More disturbing news. They have a new, 'enforcer', a person who tells dissidents, 'I'm a 6 foot+ ex marine biker' The implication being, I am a trained killer.

He works in a well paid IT job, around £23K / $40K worth of income (boasted about on his livejournal blog). Again, using the threat of, " I can afford to take any legal action I want against you". He has 'blackmailed' people into writing letters of apology to him (and the PA) on pain of legal persecution, even going as far as saying he can have people 'removed forever from the internet' And what made him act thus? A heated conversation on the telephone asking for the right to reply to lies on his web forum. The 6 foot trained killer claimed, 'i felt threatened', when talking to a person he knows is disabled. What would a 6 foot trained killer have to fear from anyone? Nothing. This is used as an excuse to silence opposition.

What normal pagan group would act this way? This PROVES the PA is becoming more and more dangerous and cult-like in it's workings. If they had nothing to hide they would not allow people like this as members.

This is a direct post form one of his e-mails where it's stated that the, 'matter' will be over if they get a letter. The matter being implications of violence (I'm a 6foot+ ex marine biker) and legal persecution.

"The matter as far as I am concerned upon receipt of the letter is closed.

However, you are not welcome on *************** or any associated sites owned
by the Admin.


All of the above can be supported by documentation.

A lot of individuals/members of the p.a seem very keen that opposition should be silenced.

They monitor and limit what is said on pagan forums, while the leaders of the p.a are allowed to swear at and bully new people they don't know, via PM on those forums.

Could it be that the p.a deliberately try and ingratiate themselves with those who run forums, so as to control their content?

Surely not.
Love
Kath

This is what she sent a contributor to a pagan forum, who is new and she does not know, via PM:-

[b:e4f5350658]Why are you posting bullshit? Can you tell me which moot co-ordinators were "pressured" to step down in order to pave the way for pro-PA organisers to make the moot join the PA? That's complete bullshit. I don't know who you are or if we've ever met, but I can only guess you're listening to rumours and have never met anyone from the PA.

Moots only become PA when the majority of people at the moot want them to be PA. If they don't then the moot isn't PA.

Kath is also talking bullshit because she can't stand the fact that the police and CPA knew she was lying and didn't take her or her malicious bullshit seriously.

I'm probably talking to a brickwall but I thought I'd let you know the otherside of the story.

bb
Rhiannon[/b:e4f5350658]

Interesting that if the police didn't take me seriously, they still investigated the chairman of the p.a for 8 months. And when the CPS finally decided against a trial, the Detective Sergeant said to me 'we really thought we'd get him.'
Love
Kath

[b:e4f5350658]Moderator Notes:[/b:e4f5350658]

A woman identifying herself as a "partner" of Martin Williams made the following statement offering her version of events.

Quote

Yes she did go to the police, but they threw the case out, as out of 26 witnesses no one could back up her claims - we only asked that they tell the police the truth. The reason the police took 8 months was because they saw it as low priority, not because they were doing lots of investigation. Despite the police treating my partner well, it was still an horrendous time for us, as you can imagine. Within British law there are two crimes for which bail is not automatically granted - murder and rape. The fact that Martin was bailed unconditionally speaks volumes for how seriously the police took Kath's allegations. Anyway, I have no need to defend either myself or my partner's actions. Suffice to say that no charges of rape were made by the police

I can honestly call myself Pagan, and from my knowledge of the PA, eh yeah, its one of the dont brow beat my religion type deals.

Kath I totally agree with, my family and I have believed that the PA has needed to be removed for years because of the allegations and what not.

Just about like Satanism, man I can't stand those people.

Keep up the good work Kath!

Pheebs

Quote
pheebs
Kath I totally agree with, my family and I have believed that the PA has needed to be removed for years because of the allegations and what not.


Pheebs

Hi Pheebs, what has been your experience with the P.A. and what allegations have you heard?

Only it'd be good to hear about them from your perspective.

Would I know you and your family? Have you tried any of the new P.A. free forums and moots?

If you don't feel you can write in the thread then I'd love a PM from you.
Love
Kath

Kath -

Perhaps one of the best things you can do is to start a website that shares pertinent information about the cult with the UK public. If I may suggest something, it might be best not to focus on wiping out the cult per se. Cults have been a universal part of the human experience throughout human history, in every religion - pagan, Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Hindu. However, that being said, you can provide much needed information to the public via the website. Then the situation changes; you don't ever have to win in the strict sense of the word. All you have to do is survive to provide a counterpoint to their lies and propoganda. Survival is, in essence, winning.

- Here is a Legal Discliamer you may want to use on your site. It is geared for the Opus Dei cult and US laws, but with a few minor changes it can be used for British cults:
[home.netcom.com]

- Here is a Cease and Desist Letter/Order, to be used against cultic individuals when they start to harass you:
[www.crcnyc.net]

- Be sure to send the Cease and Desist Letter to the local police and to have the delivery recorded. In the US we use something called Certified/Return Receipt or FedEx Ground.

- On the website, try not to make definitive statements. Try to use proper legal terminology, like:
"A number of people are of the opinion that this group is cult-like"
"It has been observed that the people in this group have treated their members in a vicious fashion using mind control techniques"

- You may want to establish contact with a local lawyer to assist you.

- DNE - Do Not Engage!! Under any circumstances, do not engage any cultic member in argument or discussion via email, phone, letters or in person. They will try to draw you into an argument/fight and then go to the local police to say that they are victims of your harassment. If they start to send you letters/emails/calls, send them the Cease and Desist Letter. You are not here to engage them in debate; you are here to share information/experiences with other British citizens that may help them.

Peace,
Matt
New York City, USA

I realise that this is a late addition to this thread, but I came upon this website and thread today whilst actually looking for something unrelated!
I am aware of the Pagan Association in so much as that I attended a couple of moots about four years ago after being emailed by the treasurer.
Suffice to say, it was not my scene.
During the few times that I was there it was made obvious that there was a great deal of bitterness from the treasurer and her partner towards other Pagan groups in the area.
I also felt very uncomfortable, sometimes to the point where I felt my beliefs were being scrutinised because I do not practice in the same way as the leaders of the PA. During one conversation with the founders, it was expressed by one of them that I probably hadn't found my true path yet and that if I stayed with the PA I would be given guidance.
Since then I've had nothing at all to do with them.
Every now and then I'll be on a pagan-focused website and the PA will pop up somewhere.
Something I noticed recently is that Martin Williams is listed on Wikipedia under the header of "This is a list of historical individuals notable for their Pagan religion (as opposed to Abrahamic religions), and modern individuals who self-describe as adherents
of some form of Paganism or Neopaganism".
[en.wikipedia.org]
I find that quite strange considering that the PA aim is to organise moots and events, and is not supposed to be a religious movement of any kind.

Shea, the leaders of the P.A see paganism very much as a Religion, and are involved with inter-faith, chatting to Bishops etc. Ironic really, considering their reputation:)

Are you still involved in paganism? There are some ok people around nowadays, finally.

Love
Kath

I removed the mention of him on that wikipedia list. All the links to entries about him were deleted months ago as P.A. are deemed not noteworthy and were merely using wikipedia as free advertising space.
Love
Kath

Someone has been telling me new anecdotes about the PA. How I wish they were true!

But I feel I need to double check everything as the PA have made sure all their opponents have been discredited so people doubt the truth when they tell it.
Love
Kath

(update later in the thread)