> Earthquake, you explained the subtle distinction
> about when karma is necessary and useful (for a
> new seeker preparing to become qualified for the
> teachings) and how once that stage is over and the
> truth has landed, that there is no point in
> continuing to practice karma yoga, since the whole
> game has been seen through. The truth needs then
> to be applied to the mind, and the karma yoga
> principle becomes redundant. (That is at least
> what I took you to be saying.)
Adi Shankaracharya is the head of our sampradaya, teaching tradition. He taught that one is to use karma kanda (chapters/subject matter) like a boat to cross the ocean of samsara. Once you reach the shore you are to leave it behind, and carry on the journey on foot. This is one third of the Vedas you're to leave behind.
Karma comes before knowledge in Vedanta. And, Vedanta teaches that a person doesn't attain enlightenemnt through karma yoga, but through knowledge. A globally known Swami in our tradtion teaches in his commentary on Madukya karika, that if the person carries on using karma yoga in sadhana they will stay in samsara. Karma yoga is triangluar format (world/Samsara). Then there is binary. But even that isn't enlightenment. One has to move to advaita.
> Well....I just went to look on SW to see something
> about a particular ex-staff member and ex-teacher
> from Shingingworld, who was recently removed and
> “cast out” of the whole business.
> The fallout happened over politics.
> I’m astonished that James has become so
> politically vocal on SW. I just don’t see what
> American politics has to do with Vedanta, and why
> so much focus would be going into discussions over
> But actually - I think I know the reason.
> It’s because James wants to be proved right.
> My guess is, he got into a fixed position over
> Trump, and he’s now SO proud about being right,
> that he just can’t help himself.
> How can he not see what this says about him?
> Why would he jeopardise a relationship with
> someone who has faithfully served him for years,
> over his need to be right over politics?
> It makes no sense at all....except if you remember
> who is actually driving the James bus after all.
Yes, it's such a great point you are making. Politics isnt Vedanta. Sure, a person can have a view on anything they want. Even a Vedanta teacher can. But, Vedanta is Vedanta.
It's hard to justify that a teacher-student relationship ends over such a non-Vedanta thing. Vedanta does understand that things can happen between teacher and student. We recite a sanskrit hymn at the start of classes, it's a peace invocation. Swartz has recited it himself. it's to ask that there is no differences of opinion between teacher & student, as the knowledge will be lost then. The question is, what value does it have for the teacher to be so opinionated? Once personal opinions are gave it changes the relationship dynamic. The student needs to know about VEdanta. What they don't need is their own personal views challenged. A teacher has got no business challenging someones own personal views on non-Vedanta things.
Funny enough, i've been having some little chats with people on a post i made yesterday on Facebook. It's a meme that looks anti a certain politician, and people have came on an give me their opinions over the satire. It's actually about the news controlling thought, but, through the 'debate' I stick ridgidly to the truth that all views are important, and it's also okay to disagree. One cannot force their opinion onto another, as that's not samatvam, equality. Equality is knowing and showing that an alternate opinion is also valid. And the person is allowed to have it.
> Regarding the karma yoga confusion, James was
> giving advice to someone, on a political rant
> post, to continue to practice karma yoga. He gave
> me the same advice, many times. It confused me.
> Thankfully, I now see why.
If the person who Swartz was ranting at, is jnani (enlightened) then that person will not ever go back to karma yoga. It's not permitted in Vedanta. Actually, more than that, the jnani would never go back, because they cannot go back. You can't go back in sadhana like this.
It happened to me with him, when I was there. I had to remind him I cannot go back to karma yoga if I am enlightened. So I was labelled as wrongly claiming enlightenment, as a sickness. I had to then remind both Swartz' that I only thought I was enlightened then, as both of them told me. I even still have him handwritted letter.
Now with the correct, teachings, I know how useless the whole conversations were.
> As for the person who James has rejected, over his
> opinions on Trump (which James mis-read anyway, as
> far as I’ve understood) perhaps this is also a
> “gift from god” in the same way that my parting of
> ways from James has been.
Yes, it could be a blessing if they view it that way. The other thing I wanted to say was something I forgot before. Swartz said to you that if you accuse someone of adharma you better be dharmic yourself. I've nearly choked to death on my own laughter. He has wrote a satsang about me a few weeks ago, telling bare-faced lies, that they left me because I was using Vedanta for sex 2 years ago. And you and I both know for a fact it's lies, as we were both witness to events then. This is a spritual teacher who doesn't hesitate to tell his own Shiningworld members lies in order to make someone challenging him bad, so he can keep his fiefdom intact. Shiningworld members that where there 2 years ago should ask him why it is proper to tell lies about another person and publish it. There's no honour in publishing lies about someome to try to harm them.
> It will take me some time to deconstruct the
> things I’ve taken on, through James, that are not
> in accordance with the scriptures/the Truth. I
> can’t start to do that fully yet, as I’m still
> dealing with the impact of the emotional bullying
> and violence that has at some level, shaken me.
> All in good time.
I'm so glad to have you as a freind. There's a few former Shiningworld here. It's tough though. Especially when it's been important. Yea, sometimes just so personal space to process things is what's most important.
There are teachings that are modern Vedanta. I know that Swartz make a big dela about taking down modern VEdanta, but the truth is that Shiningworld teachings fall within that also. Some of them anyhow.
This self-realization and actualization business is a modern vedanta teaching. It's not tradtional vedanta.
This thing about so-called intellectual knowledge, as opposed to something else, that is also modern vedanta.
This focus on sorting out Vasanas. This is also modern vedanta. It's not neccessary and it's not needed, and it's not possible. Vasanas have formed over infitinite lifetimes, it takes infinite lifetimes to deal with them. And while your dealing with them you are reinforcing that 'things' change you... And that's samsara.
This equation that is taught in Shiningworld: Brahman + Maya = Isvara. That is modern vedanta. There is no such equation in Vedanta. I've stored a copy of the pdf satsangs where this is taught.
The gunas. Gunas are taught within Vedanta, but only to an extent. As Krishna taught in Chapter 2 to be trigunatha. Beyond the gunas.
And of course, advanced students in niddihyasana using karma yoga. Whether this is deliberately taught or not,it certainly is not taught not to, and using karma yoga in advanced sadhana is ripe in SW.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2020 11:18PM by earthquake.