own is a leader of the empire. That is how they see her. As one of their own leading the world. ISKCON wants to be associated with her - she doesn't need them one bit.

Dharmabum, thank you so much your post above is absolutely comprehensive on the PHILOSOPHY, this foundational philosophy is the root cause of the absolute destruction of my family unit. The abuse and abandonment, the fact that I have no family to support me, no family that helped my create a prosperous or stable life for myself has in turn made me the end of my personal lineage.

I have nothing but struggle, uncertainty and no greater family to offer a potential son or daughter, I choose to just take care of myself.

These circumstances are directly the result of the fundamental dehumanizing philosophy drilled into my family and it boggles my mind to think how different my life and my family would be had we never ever been cursed with this disgusting and destructive mentality.

I would have friends and family, I would probably still have a living father, I would certainly have my mother and most of all I should have always had a little brother. We should have been partners in crime for the past two decades and we should be "like brothers".

I would have education, I would have had the opportunity to carry on my fathers businesses.

Instead I have the long since destroyed rubble of all this haunting me like phantoms for the rest of my days, that like I said above, are likely the end of my personal genetic lineage.

Hare Krishna, I despise the false god and his legions of abusive gurus and deluded devotees with every ounce of my eternal soul, may my suffering be fair warning to anybody who reads my words.

Outstanding summation, Dharmabum!


Quote: "Unlike religion, modern society does not claim to hold the Truth, but no doubt our collective eagerness to know unwittingly debunks superstition and mysteries believers hold so dearly, as Absolute Truth or as a moral compass. It can be argued that religion do help make moral an individual, a group, or even a society. But it is also a fact that when one embraces a certain belief, the tendency is to demonize other beliefs or those who simply disagree as enemies or evil.

Before you go for yoga meditation, arotik, kirtan and fancy retreats, step back and think what does your core belief really support and represent. If a believer could see clearly and acknowledges beyond doubt that his/her belief system helps sustain oppression to certain groups such as the Dalits, the women, the blacks and the gays, whatever sincerity and sacrifice invested are simply laid waste.

To conclude, what Tulsi represents as far as ex-followers are concerned which they (SFI) has been trying to bring into government, long before she was born is tyranny. Much like the Brahmins were to the Dalits and the ISKCONs to the gurukulis. We may not refer to the Dalits now, but if you read back from the copious documented pages in this forum, you’ll learn what kind of tyrant her gurudev really is. IMHO.” End quote

No truer word were ever spoken especially in regards to this insidious cult of Butler:
Quote: “If a believer could see clearly and acknowledges beyond doubt that his/her belief system helps sustain oppression to certain groups such as the Dalits, the women, the blacks and the gays,[children, Karmis, etc.] whatever sincerity and sacrifice invested are simply laid waste.” End quote.

Perhaps this can also be applied to most major religions of the world, witness the carnage which accompanies the mantra of “my gOd is better than your gOd”.
And oh my, they do like to amass vast amounts of money, don’t they?

How in the world, can any of this materialism, abuse, intolerance and bigotry pass for spirituality?

It doesn’t.
And it never will.