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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: May 12, 2019 08:10PM

After James described how he desposed of his wife like a piece of garbage because he now fancies someone else, he writes:

Quote

I know it is hard to believe but it was only after she drove off that I realized I had just solved my problem. There would be no more furtive trips down darkened hallways in the dead of night. Guru Jim was getting respectable.

Respectable? What kind of person can think that any of this is respectable?

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: May 12, 2019 10:38PM

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Lots to talk about in the many points raised. I cant properly BB code reply to them until I get to the work, bit heck i shall type here from memory.

Yep, Mooji. I shall have to get into those topics in a couple days time. I dont know his system. Papaji is recoqnised as modern vedanta. That is one thing. Perhaps Mooji has went a bit to modern, i mean, McDonalds.

About JS trying to take moojis members. It ia true. That is rich coming from him. But i cant say why yet. Though more and more SW are leaving now. There is a growing movement. With many ways to skin a cat as JS says himself.

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About the amazon review. And this is a side reply really. Modern vedanta says there are three or four paths to moksha. Modern vedanta include ramakrishna mission. Ramana maharshi. Papaji\r\nEtc. Modern vedanta is classified by personal epxressions. And i include Shiningworld in that. No matter what they say.

There is a looking down ones nose at modern vedata. And i got to talk with integrity here. Traditiional vedanta does not invalidate modern vedanta. For highly valid specific reasons modern vedanta takes too long. If af all.


There are not four paths. Krishna only teaches two paths in the gita. Karma and jnana. Bhakti path is not taught. Any portion saying bhakti yoga, the yoga means subject or topic.

We trace advaita vedanta to shankara. He says only jnanam provides moksha. Indeed, if vedanta is taught correctly the student must set aside karma yoga moving to a jnana yogi. Then Brahman. Not longer indentiyinf as the mind body.

Bhakti begina as dvaita bhakti. God/deity worship. Them advaita bhakti. Seperation doesnt exist. While retaining the act of dvaita bhakti. However it is always the jnanam, knowledge from anything that provides moksha. This because moksha is a perception. It is in the mind.

Bhakti is within both paths. However a karma yogi nevrr.attains moksha..it isnt possible..only a jnana yogi can. Karma yoga is to.prepare one for jnanam.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

About what JS said in regard to pleasure. He shoulnt really be speaking about hia guru in these.ways.

However vedanta is not for sannyas. It is for householders primarily. There is nothing wrong with two people enjoying making love..or eating an icecream. Pleasure, like laughter and tears, are natural human emotions. What JS said is spiritual idealism.

Provided it is all appropriate, whats the.l issue..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About his enlightenment. His experience would be of intrerest to Swami Chimmayanda..it os experiential. Temporary.

Actual vedanta would not place importance om that. Indeed, in later years to come SW would chastise a student for writing what.JS did. It is not moksha.

Moksha is knowing you are Brahman. That you always have been. One.day jiva is in foreground. Then you realise you are Brahman..though as you know you always knew you were, that never did you not, how can you know a time whwn it clicked? You know you are not the mind. Though the mind os you.

There is no event. No hapoening. Not with jnanam. You are Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman. That jnanam is always. At this point, even maya, samsara, it is all you always. There is no dvaita. Only advaita. With the appearance of seperation.

But since you always knew this, there.is no happening. His wording ia wronng. And if he didnt have anyone to help him, this leads.to enlightment sickness. And from there these special ones can ruin lives.

Someone who is so called enlightened doesnt regard themselves as such. It doest exist for them. Since they are Brahman. However it ia ordinary..no special status.

I have one more comment. JS said something about it hard helping others since moksha. He si taking againnst scripture.

Moksha means one sits at rest as atma. Brahman. In purna ananda. Self satisifed it is a perception. A peculiar one. In that not needing any extrrnal object reveals ones limitlessness. Infinitude.

Which is not an experience exactly..yet exactly not.

Part of purna ananda is the desire to help others. With humilty. A teacher is not special. They just have a responsiblity

So if he saw ot as some big hardship. That is strange.

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It would be nice to see their financial records for the last five years. Partocularly the last two..

Btw, if this forum is viewable by guests they will be watching all that is being said. And will all be huddling together to see who is saying what.

There is so much damaging stuff about them that people can reveal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2019 10:45PM by earthquake.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: May 12, 2019 11:26PM

Thanks Earthquake, your posts really want to make me become more knowledgeable about Vedanta. Since I'm only on a rudimentary level with it, I can't discern very well which are correct Vedantic teachings and which aren't. So your take on things is greatly appreciated!

A small correction to one of my previous posts (as I'm a bit further in the autobiography now): the woman James wrote about "Six years later we would marry and embark on one of the most tragic, bizarre and rewarding experiences of my life." was not Felicia but Marlene. Marlene is the one called Charlene in Heather's story, the night club dancer with mental health problems.

The commune where James and Felicia lived eventually grew tired of James and then he moved out of there.

James writes:
Quote

I think the word in vogue then in spiritual circles was that I was impure. I can understand their fears. I was not doing anything to look like the white knight except making it possible for them to live like Gods.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: May 12, 2019 11:41PM

Im a bit conscious that of the nature of this great forum. So im tryin to be mindful the forum isnt about vedanta. So im tryin to illustrate how JS personal view often isnt in line with traditional vedanta. In everything i say. If i fall a little short i applogise

Even Ramakrishna mission have openly classed themselves as neo (court papers attest to this circa 1980s). So they are open and keep integrity.

Whereas JS says he teachea tradtional yet he doesnt. I have saw a shift to more correct traditional of late..yet, they cannot rewrite history.

Their students invariably feel lost and feel they must pander to the macheiavelliant whims of the heiracrchy.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: May 13, 2019 05:24AM

Zizlz,

Holy Mother Mary!

I just read the quotes that you have posted for us from Old James' autobiography. How he threw his first wife (?) out of the house like she was a piece of trash. He writes about the incident like he is some kind of hero! It made be want to puke, actually.

I'm no psychologist, but I would say that for sure the guy is a sociopath of some kind. Who else would write about themselves as the ultimate hero for abusing their spouse in that way?

Who could have such a book published about themselves and be proud of it? He gives himself away in what he writes, as others have claimed about their email exchanges with him... and as the author of "The Story of Heather" also claims.

Only very naive people could possibly be impressed by James' life. He sounds like a low-life to me.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: May 13, 2019 05:54AM

earthquake Wrote:
--
>
> Part of purna ananda is the desire to help others.
> With humilty. A teacher is not special. They just
> have a responsiblity
>
> So if he saw ot as some big hardship. That is
> strange.


Yes, absolutely Earthquake!!

If you have been called on a genuine spiritual path, or indeed you do realize enlightenment (excuse my use of words- I am a novice) you will have the desire to help other people. This will be rewarding and fulfilling- it will not be a hardship.

That much I believe I have always understood, in spite of my ignorance.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: May 13, 2019 12:26PM

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just read the quotes that you have posted for us
> from Old James' autobiography. How he threw his
> first wife (?) out of the house like she was a
> piece of trash. He writes about the incident like
> he is some kind of hero! It made be want to puke,
> actually.

I was mistaken about the wife part, it was his girlfriend, but yes. It made me feel sick too.


> I'm no psychologist, but I would say that for sure
> the guy is a sociopath of some kind. Who else
> would write about themselves as the ultimate hero
> for abusing their spouse in that way?

That's exactly what I was thinking! He seems to be an actual sociopath.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 12:26PM by zizlz.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: May 13, 2019 07:00PM

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthquake Wrote:
> --
> >
> > Part of purna ananda is the desire to help
> others.
> > With humilty. A teacher is not special. They
> just
> > have a responsiblity
> >
> > So if he saw ot as some big hardship. That is
> > strange.
>
>
> Yes, absolutely Earthquake!!
>
> If you have been called on a genuine spiritual
> path, or indeed you do realize enlightenment
> (excuse my use of words- I am a novice) you will
> have the desire to help other people. This will be
> rewarding and fulfilling- it will not be a
> hardship.
>
> That much I believe I have always understood, in
> spite of my ignorance.

Just moonlighting atm, and typing from workstation, haha.


Totally. If we look at why Vedanta exists, it is here for humanity. While it's not a missionary convert path, it also makes no sense to not at the very least have the desire to help others.

This desire to help others isn't out of some egoistic 'save the unsaved' type thing. Its out of compassion for humanity. As noble, responsible and humble as looking at climate change.

Look at people that have a passion and dedicate their lives to climate change issues. Sure, it may be a job, but heck, they love their job, and would do it for free if they had to. And many do!

Isnt it curious then, that any teacher who judges others still some way to go n assimilating, that they have anything except understanding and compassion.

This ties into JS and Mooji also. In Traditional Vedanta the teacher keeps themselves out of the equation. Getting personal, etc, isn't allowed. This protects both the student and teacher from any boundaries overstepped.

Heck, he (JS) was having sex with at least one of his students. And he's now married to her. I know this kind of thing is not unknown in the world. But we have to genuinely get real here...

A Traditional Vedanta teacher is not meant to permit themselves to get into the situation of having sex with students. Even if it is consensual. It matters not that he was not sannyas. She was and still is his student to this. day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 07:02PM by earthquake.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: May 14, 2019 06:26AM

Hello Earthquake,

I am in the same situation as you- writing on this forum when I should be working, but luckily I can shuffle things and multitask!

I like your point about having compassion for humanity. This is what I believe in too, and have always believed in having a compassionate outlook, without without an interest in Advaita Vedanta.

I was very disappointed to find a community of people in the Neo-Advaita scene who seemed to be very interested in spiritual development simply as a means to escape hardship and/or big-note themselves as being 'above' this earthly world.

I suppose that is very judgmental of me, but there you have it- that is all I have found, personally. Then I discovered something even worse- which was cultic abuse in the Neo-Advaita and non-duality scene, on a pretty big scale.

Oh well.

At least as a result of this forum, people are becoming more aware.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: May 14, 2019 06:21PM

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I was very disappointed to find a community of
> people in the Neo-Advaita scene who seemed to be
> very interested in spiritual development simply as
> a means to escape hardship and/or big-note
> themselves as being 'above' this earthly world.
>
> I suppose that is very judgmental of me, but there
> you have it- that is all I have found, personally.
> Then I discovered something even worse- which was
> cultic abuse in the Neo-Advaita and
> non-duality scene, on a pretty big scale.
>
> Oh well.
>
> At least as a result of this forum, people are
> becoming more aware.


This is a superb point. I'm sorry everyone if I appear to keep talking Vedanta, yet there is no other way I can illustrate that these guys are acting contrary to everything they purport to be. We will beat them at their own game here.

Your first paragraph I have quoted is exactly symptomatic of the neo scene. There are two aspect of moksha (enlightenment). One is knowing you are Brahman. This is whhat JS claims as self-realization. He also says this is moksha. Which is isn't. Tradtional Vedanta says there is no such thing as self-realization. It is here that neo's generally will stop, and this creates problems.

The reason why it creates problems is that, ok, you know you are Brahman, but so what? that has to mean something to life. JS does then mention actualuization. And then tripti. Perfect satisfaction.

There is however, only assimilation, and only one moksha. No grades. Also, simply because one is liberated (Jnani/Enlightened) does not in any way mean that stuff wont come up for them to resolve. There is no 'fully cooked' thing. And this is a humbling concept.

Assimilation takes as long as it takes, but should one try to teach early, or go it alone too soon, there can be issues. One is that the highly sattvic states of savilkalpa samadhi interwined with not-assimilated, therefore merely academic knowledge makes one being the most troublesome of things = Spiritual By-passing. And this can be very dangerous.

The tradtion has safeguards in place. In that in the second stage of sadhana, which is called manana, the student may teach, but it is generally supervised. This is also where the appropriate relationship between teacher and student is also meant to protect the process. The teacher remains impersonal, so the student does not have the avenue to challenge (at this point) as they would only be challenging scripture. However, should the boundaries be crossed, the student then may see the person in the teacher, and that may entice the student to elevate themselves to the level of thinking they know best. And since they are untrained, still going through the process deep samskaras can cause problesm.

I'm speaking here about totally appropriate teaching. Of course, great care should be took in things being morally right. Now that i mention that, no Vedanta teacher should be ego-busting. I know for a fact JS and his cronies do this. It is widespread in Shiningworld, and it has left many traumatized. Many have came to me and told me this. I can't even begin to describe how widespread this is.

These problems come from having only the first aspect of enlightenment, alongside a sattvic buzz. So is ain't enlightenemnt. Bascially if the person is not humble, if they think they are doing something special, and that they are special or superior, if they lack compassion and empathy, if they dont adhere to what is morally and legally right, then they aint what they say.

Scripture does say there can be slight gray areas, but one gets their moral compass from what society expects. Generally morality and law is based on Dharma. It's a good yard stick. Teachers cannot hide behind scripture. For, Isvara has provided the law as a protector of dharma. So anything illegal, or even morally wrong, is adharmic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It's appropriate to have judegments though Sahara71 isnt it? One has to. If we dont listen to our inner voice, then what hope does humanity have for growth?

All it takes is one voice, or a collection of voices such as this forum, such as this, to tip the balance.

Shiningworld most certainly tick 7 out of ten hallmarks of a cult. And possibly eight. Any group that tries to control and manipulate people ongoing, creates a palpable atmosphere of fear, ostrcises any person who sticks up for themseleves, withholds spiritual teaching as punishments, interferes considerably in students lives, has sex between teachers and students. I mean, please, the world simply must get real.

And it IS getting real. As far as Shiningworld is concerned, they are likely on their way out. Sure they will market hype, but they operate out of fear, no matter what they say. And fear, well it is weak. and that is where we have them by the nuts. Because the truth, will out, and we have dharma on our side. More and more people are leaving shiningworld all the time.

It's at the tipping point now. Gathering momentum.

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