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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Jerkchicken ()
Date: November 05, 2018 11:01AM

happytown()

Looking at your old posts, you seem to have had some bad experiences. I pray you find some peace in your life.

Posted by: happytown ()
Date: March 18, 2017 05:15AM

I'm in therapy after experiencing extreme trauma from time in a spiritual group.

A few people have recommended this EMDR for trauma. But my therapist said for this kind of complex emotional trauma its not really effective.

Does anyone have a second opinion or experience on this?

Can't move most days. When I do get out of the house I return triggered and exhausted. I'm slowly getting better and looking for ways to support myself.

Many thanks




Posted by: happytown ()
Date: February 11, 2017 05:24AM

So I've been involved with three spiritual groups, and they've all ended badly.

But thousands of people in the groups are happy and flourishing. I've been drawn into these groups by a need to belong. I have a tendency to be a know-it-all and have suffered group attempts to "bring me down a peg or two".

I've been accused of "resistance", and if I would just "surrender" to the guru then everything would be ok. But I'm now on medicine and in therapy.

I can clearly identify some things which are "bad" e.g. deliberate double-binds, boot-camp style toughness designed to break me. Deliberate miscommunication and mishandling of situations designed to cause distress to my evil ego. I have a history of psychosis, and it quickly sent me into a tailspin that I recognised: but the diagnosis was that I was going through my "dark night of the soul".

The message I get from therapists (and from some people in the groups) is that "this kind of thing isn't for everyone". The mixed message there of course being that I'm too weak. I'm left not only angry but also with a constant fear that it's all my fault.

I have nothing like Scientology to grasp onto, where it's really obvious that how I've been treated is abuse. It's more subtle, like they thought they could help me but they couldn't, but there no room in the paradigm to admit they messed up.

It's just so overwhelmingly crippling. It's hard to let go of the idea that if it doesn't work out then it's my fault.

If anyone can relate, or just help to create some way of looking at this so I can move on, I'd be grateful. I've lost family, relationships and friends and I'm now totally alone.



I will give you some advice that Mooji recently gave to a former disciple of another guru.

The women mentioned that she was a devotee of a certain guru, and then tried another guru, maybe another, overall it did not end well and she did not have a good experience.

Moojis answer was (I will try to summarize) " you do not have to refer me to anything or anybody" he went on to explain that he did not intend to become a spiritual teacher, he actually tried to get away from all these people but somehow wherever he went , people would start asking him questions. It was never his intention for this to occur. He actually prefers that the relationship is such that you have a question, he gives some advice, if it doesn't work, maybe he will ask to you try something else. He prefers not to be worshiped but as AppleJuice mentioned, people do so.

My advice is not to get caught up in all this, I hope you can move on from your past experiences. I am not even suggesting you follow Mooji's teachings. I am just suggesting for your own sake you let it go. You can find faults in all the teachings, from the Bible to the Qua ran to the ancient Indian Scriptures. Why invest soo much energy ?



To answer a few of your questions:

Money - life is not free, money is needed. They have expensive camera / recording / broadcasting equipment which allows many people to view satsangs for free. Many such as applejuice are even given free accomodation in times of need.

Mooji personally lives in a very small space in Monte Sahaja. Its clean, simple and beautiful , but def not a luxury resort.

Money is needed for food, projects, construction, plane tickets to various places, etc.

Worldly Events - what is there to talk about , why get involved ? Let the TV reporters do that, he is only interested in liberation, not CNN politics.

As for Mental Health - you cant say he does not , many people have all sorts of problems, he deals with them as needed , everyone is different, you yourself should know this.

I hope you find some peace in your life.

:)

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 05, 2018 12:43PM

Jerkchicken,

It's a little bit condescending of you to tell Happytown to not invest his/her energy in this discussion and to "just let it go". You have joined the dicussion, you have written a long post and you have taken the time to look up privious posts by Happytown....

So why are you investing your time, if this discussion if it is so very unimportant?

It's like you want to dismiss someone with genuine concerns about cult activity because you don't agree with them. I'm just assuming that you are not an experienced, registered mental health professional. I don't think you should tell someone who has experienced trauma to "just let it go" - I don't think it is appropriate to do that.

People need to be heard. People find talking about their experiences therapeutic. If it offends you so much, then please don't read it.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 05, 2018 01:03PM

Applejuice,

Thank you for confirming in writing that Moo has been in intimate sexual relationships with his female devotees. I'm hoping this means we can now talk about his relationships without being accused of slandering Old Moo!

The thing is this:

Moo bases his reputation as being a great spiritual teacher on being an "enlightened master". If he really were an enlightened spiritual being, then I seriously doubt he would turn to his own devotees for his sexual gratification. That's just not ethical at all!

Women (and men of course) seek out Moo for spiritual guidance or spiritual development. Often, a spiritual seeker will be in in a vulnerable state, because it is often a change in life circumstances that precedes a spiritual search or journey.

To take advantage of these women by engaging them in intimate relationships is just plain wrong. I don't care if these relationships are monogamous, non-secretive and last for a few years.... they are still not ethical, if Moo is who he claims to be - an enlightened being.

However, since Tony Moo is about as enlightened as my neighbor's dog, then these relationships are just normal human activity. They are not illegal, of course. But they are proof that Moo is a big fraud! He is frauduantly leading people up the garden path, selling them a lot of mumbo-jumbo that in many cases leads them to abandon their jobs and leave their families and end up destitute.

He takes advantage of people, he runs a cult and he talks a lot of asinine incomprehensible rubbish.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 05, 2018 01:22PM

And Applejuice,

Thank you very much for confirming in writing that Tony Moo uses trance-induction in order to hypnotise people without them even being aware. Since you have such close insider information, then we will take you word for it!

In The Invitation online, Moo states "this is not hypnosis" in order to disguise what he is doing and to deliberately deceive people. But you have confirmed that it is indeed trance induction, so you have outed Moo as a fraud.

Thank you.

You go on to state that it doesn't matter that Moo induces trace in his victims without their content, because you say he doesn't ask for money. But he does ask for money, Applejuice, his website blatantly asks for donations.

So people watch Moo's trance material online and then they see the little donation button on the very same website.

Applejuice, a truly spiritual being, an enlightened being, would never have a set up like that! It is very exploitative. It is not ethical at all.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Jerkchicken ()
Date: November 05, 2018 01:58PM

Then feel free to vent on :)

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Jerkchicken ()
Date: November 05, 2018 02:00PM

Then feel free to vent on :)


ahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jerkchicken,
>
> It's a little bit condescending of you to tell
> Happytown to not invest his/her energy in this
> discussion and to "just let it go". You
> have joined the dicussion, you have written
> a long post and you have taken the time to look up
> privious posts by Happytown....
>
> So why are you investing your time,
> if this discussion if it is so very unimportant?
>
> It's like you want to dismiss someone with genuine
> concerns about cult activity because you don't
> agree with them. I'm just assuming that you are
> not an experienced, registered mental health
> professional. I don't think you should tell
> someone who has experienced trauma to "just let it
> go" - I don't think it is appropriate to do that.
>
> People need to be heard. People find talking about
> their experiences therapeutic. If it offends you
> so much, then please don't read it.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 05, 2018 02:04PM

Applejuice,

Also thank you for reporting on the physical fight between Khrishnabai and Moo's most recent girlfriend. It doesn't sound like a very spiritual environment there at old Monte Sahaja if people are engaging in fist fights.

Afterwards, one of the fight participants leaves the compound.... It doesn't exactly sound like the disagreement was resolved!

It also doesn't sound like Poor old Krishnabai as quite the happy soul you claim her to be.

One cult member who was close to Moo flees in the middle of the night with her married lover....

Moo's girlfriend gets defeated in a physical altercation with his 'personal assistant' and she leaves...

Moo himself of has a series of monogamous relationships with devotees...

It sounds like a soap opera, not a spiritual community.

Please keep filling us in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 02:13PM by Sahara71.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 05, 2018 02:44PM

Sahara I never confirmed Mooji had sexual relations with his devotees. I have no idea where he met his girlfriend's. What I said was if these women started as devotees, then
he's only had a handful out of the thousands he meets each year. Hardly a sexual predator.

And I never confirmed he uses trance induction. I stated that in my own personal opinion, in the opinion of Applejuice an unqualified person it feels kind of like a trance. Someone else may disagree.

You know since you have so many questions, perhaps you should write to his website. Mooji and his team do respond to emails you know. I'm not part of his team as I made clear. It appears your grievance is that you did not become enlightened through his teachings. Perhaps you can stop listening to him and find another path that works for you? His teachings are not perfect, nobodies teachings are perfect.

I would also like to apologise for anyone reading if I named people. You can't go back and edit stuff out.

Monte Sahaja is not heaven on earth so it's good to let people know things are not perfect. People will have personal troubles even there. Not sure how this lends to the cult theory, or a place on chaos. And the events I mentioned were years between each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 02:54PM by Applejuice.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 05, 2018 02:52PM

Hey jerkchicken,

Nice post. To be honest my opinion on him not taking mental health seriously is that not everything can be cured by telling people they are not the mind. Some people need medication, and need to be looked after in a more natural way that even caters to their person identification. And like another user pointed out, some people give up things to stay in Monte Sahaja, but when they return home they have breakdowns because they can't cope with reality. I would say this is a flaw of Mooji.

It's good to have someone else back me on the worship thing. His own followers love him so much, they insist on worshipping him, touching his feet, and having his pictures everywhere. And Mooji just let's them I suppose. But he certainly doesn't ask for worship or to prove your obedience to him.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: November 05, 2018 05:22PM

Cults will always go after the person doing the criticising,in order to devalue the points themselves. It's par for the course. I'm fine thanks, I'm grateful you put my healing front and center in your decision to post.

"His followers insist on worshipping him"

What about his friends, his peers? Fellow teachers who he came up with? Those things that keep someone healthy. How about those people? How do they treat him? If his daughter/partner won the fist fight, does she get a throne too? Or is it a fiefdom?

The cultural appropriation of bhakti aside, is the act of worshipping him actually raising anyone up but Mooji? What's the purpose of the adulation.

As mentioned in that great article I posted about the dynamics:
"You want something better, and you come across a group that offers it. Many aspects are indeed better--it is great! But what is not obvious is how this is brought about. In high-demand groups there is a hidden agenda at work behind the scenes - strong pressure and invasive control to shape the group to the leader's expectations, rather than an environment of nurture to encourage individual growth in grace. Growth takes time. High-demand dynamics produce impressive results, but the cost is spiritual abuse."

[www.geftakysassembly.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 05:33PM by happytown.

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