corboy Wrote:
Quote
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vera City wrote:
>
Quote
If you are a new person in love with the
> high you get from the incense, music, chanting,
> and good vibes, you won't be told what really lies
> ahead.
>
>
> It is time for us to question if the bliss we feel
> in a group is a bliss
> that has been generated via exploitation of other
> devotees -- as described above.
>
> We are learning to purchase fair trade coffee and
> other commodities.
>
> We must learn to ask if the bliss we feel is from
> clean, non abusive
> sources.
>
> Bliss doesn't prove anything -- it is a pleasure
> perception that is felt when some stimulus, social
> or chemical or both, triggers certain neurological
pathways in the central nervous system.
I love incense :) I've been burning it for most of my life. Music has also been a part of my existence since I can remember. I love chanting, and have since before I met any of Siddhaswarupananda's students. Many times our chanting does not sound very good
musically, but is still wonderful to hear.
I feel no sense of abuse from the group I chant with, and there have been many times of very high feelings or bliss. Most of the time however, I am not chanting with a group but am by myself or just my partner. The bliss is still there, and sometimes even greater. This is a clean bliss, no drugs, no abuse of other people, just chanting Krishna's names, and it comes naturally.
Vera City Wrote:
Quote
>
> Where is your proof that Butler is a man worthy of
> your life blood and is beyond reproach?
>
>
>
My only proof is my personal experiences. I have met no other being who could answer all of the questions I've had about life/religion/yoga (and I've asked ALOT of questions). Granted, many of these answers have come from senior disciples, but who do they owe their wisdom to? Siddhaswarupananda. I can't explain how I've naturally moved towards a life of Yoga and renunciation of the world most people enjoy. Regular (mundane) things don't bring me joy anymore like they used to... I can honestly say that I do not feel like I can function in this world on a daily basis without practicing yoga. This is how I have felt for a number of years, and is not solely based on Siddhawarupananda's teachings, although his teachings do solidify my feelings and nature and allow me to go deeper than I have before.
I can look at the examples you've cited of supposed 'abuse', and I truly feel sorry that those individuals had to undergo whatever they did. But like you said, it is their karma. I know I won't gain any positive reactions here for saying that, but it is truly my understanding of our reality. It sounds harsh, but it is true. There are individuals who are suffering from disease or starving on this planet, but it is only because of their past actions that has lead them to be in that position. It sucks, but it is also temporary.
This is why there are different levels of teachings given by the spiritual master. Some are not ready to hear the truth because of where they are currently viewing the reality. Say someone's mother just dies of cancer, it would be considered cruel (although honest) to go up to them and say 'well that was just her karma, and yours as well'. Some people would be ready to hear that, and others would not and probably flip out and begin to call you all sorts of evil names because you are mean or 'have no heart'. So naturally, a teacher will hold back or conceal certain truths or teachings so that the student can handle it at the proper time.
The guru is like a hot knife, cutting out the imperfections of our false ego. It is not an easy process, not always pleasant, and sometimes outright painful. But what happens when we make it through? We surrender more to God's will, giving up our own and becoming more humbled by the whole process.
We are not to criticize Guru, once we have accepted him as such, as we can not comprehend his level of understanding or methods of teaching. To do such is very harmful for our spiritual life.
Siddhaswarupananda's whole purpose in being here is to take humans to the highest platform of self-realization and love for God. He did not come to become popular, or for people to simply like him as a nice guy. We are admittedly extremely stubborn here in the western world, thus why such a strict teacher became manifest. From my limited observations, it is easier for many peoples born in other, more pious countries to take on this process of self-surrender.
I cannot comment on all of the examples that have been cited above of the hard times for students/disciples. Each case is different, as each person involved has different degrees of karma to deal with in this lifetime. Just because one becomes a devotee of Krishna or surrenders to Siddhaswarupananda, does not mean their life will suddenly become easier, or that all miseries will be wiped away. We still live in the material world, on a planet where bad shit happens, even to good people. Our only hope is that we may neutralize our karma in this life so that the next will be one centered around God.
My final 'proof' is simply this. I have prayed to God most of my life, or been seeking the Truth of this reality in one form or another. This is where He has lead me at this time. My questions have been answered, and I feel peace in my heart. I chant Krishna's names and everything is better instantly. What else is there to do?
Namaste~