Carl Fig wrote:

Quote

In the 1970s on Kauai, I heard Siddha telling a group that the best a woman could hope for in this lifetime was to be reincarnated next lifetime as a man.
So I was pretty surprised to hear there are now females being declared pure devotees.
What brought about that change?

Corboy:

What year did Butler begin declaring females to be 'pure devoteess'?

Can offer this much: more ladies participate in yoga than gents.

[www.google.com]

Discourage ladies and you discourage most of your potential recruitment pool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2015 05:48AM by corboy.

Carl Fig wrote:
In the 1970s on Kauai, I heard Siddha telling a group that the best a woman could hope for in this lifetime was to be reincarnated next lifetime as a man.
So I was pretty surprised to hear there are now females being declared pure devotees.
What brought about that change?

If you’re a hardcore, the “I am not the body” applies — you become an honorary Brahmin and all the privileges that come with it. If you’re a fringe, and you have not much to give, you’re like a Dalit, you must accept your karma or work your way out by becoming a hardcore.

In the 70s they thought they’re going to be big, but Siddha was such a lousy preacher and he’s got mostly brainless hippies as sidekicks; the women proved to be useful, of course he would adjust — desperate measure, desperate time. I doubt if that’s permanent. Now they’ve started palling with Isckons and the mayavadis, and the gays, haha. Rules can loosely apply if they need be, but Caste system is still there, it is one of the foundational truths of Krishna, in fact thats why the Gita is said to have been inserted into Mahabharatha — to reinvent Brahmanism and wrest the power back from Buddhism, that became the more popular and the ruling theocracy for 600 years at that time.

The only reason I’m bringing in Hinduism is because that’s what Tulsi claims she is. Maybe the larger America is clueless about Hinduism, or perhaps she is. If we are shell shocked to what the Talibans could do, the Hindutvas are worse.

I remember her fans mocking Bobby Jindal for converting to the “uncool” Catholicism:

Tulsi Gabbard shows Bobby Jindal it’s cool to be Hindu

[www.firstpost.com]


I doubt if Tulsi has any idea what are the core beliefs of Hinduism. Any thinking person wouldn’t touch that religion. I think she’s better off just admitting she’s a member of that Science of Identity. It’s like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

And yet, despite its sophistication, the Manusmriti contains within itself a set of the most vile and barbaric of social laws, invented to keep the Brahmins at the top and the Shudras very firmly at the bottom. It then seeks to attribute these laws to god. This, my child, is perhaps Hinduism’s biggest shame. Not only are the laws themselves shameful but their confirmation in subsequent scriptures as having a divine source, even though the Brahmin writers of the rules were fully aware of their oppressive purpose, takes the concept of shame to galactic levels. The main purpose of the Smriti was to maintain social order by rigidly enforcing the caste rules made up by the Brahmins.

VIPUL TRIVEDI

Fair Use modified photograph of Chris Butler aka Sai

…or, should I say Secret So “Sai” Eties?
The CE Forum has once again veered off course and into a discussion of religion. It is my opinion that The Science of Identity Foundation (the cult of Chris Butler) should not be dignified with the term “religion”.

Please consider this group as a more sinister organization, perhaps even as a criminal conspiracy. As I publish more about Tulsi Gabbard’s team and their political shenanigans, their obvious defense of “religious freedom” needs to be seen as a smoke screen.

The cult is the creation of Chris Butler, invented in the same manner as one creates a Ponzi scheme. The lazy dog, Butler (Sai in those days), was able to convince a group of social misfits that he possessed the secrets of the universe.




The upper right photo is of Kathy Hoshijo aka Katyayani. She was given the title of “pure devotee” by Butler. They later had a falling out when she started taking disciples of her own. Vera City. Flash is now of the opinion that Katyayani runs a separate cell for her guru, Chris Butler, as if they were terrorists. Kathy Hoshijo was the first “Tulsi Gabbard”.

The article continues with many informative links:

Flash

As far as the video .."The children of the Hare Krishna "
This is one of the saddest video out there on the plight of the ex students
of the Krishna schools ...I know many of the participants of this video personally
The truth is that
It as now been proven that Swami Bhaktivedanta ..knew exactly and for sure that the children where abuse in his gurukulas ...A pedophile that had abuse most kids in Vrindavan India
was brought to him at the Kumba Mela in Allahabad in 1977 for punishment ...
Swami Bhaktivedanta told him to leave the mouvement ...and did absolutly nothing to help the kids .
He knew that if the Indian newspapers would have found out that his schools where crawling with pedophiles ...it would have been a scandal of enormous proportion...He just wanted to keep things quiet ......and did not offer any psychological help to the kids (he did not believe in psychology anyway ...the only remedy was chanting and more chanting ) and to add insult to injury ....he said that the pedophile in question could come back on sunday feast in Hare krishna temples to eat some prasadam ...this pedophile found his way back in ISKCON eventually after the death of Swami Bhaktivedanta and molested more kids
Now Chris Butler was very quick to call himself the NEW PRABHUPAD ...THE NEW PURE DEVOTEE ..making believe that he was he new improve version of his master
The present Theology of Butler depend on the him being a pure representative
of his own guru ...But for those of us that have now look closely at the teachings of Swami Bhaktivedanta a lot of it is not only total bullshit ...but a lot of it is just plain ignorance and even criminal like not coming to the rescue of those children...(25 plus have now committed suicides)I remember the times when me and Butler then (Siddhasarup) would bow down flat on the floor of the Los angeles temple worshipping "Swami Bhaktivedanta
How to tell and convince the disciples of Butler that the guru of their guru was in many ways crasy and a crook ...and that therefore Butler is even more crasy and even more a crook ......Its brainwashing at its best
I drank the KOOL AID for many years ...before the deprogramming kick in
and I know many of my old friends in the Hare Krishna that I met in 1969 ...and the 1970 ies ....that are still drinking the cool aids ...with no end in sight
and many like my old friend Madhuvisa who died last year ...are dying thinking that they are about to be transfer to the planet of the blue God ..its beyond comprehension

Thank you Dabcult for reminding us of a greater truth: “The fruit did not fall far from the tree”. In Butler’s case, he could only (indeed, as all of us) be as good as his teacher, the OLD Prabhupad.
A.C. Bhakitvedanta was worried for his financial stability of his movement, but the cost in human suffering is too great to overlook. Similarly, Butler’s single most important objective was never the salvation of his followers but instead the exploitation of said followers, and, as in ISKCON, being able to control and manipulate the children of his slaves, in whatever way he saw fit.
In watching the videos-[www.youtube.com],
I could not help but remember the plight of Rama Ranson as well as Eigener Herr- https://youtu.be/n4IuZiAmRp8.

Butler, Wai Lana, ISKCON, (or any other organization which exist to harm and exploit children) will NEVER have the power to silence the TRUTH.
Remember the words of Rama Ranson:

“Chris Butler cult justify violence/murder like ISIS new
Posted by: Rama Das (slave name) ()
Date: August 01, 2015 12:08AM

At a very young age my friend Prahlad Webb used to tell me that if somebody was "being offensive" to your Spiritual Master, that it was okay to kill or hurt them.

This was taught quite widely to the kids, I understand it was not uncommon and well reinforced at the Philippines Baguio Chris Butler boys school.

They are luckily not dumb enough to try that shit, surely even to a cult member going to prison because you killed for Chris Butler does not sound good.

I have been fully aware of the fact that any cult member could easily justify killing or attacking me for speaking out. I have been keenly aware of this since 2006 and have thought about it a lot in the last 2 months since my recent NZ articles.
I want to go home but I give serious thought to the possibility that some fucking nut job could fully justify and rationalize trying to attack or kill me.

I'm not afraid of this personally, I know that no matter what, things are on my side and I have protection.

They are ALL pathetic, though, every last one of them. I WISH I lived in the same town as all these fuck head cult members I grew up with. I would be in their faces every day and I would be bull horn protesting at all their Kirtans.

Whangamata New Zealand cult members... Look forward to me fucking up your cult activities in person one day before too long.

I'm the one you are all scared of, not the other way.

I am Non Violent 100% and I will bury your cult in the ground."

It is long past time to bring the curtain down on the "Sham of Butler", destroyer of families, children and charlatan extraordinaire.
Put this in your cup of tea:
Have you any clue, dear reader, how many sociopathic men took to Butler’s word, hook line and sinker because it justified their already poisoned beliefs in their supremacy as “men” and were now allowed- indeed, encouraged- to "lord it over" the women and children in Butler’s cult? The number of women who actually believed this idiotic theocracy and went along with it?
Have you any clue the sheer number of children the world over (because Butlerism went viral) who are emotionally scarred and left virtually orphans, simply for choosing their own path- away from Butler?

Cult of Butler, you can no longer continue in the manner who have become accustomed to.

One of the most curious and weird information coming from the New Zeland article
was that Patrick Bowler at one time did get initiation from BUTLER (and got the name Paramahansa )...and promise to his guru to never touch drugs ....not even smoke a joint and then went on to become with a few Butler other followers THE BIGGEST DRUG DEALERS IN THE WORLD moving 150 tonnes at a time
of dope ...Rama as already said that Bowler maintain his family while they where the main cooks for Butler when he resided in Sedona ...Only a stupid fool would believe that BUTLER knew nothing of his beloved disciple being a drug dealer.
There was another big bust in Laguna beach in the late 70 ies involving disciples of Butler ...As Butler received large amounth of money from drug dealers disciples
trought a very complicated insulation process ....who bought those millions dollrs homes in Hawaii with what money ?...It is a fact that swami Bhaktivedanta recieved
envelops of cash from Butler and never ask "where is this money coming from ?"
We now know that Swami Bhaktivedanta build the magnificient temple in Vrindavan
India with the money that his disciple GURU KRIPA was brigning to him in suitcases....later on Guru Kripa went to jail for 4 years I think ...because all that money was from the proceed of selling large quantities of HEROIN...(that possibly kill dozen of kids in Europe and America of overdoses)
You wonder about about the mentality of theses gurus ... SPIRITUAL MONEY LAUNDERING....Its Ok because it is use in Krishna service ..or in Butler services ...That was a philosophy widely use in the Hare Krishna..
"THEY ARE KARMIS after all" and we are DEVOTEES working for the blue God Krishna
as Butler had big plan for martial art movies ....and naturally the Wai Lana
videos ... and those ski vacations in Aspen with the whole famaly must have cost a few dollars ...wonder if that was with private jet also .
I wish someone would come out from under a rock and tell the world about the involvement of "JAGAD GURU" in all those drug deals ..
Who was doing what ...and did some of that drug money distributed in evelops
to Butler disciples to "DONATE "to Mike and Tulsi Gabbard political aspirations
VOX VERITAS is right ....there is a good movie scenario with all those stories .
ANOTHER POINT ...RAMA should not be afraid of being kill by the cult ...the best thing he ever did is come out and speak boldly ...and the more he speak the more the cult would be very very stupid to take any negative actions againts him ..it should be a lessons for other ex cult members ...DO NOT SPEAK TO JUST A FEW ...come out and tell the whole world ...about that criminal BUTLER
did

Two part article about the ethical dilemma of Tulsi Gabbard.
Civil Beat recently reported on Tulsi Gabbard’s association with the cult of Chris Butler, but they played it safe by referring to rumors of those ties (Krishna Cult Rumors Still Dog Tulsi Gabbard). (read the comment of Bart Dame at the bottom of this article for his reaction to the rumors).

The rumors are in fact true and I recently posted the stunning revelation that Tulsi Gabbard once lived and worked in Australia in order to serve her master, Chris Butler. Tulsi omits this key fact in her political biography. Not surprising since her father, Mike Gabbard, has a long history of political deception. (Read how Flash and Mike Gabbard fought over his attempted coverup and Flash won).
Why should anyone care that this father-daughter pair are tied to Chris Butler, leader of Science of Identity (SOI)? It is because Butler demands, and receives, “absolute power” over them and over all other members of his secret society. That absolute power creates an ethical dilemma for a public servant who legally derives power from the people. Mike Gabbard, an ex-hippie with a history of drug abuse, willingly bowed to the authority of Chris Butler. Tulsi, however, was born into the cult and deliberately programmed (brainwashed). What follows is a fact-based exploration of Tulsi Gabbard being deceitful, having conflicts of interest, favoring cult-owned businesses, and behaving in manner contrary to the public trust. I have no idea if this rises to the level of violation of ethics, but she does seem set on a dangerous course for a politician.

Read the full article with its many links and image files:

Flash





1. Madhavi Muncie (drug-smuggler Patrick Bowler’s daughter in law)
2. Vrindavan Bellord (nee Gabbard, sister of Tulsi)
3. Tulsi Gabbard (nee Tamayo)
4. Ma Tamayo (wife of cult school master, Toby Tamayo)
5. Unidentified
6. Vrnda Hansen (nee Lloyd)
7. Subadra Bellord (daughter of Wai Lan Butler, Chris Butler’s wife)
8. Sachi Tamayo (sister of Eddie Tamayo – Tulsi’s 1st husband)
9. Chaitanya Spencer

Flash- great job of posting the credits for the so-called "Yoga” video.
That would be "yoga" according to Butler,
An aberration to be sure.
It looks like nothing has changed- cult members proliferate on this video.
The DP & Editor is none other than Tulsi Gabbard’s new sham “cult husband”.
The production manager is cagey ol’ Lalita Gopal Das (Larry Olsen).
The gaffer appears to be Mamada Das (Richard Lowther).
One of the assistant editors is Avaduta Das (Barry Lay).
And always, with his toe-nail picking finger in his soup, we have
Siddha himself- grand poo-bah- Chris Butler- still trying to be a failed rock star and succeeding admirably.

I just want to say how pleased I am to see dabcult posting again to this important message board. His past contributions were huge and I look forward to reading his current thoughts. It is easy to forget that he, too, is a victim of a destructive cult with many years of experience on de-programming. Dabs, don't feel guilty or responsible for being part of a cult years ago. You have done more than required to make up for it and you're an inspiration to those struggling to get free.

Flash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2015 07:18AM by flashlight_on_roaches.

To answer cfig's question:

When did old Butler say women could be pure devotees? That goes back to the beginning. As far back as 1970 Chris Butler declared Kathy Hoshijo a pure devotee. People served and bowed down to her. Does that mean he is a feminist? Does that mean he respects women? No, he is an equal opportunity misanthrope who will use anyone for his purposes.

From the beginning, Butler has favored women to be fronts for him and to carry out his demands (hide behind their skirts metaphorically speaking). He groomed Katyayani to be a preaching vehicle with her "Kathy Cooks Naturally" television show and run for congress under the "Independents for Godly Government" party. Recall that Hoshijo also denied any connection to Butler and the SIF or SOI during her campaign. She also had a fake marriage to Larry Olsen when she ran. [Larry Olsen is listed as a producer on Wai Lana's "Namaste" video]. Later on Hoshijo broke off from Butler and started her own mini cult in California. You can read about her cult in Shyam Dodge's book Wet Hot and Wild American Yogi He also talks about Butler obliquely, only referring to him as "Sai".

Butler tried to groom Debbie Figueroa (Devavani devi dasi) to be his preaching vehicle by singing and recording songs. That ended badly when she showed an independent (intelligence) streak and revealed to him that she was a lesbian. This caused a great rift and Figueroa left the cult after losing many years of her life in service to Butler. Don't ever underestimate the damages to a person who lost their youth in this cult. If you don't understand how a person can end up in a stupid cult, read Rick Ross's book Cults Inside Out: How People Get In and Can Get Out

It appears that Butler also employs useful idiots like Jeannie Conroy/Bishop and Prema dasi as his administrative heads and bulldogs in my opinion.

He has groomed Wai Lana (Vaishnava devi dasi) for preaching through yoga. Now he is using Tulsi Gabbard for his political aspirations.

Butler orchestrates every aspect of their lives from what they wear to whom they marry.

I am sure there are countless other women who have been put in positions of responsibility and power based on the level of submissiveness to his directives.

After a certain point, he may insulate them from the plebian devotee crowd by declaring them "pure devotees" worthy of service. Okay, they never can be as high and advanced as Butler. When Katyayani started initiating her own disciples, there was an uneasy rift.

Is Butler as mysogynist as AC Bhaktivedanta Swami? A lot of ACB's teachings about women were/are taught in Butler's indoctrination schools.

Exer's have reported many mysogynist statements made by Butler on this forum. You mentioned that he said it would be better if they were born a man. He has told husbands that they should hit their wives when they are not submissive and piss them off. He calls women "cunts" or "dogs in heat". He tells women that they should never be alone in a room with a man - even their own brother (except her husband or father). I am sure others can give you more examples.

Here is another hilarious Radhika Bianchi video about Butler's own guru's attitudes about women. This is the man who launched Butler's career as a swami. And since Butler claims to be in the disciplic succession and it is taught that his word and his guru's word is as good as G0d......well how can Butler disavow what ACB Prabhupad #1 says? Wouldn't that be an offence?!

[sarcasm] Srila Prabhupada: Expert Historian and Big, Big Feminist