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siddhahistory101
This response to the following statement by Siddha Swarup found in his offering, “I Offer My Respeciful Obeisances To His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
by Siddhara-svarupa Dasa”, is not about whether or not ISKCON is heaven or hell.
It is not about whether A.C. Bhaktivedants Swami was a saint or a charlatan.
It’s not about whether or not the diet or association in ISKCON was good or bad. It’s also not about whether or not Sai was treated with respect or disdain while in the mission of his guru. It is about how Sai became Siddha and gained his credentials on the back of Bhaktivedanta Swami.

[backtogodhead.in]

Siddha says,
“Approximately seven months before my surrender to Srila Prabhupada, it became clear to me that such surrendering would take place. These seven months were a time of realizing more deeply the necessity for such surrender.”

Sai was handed a letter from Bhaktivedanta Swami, the contents of which declared Sai was not his disciple . Sai had been declaring himself the disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami. The letter was meant to clear the air and let everyone know that although Sai was claiming to be following Bhaktivedanta and his sampradaya in fact Bhaktivedanta did not consider him his disciple or in his line. Swami Bhaktivedanta did not approve of his mish mash philosophy and considered it out of line. He was not impressed with the book Sai Speaks nor did he consider Sai to be brahman realized. He did not recognize him as even a bona-fide impersonalist guru. There are many reasons for that too long to detail here. Suffice it to say it takes years and years of practice in seclusion and heaps of austerity to attain the ocean of light. One taking LSD could not get there in hundreds and millions of lifetimes period. The disciples of Bhaktivedanta were greatly relieved. But it put Sai on the spot. The letter was handed to him in front of his flock. He had no choice but to enter into ISKCON and do what every one else had to to to get initiated. No special treatment. He could have rejected the letter but he would have had to change the story once again. He took his flock in days after the letter was received. But within no time he was back in the sunshine and pleasant maya of Hawaii with his old flock in tow and with a few new followers he snagged while in ISKCON. He had his credentials now. The rest is history.


All the communications about the above mentioned incident have been lost, perhaps stolen. There is nothing in the archives of Bhaktivedanta Swami about it.
Please take what you have read or leave it.
This will be my only post.

Followers of Chris Butler have, in the past, joined this discussion by making unsubstantiated claims against their own spiritual leader. Such bogus claims can undermine all the factual research posted here as well as making CB a bit of a martyr who’s been falsely accused. I’m not concluding anything yet about your single posting, but merely want to point out some issues:
ACB Swami was, by all appearances, a meticulous correspondent and keeper of records. Have you tried to locate ACB’s copy of the alleged letter which accused Butler of making illegitimate claims about being a devotee of ACB? Your mention of “Sai Speaks” is curious because an ACB letter reprimanding CB for publishing this pamphlet is in the record, but written AFTER CB is accepted by ACB. Vera states that other records have “gone missing”, but a matter this important might have been referenced elsewhere and copied. Has anyone made contact with librarians within ISKON?
Do you recall anything at all about the letter that might help locate a copy? What City was ACB writing from (He usually mentions the City)? Was anyone mentioned by name in the letter and did ACB say how he learned of the infractions? This was pre-internet, so somebody must have told ACB about the newspaper article from July 1970 and other activities of CB in Hawaii. Who-hand delivered the letter to CB and embarrassed him in front of CB devotees? Surely, CB would have cursed that person.
What is the reason that you mention CB then being treated just as any other devotee (no special treatment) and subject to degradation? It could be an attempt to make CB appear Jesus-like by suffering on the Cross after being jealously reported to Pontius Pilate.
I would be delighted to assist in locating the historical records, but will need more to go on. This could be very important information once confirmed and I encourage you to stay involved, if not on this board, then consider private messages with someone rock-solid like Vera.

Well that last link
took me to look to this link

[backtogodhead.in]

Thats me on the cover holding the deity ......What a fine looking man I was at age 19 (humour )

As far as the letters of swami Bhaktivedanta
there is an archive in Los Angeles of his letters ......who as the right to access them .......I DO NOT KNOW

But as I said before
There where a lot of political games happenings around the SWAMI
and many of theses letter where written by people that Swami had confidence in .........but where actually running various scams and had various opinions
They often would hand Swami 25 letters ....he would barely read them sometimes ....and it was ship out (I saw this with my own eyes )

So whatever theses letter says ....may not be what swami had in mind .

That is why when I received an TELEGRAM in Argentina from Swami ...that said "Stay a monk Hanuman das ...do not get merried " I did got merried anyway ..........I had no trust in any letter anymore by 1973 ......some of his secrataries ....where very devious .

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dabcult
Well that last link
took me to look to this link

[backtogodhead.in]

Thats me on the cover holding the deity ......What a fine looking man I was at age 19 (humour )

As far as the letters of swami Bhaktivedanta
there is an archive in Los Angeles of his letters ......who as the right to access them .......I DO NOT KNOW

But as I said before
There where a lot of political games happenings around the SWAMI
and many of theses letter where written by people that Swami had confidence in .........but where actually running various scams and had various opinions
They often would hand Swami 25 letters ....he would barely read them sometimes ....and it was ship out (I saw this with my own eyes )

So whatever theses letter says ....may not be what swami had in mind .

That is why when I received an TELEGRAM in Argentina from Swami ...that said "Stay a monk Hanuman das ...do not get merried " I did got merried anyway ..........I had no trust in any letter anymore by 1973 ......some of his secrataries ....where very devious .

Fun to see you back in the day dabcult! You look a bit glazed over. Lucky escape!

Yes, I have heard many reports from exers of the corruptions of ACB's secretaries and leaders. ACB was ill for a long time and could not run his organization as meticulously as one would think. He was way over his head and perhaps clueless about many things. He was totally dependent on these devious secretaries. After his death and absolute destruction of ISKCON's reputation (crimes, child sexual abuse, murder), there were great efforts to rescue and archive his correspondence and writings. From some reports, they have been able to validate everything in the portfolio. But obviously there were missing documents along with fraudulent ones that had to be gleaned.

One of my sources was close to a BBT (Bhaktivedanta Book Trust) individual who told him flat out his disillusion with the ISKCON leaders in the early 70's. Before ACB's death he was being given orders to edit tapes by ISKCON leaders and also reported that memos would go missing and books were being edited. He said that he also did not believe any of the memos attributed to ACB any more - that he had no way of knowing if they were true or not. This was a person who had nothing to do with Butler who was confiding with an old friend from high school.

I do think that Sai was aware of the disdain ISKCON Honolulu had for his band and was truly considering surrender months ahead of letter or decision to share with his KYC. Perhaps that's a moot point, but as dabcult pointed out, he did not give his brainwashed KYC followers any time to consider or process his decision. Many would have had an opportunity to choose for themselves. He knew that if they had time to think, his histrionic "offering" to ACB would be less theatrical.

Being a born narcissist, he did not like being treated like an ordinary devotee. That is the point. It was his own attitude and arrogance that got him mistreated along with the fact that there were jealous and corrupt godbrothers. It is also true that Butler made himself a martyr which gained him sympathy and control with his famous "us against them" tactics. The fact that there really were nasty people close to ACB does not in any way negate Butler's own corruptions.

Butler did not want to go to India to get "trained up" and refused to go at some point. He was humiliated and frustrated with ACB's lack of appreciation and expected more attention and recognition from his guru. Why else would he allow his followers to continue to spread the pure devotee lie? Tusta, Sudama, Katyayani were all complicit in this. There is one report (I think on this forum) where he did go to India with Tusta (? and/or Sudama), but could not handle the situation and left early. This puzzled and angered ACB. The fact is that his complaints against ISKCON were legitimate, which bonded him with temple escapees and former followers. But every cult leader mixes a bit of truth with lies to exert their undue influence and to exercise mind control for personal gain. Butler is no different.

He struggled to keep his legitimacy while at the same time distancing himself from his guru's own organization. I have no doubt that Butler himself doubted ACB's divinity, knowing fully about the corruption within ISKCON. It must have occurred to him that if ACB was a pure devotee why didn't he know his own swamis were abusing little boys and stealing from the coffers!? Wouldn't Krishna have told him when he was gallivanting with the cowherd boys in the spiritual sky?

Butler caught on to the game and just followed in his guru's footsteps, only making sure to have complete control over his group, which accounts for his micro-management and secrecy. He did not want to suffer ACB's fate. I wonder if in the end, ACB realized the monsters he created and just died from the depression...? That's my take on things. Does it make him less corrupt? Of course not.

After ACB's death, competition from India was coming to America to fill the void. They were Vaishnava gurus with older and better credentials, able to steal followers away. Butler continued to need legitimacy, so with Tusta's help, joined with the World Vaishna Association. Now Tulsi is going "Happy Diwali" Hindu. The whole group may be tilting that way, seeing how successful ISKCON has been by doing so.

On a side note, just so you know how "mainstream Hindu" ISKCON has become, in their recent online edition of Back to Godhead, there is an article about a Vaishnava public school funded by the government in the UK...

Thats such a good point VERA


Perhaps that's a moot point, but as dabcult pointed out, he did not give his brainwashed KYC followers any time to consider or process his decision. Many would have had an opportunity to choose for themselves. He knew that if they had time to think, his histrionic "offering" to ACB would be less theatrical.

THATS PART OF THE MIND CONTROL THECKNIQUES (CONCIOUS OR UNCONSCIOUS ) THAT BUTLER USE

IMAGINE THESES NEARLY 50 YOUNG ADULTS .......HAVING LIVED IN HAWAII ......LONG HAIR ....LOTS OF FREEDOM POSSIBLY DRUGS ACCESS
MAUI WAOI.... surfing ......AND 48 HOURS TO GET SHIP TO L.A or SAN FRANCISCO AND WHO KNOW WHERE (OR HOW IT WAS DECIDED )

AND MR UNIVERS .......HAD 7 MONTHS TO PLAY OR NOT PLAY HIS CARDS .........NOW THIS VERY GOOD BRAINWASHING ....HE SAYS JUMP
AND THEY SAY "WHERE TO MASTER " ?...........NEW YORK your idiots......

I had a talk on the phone with a very very nice guy yesterday that was around SIDDHA when Butler was a sanyasin (a monk) early 70 ies

To make a long story short

This man was married with one child at the time ....and one day out of the blue.... Butler decided to give initiation to his wife (without asking her husband permission .....advising him ...or inviting him to also be initiated himself ) she was so taken by Butler that she did got initiated .

Then the couple lost track of Butler for a few years and they had another child ... and move the the mainland .Then one day out of the blue again
Butler call on the phone the home of that famaly ..and ask to speak with the wife (his disciple)
he requested that she leave everything ......and go to FIJI to serve Butler on a project he was putting together on that island
There is many twist and turn in this story .........but bottom line she escape to Hawaii with her kids ........and on the orders of BUTLER
went into hiding with her kids ........for 30 years or so (BROKE THE MAN,S HEART ) AS HE LOVE HIS KIDS
The man I talk to only reconnected a few years ago with his kids because they where on facebook .(can you imagine ) and now as met them a few times in persons....and a few gran kids he had never met
THAT IS HOW FREAKING POISENOUS THIS BUTLER mind control as been ......and IS .............ITS ALL ABOUT HIM ...and fuck the hearts of eveyone else.............that the second such story I heard in the last few months (the other story is ongoing and the kids have been kidnap and are in the Philipinne.......with lawyers of Butler involve ...........................theses storie just motivate me to go find him an kick his ass (figuritively) ...police arrest would be better )

AND VERA ........ AS A FAR AS THE GLAZE EYES ...........5 TO 6 HOURS SLEEP ONLY ........FOR YEARS ON END ......AND 12 HOURS A DAY OF SERVICE MOSTLY IN THE STREETS BEGGING ..........THAT ALONE AS A GLAZING EFFECT ....AND CHANTING MILLIONS OF TIMES OVER AND OVER 3 WORDS .....HARE KRISHNA RAMA............I MUST HAVE BEEN IN A DEEP TRANCE

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dabcult
AND VERA ........ AS A FAR AS THE GLAZE EYES ...........5 TO 6 HOURS SLEEP ONLY ........FOR YEARS ON END ......AND 12 HOURS A DAY OF SERVICE MOSTLY IN THE STREETS BEGGING ..........THAT ALONE AS A GLAZING EFFECT ....AND CHANTING MILLIONS OF TIMES OVER AND OVER 3 WORDS .....HARE KRISHNA RAMA............I MUST HAVE BEEN IN A DEEP TRANCE

this is how it was in the school in Philippines

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IamtheAntiChris

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dabcult
AND VERA ........ AS A FAR AS THE GLAZE EYES ...........5 TO 6 HOURS SLEEP ONLY ........FOR YEARS ON END ......AND 12 HOURS A DAY OF SERVICE MOSTLY IN THE STREETS BEGGING ..........THAT ALONE AS A GLAZING EFFECT ....AND CHANTING MILLIONS OF TIMES OVER AND OVER 3 WORDS .....HARE KRISHNA RAMA............I MUST HAVE BEEN IN A DEEP TRANCE

this is how it was in the school in Philippines

Who do you remember seeing at that school? Did you see Tulsi Gabbard (Tulasi) or Eddie Tamayo? Did you witness any abuse other than the mental and physical strain described above?
Your first-hand accounts would be helpful in exposing the destructive nature of the Chris Butler cult.

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flashlight_on_roaches

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IamtheAntiChris

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dabcult
AND VERA ........ AS A FAR AS THE GLAZE EYES ...........5 TO 6 HOURS SLEEP ONLY ........FOR YEARS ON END ......AND 12 HOURS A DAY OF SERVICE MOSTLY IN THE STREETS BEGGING ..........THAT ALONE AS A GLAZING EFFECT ....AND CHANTING MILLIONS OF TIMES OVER AND OVER 3 WORDS .....HARE KRISHNA RAMA............I MUST HAVE BEEN IN A DEEP TRANCE

this is how it was in the school in Philippines

Who do you remember seeing at that school? Did you see Tulsi Gabbard (Tulasi) or Eddie Tamayo? Did you witness any abuse other than the mental and physical strain described above?
Your first-hand accounts would be helpful in exposing the destructive nature of the Chris Butler cult.

all the Tamayos have been in the school for at least 5 years. most the Noni boys have attended, and most of them are back in Hawaii and Aus serving CB. i can reconize them in the pictures from a few pages back.
i know for a fact Tulsi was there at one point. the news would reach us on who would be arriving next.


the males were not allowed to speak or even think about the females. they were in another province, Cebu.
Tamayo residence/school was in Baguio mountain province.
eventually the two schools moved to La Union.

the abuse was part of the whole indoctrination system.
you come in, there will be seniors which you assigned to.
you were made to feel worthless. you were made to serve the foreigners.
the tactics are very much in line with the cult guidelines for mind control.

there was a hazing period which you had to survive, mostly done to you by the boys that had been there long.
you would get physically assaulted, and verbally abused.
taekwondo was the main activity, they would all be intermediate students
you were given a nickname. something really vile that rhymes with your "devotee" name.
this was your new personality.


the schedule was you wake up at 4:15am to take a freezing cold shower,
then proceed to the altar room to chant the majority of assigned rounds on japa beads. gurupuj, then arotik.
that lasted almost two hours. we would all be freezing, and most of the time sick, or falling asleep.

after that we had to listen to the hate spewing lectures of CB sandwiched with love for gOd and serving the spiritual master.
and a lot of gay sex, and demonic people from the outside world.

after that it would be PE, which is taekwondo.
after that chores and then finally breakfast. then more chores. we were constantly rotating chores, planting, cleaning, basically building the Tamayo residence. in the after noon we had a short period of academics, a teacher would come in to help the foreigners with their home schooling program. our free time was spent doing our own laundry by hand.
it has become more lax reccently as most the foreigners got too culture shocked to take it, started crying for weeks and were eventually sent home.

when i mean a lot, i mean i have never learned so much about gay sex, how its done, where its done, how they do their thing.
all the terminology CB knew. which is really strange, feltching, fisting, rimming, etc these were all part of the lectures.
everyone would try and cope with the confusion and laugh uncomfortably at the sick jokes.

after a while, you start to think to yourself, is there even a point in living?
everyone started to behave and think this way, there was a lot of racism going on within the students, and behavior that exceeded normal expectations from teen-aged boys. every boy lusted after the females that were inside mostly Tamayo girls, i couldnt imagine how our teacher could even let that happen. some were kicked out for being peeping toms.
some wrote love letters to the daughters, everyone loved the female mrs Tamayo.

there was a lot of sexual repression, no one was allowed outside the compound, and no one was allowed any form of communication from the outside world,. nothing. no TV, no print, nothing except Who Are You books and Life Force series pamphlets which we had to distribute as the outreach program and recruitment.

the school was shut down on orders of CB himself, twice.
the first time is because there was an outbreak of gonorrhea. yes, the sexually transmitted disease.
the top students, foreigners were allowed to take classes outside of the compound, and they would commute.
in between that, they would visit a "massage parlor" a front for prostitution. it is rampant in the 3rd world countries.

not educated on using any sort of protection, they,
(when i say they, it means the one person who is probably the closest to CB even to this very min)
got the sexually transmitted disease. school was shut down, ordered the foreigners to go home, and we were all interrogated in front of the altar swearing on our souls to tell every account that had happened, and what we knew.

the second time was when some students got busted holding each others dicks.
i dont want to go into details but there was some gayness, (who would have thought right?)
going around the students. probably experimenting and maybe just trying to make sense of all the gay lectures about pleasure and sex and sensory enjoyment.
the boys were married of right away to the girls, and then proceeded to have children as soon as possible.
this was around the time Tulsi got married too, if i am not mistaken.

this took a lot for me to write out. these boys (and girls) were only victims.
this is a cult. this should see the light so we can all accept it for what it is.
a destructive organization in the guise of spirituality, that serves no other purpose but to cater to Chris Butler's lunatic demands.

Anti Chris ~
My heart goes out to you. Thank you for validating the stories about the school. I know it must have stirred a lot of difficult memories.

Were your parents aware of the abuse in the school? Did you have contact with them? Did you tell them? Did you have support from them at the time and do they support you now? How did you get out of the cult? What made the difference for you? Do you still have family and friends within the cult and how does this affect you? How have your cult experiences affected your adult life in your opinion?

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Vera City
Anti Chris ~
My heart goes out to you. Thank you for validating the stories about the school. I know it must have stirred a lot of difficult memories.

Were your parents aware of the abuse in the school? Did you have contact with them? Did you tell them? Did you have support from them at the time and do they support you now? How did you get out of the cult? What made the difference for you? Do you still have family and friends within the cult and how does this affect you? How have your cult experiences affected your adult life in your opinion?

as much as i would like to share the above information, i risk giving my identity and compromising myself.
we were sworn to secrecy and of course threatened with eternal damnation.

parents werent really aware of what was going on in the school. a lot of trust was placed in it, and they were too busy trying to be the perfect servants of CB to even care, listen or realize that this system will damage their kids for life.

i started to question, and this in turn raised suspicion. the nxt thing is: youre out.
cognitive dissonance is a hard thing to accept for most.
i had read about mind control, and everything started falling into place.
its a classic cult. no other way to put it.
i realized what was really going on. i just added it all up.
the experience is something i wouldnt want to wish upon anyone, especially children.