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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 04, 2018 04:59PM

Rrmoderator I think I've covered your questions in my above post.

1. Allowing people to worship him
2. His teaching style
3. Not speaking on worldly events
4. Not taking mental health seriously enough

As for your money question, how on earth would I know how much he makes? I'm not his accountant. I know he doesn't live a life of luxury. And I'm certain he could if he wanted.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: November 04, 2018 05:49PM

- there is evidence of public humiliation in this thread. Mooji can say something disparaging about you and it will instantly affect how a large group of people will treat you. If you don't believe it, try stepping out of line.

-I spoke to someone about the hundreds of photos peppered throughout the ashram. They assured me there are none in the toilets. So definitely not a cult then. The toilet photos are a real giveaway. The fact that a guru won't respond when someone removes one photo is not indicative. He can just wait for his flying monkeys to respond to it.

- I am continually amazed by how people blame followers for leading the guru astray. But it seems to be the go-to scapegoating route. It is possible to tell people to not kiss your feet. You are either complicit in allowing people to touch your body, or you are being assaulted. But I hear you wish this would change. If Mooji wishes people would stop kissing his feet, perhaps he could go to the gift shop, which I'm sure he drives past several times a day, and tell them to stop selling massive pictures of his feet.

-I am aware of reports that people have been chastised for wearing clothes that are not quite the right shade. Can you check on this? Also, the wearing of white was something that Mooji supported, and which became a uniform. The argument being that it's for the team so that people can recognize them. But if you look at retreat videos and even Sunday satsangs there is a stark increase in the uniformity of dress of participants in the last 6 years.

- I have no idea about Mooji sex life other than earlier stories in this thread. I had not heard he had declared his celibacy, I'm surprised that didn't make it onto YouTube or the quote of the day. But relationships do not have to be sexual, and I am led to believe that Mooji is very much with the person you referred to. And that he thinks of her as a daughter. Which is not a crime, I agree. But is it really healthy to have no peers? I doubt it. Mooji seems to refer to people as 'friends', and yet all friends seem to call him 'father'. In the same way the ashram suddenly becomes his 'home' any time the group wants to admonish someone's behavior. Shifting definitions depending on the situation.

- At the beginning of this thread, Mr/Ms Yam and I discussed the criteria for a thought reform environment and cults as laid out by Robert Lifton.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 05:59PM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 04, 2018 06:49PM

Like I said people love his photos. Ask them to remove it and you will have your answer.

Mooji could tell people not to kiss his feet, but he won't, and the people actually WANT to kiss his feet. I find it a bit weird, but there is a whole culture around kissing the feet of the master. They speak of feeling great joy when they do it. I touched his feet with my hand once just to see what all the fuss was about. It turns out they were just ordinary feet lol.

When I said he doesn't shame people I meant people who leave his ashram. Ex members are never spoken about in a negative light, and there is not a code of silence to never speak their name again or to never contact them. I already gave you an example of how we tried to contact the woman who left. And someone I know is still in touch with her.

I will concede that he doesn't handle criticism in the best way, and sometimes pokes fun at them in a subtle way. I guess he's not a perfect human being. Just like the rest of us.

You are correct about the uniform thing, my memory needed to be jogged. They wear white to distinguish themselves. The audience wears white more often because people want to follow his disciples. It's their choice. Sometimes a celebrity wears something, then everyone goes to the shop to purchase the same thing. It's how humans are. Never heard of someone being chastised for not wearing white?

He spoke of his celibacy in satsang, but it wasn't really an announcement. He just said it. Not sure why they would make a big deal of it or put it on youtube? He's not promoting this as a lifestyle, or telling his followers they should become celibate too. He was speaking only for himself. I don't share a bed with the guy so he could be with that woman. But it would have be tightly under wraps because I'm told by many people that is not the case. And you are right that if they were together it would not be sexual at least. I don't think you appreciate how difficult it would be to keep a secret like that at Monte Sahaja, privacy is limited. Even for Mooji. They are around people all the time.

Is it healthy to have no other peers? No, I agree. I'm told that she literally devotes her life to Mooji. Even other close disciples still have personal lives. They have partners, they have hobbies, things they do away from Monte Sahaja. But this womans entire life is Mooji. There isn't a balance. I know Mooji periodically sends his close followers back home for a while so they don't get too attached to him, not sure if he ever sent her back. But I must say she always seems happy. I remember seeing her once by a river. Mooji was there. She jumped in a boat she found and was rowing in a big circle. I thought it was hilarious. She had the time of her life! So she's not a secretly unhappy person.

I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because Mooji is not perfect, doesn't mean I will disregard all of his teachings. He say's a lot of profound stuff.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 04, 2018 07:46PM

I just spoke to someone about the suicide. The person travelled off the land to do it. And he did leave a note, but I don't know the content. I think the guy needed medication but stopped taking it. Nobody is sure why he did it. And he never told people prior that he was feeling depressed, it came as a shock to everyone.

His Mother actually went to Monte Sahaja after he passed, and told the Sangha that the only time he was happy was when he stayed at the ashram. She was grateful for what they did for him. So I don't think Mooji's teachings played a role in his suicide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:49PM by Applejuice.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 04, 2018 08:22PM

It is good to remember the rules that we all agreed to follow when registering
to use the CEI message board.

[forum.culteducation.com]

People are very interested in reading this discussion. View counts have been impressive - to say the least.

[forum.culteducation.com]

This Mooji discussion took off when xivoparig posted on August 10th, 2018.

[forum.culteducation.com]

And recently, Constantin has arrived.

Constantins posts are here.

[forum.culteducation.com]

To keep Constantin's posts from being drowned out, here is the first one.

Quote

https://forum.culteducation.com/posting.php?12,moderation,142901
Hello Everyone!

I was very happy to read this thread since many things that are said here have been watched here first hand. I have been with Mooji and later here at Sahaja since 2011.

Its very hard difficult to get out of this cult because the amount of bliss one can receive, or seemingly so.

But red flags kept coming over the years and now.....well it's not a question any more. Mooji is a cult. The amount of evidence is overwhelming.

We can go into detail all day, but i wish to make a few points that have not come to light in this thread so far.

Firstly Moo likes to control peoples lives, down to who they have sex with with. And because of this there are people going around to see who is sleeping with who.

Furthermore Moo has two faces, one in satsang, where he is lovely and friendly, and then there is the other guy who is very bad tempered and can be callus, rough and will talk behind your back.


Mooji does not follow through with things he says and promises. He makes big meetings about something very important, but then nothing happens.

So the outcome is more and more politics and power games within the Ashram.

And again I would like to point out that many of the stories you hear about Moo cult are true, of course not all of it. We always have to watch out for BS.

So thank you all again for this thread, truth is more important than farce.

C.L.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 08:31PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 04, 2018 08:38PM

"Furthermore Moo has two faces, one in satsang, where he is lovely and friendly, and then there is the other guy who is very bad tempered and can be callus, rough and will talk behind your back."

Let's just say don't believe everything you read. Never heard this said about him.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: November 04, 2018 08:38PM

Quote:
Re: Mooji a cult? Posted by: Applejuice November 04, 2018
...Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've followed Mooji's teachings for over 10 years on and off, so I witnessed him speak to a half empty room to forming Monte Sahaja and becoming a spiritual superstar. I have never lived at Monte Sahaja, although I stayed there for a few weeks.....

Some reactions and answers to Applejuice’s statements:

Mooji cult and narcisism evidences for instance:
i) Monte Sahaja webshop: [satsangshop.com]
Bead necklaces-Malas, Blessed By Sri Mooji selling for E20-E40.
ii) Monta Sahaja at Guru Purmina (Guru celebration) at 0:08 Mooji'mobile: [www.youtube.com]
iii) Mooji pics: [www.youtube.com] At 0:07, it's bizarre and unhealthy to look at a such large Mooji's photo.
iV) Mooji’s pedestial and golden picture frame: at 1:35; [www.youtube.com]

Mooji'sex life indications direct from Monte Sahaja for instance::
i) at Mooji a cult, 8/10/18, Xivoparig reported:: [forum.culteducation.com]
ii) at YT: [www.youtube.com] : one can look at Mooji's hands at 0:30, 3:18, and 11:12 and how the girls (blonde) behave intimately, they may remember what happened the last nights.
iii) Aga G also reported her experience here:: [chi-ting.blogspot.com]- sexual-politics-from-court-of.html

Mooji incomes in 2018 for instance: only fees for satsangs:
Intense Satsang –Lisbon-February: €220 x1500 people = €300 000
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-April: €375 x 850 people = €318 000
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-October: €375 x 850 people = €318 000
Monte Sahaja Retreat-June: €550 x 120 people = €66 000
Netherlands Retreat-August: €330 x 1500 people = €495 000
Added together, it will be about 1.5 mil. Euros, the estimated expenses could be about 0.5 mil. (like rents, tax, salaries and act.).
Mooji had traveled every year in Tiruvannamalai in 2009-2012 and in Rishikesh in 2013-2017 for giving satsangs. The both cities are known as a target of spiritual and culture tourism. Now he only runs satsangs in Europe with significant fees for it, by the way, it was against Indian culture in Tiruvannamalai /Rishikesh to charge for satsangs.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Applejuice ()
Date: November 04, 2018 09:14PM

"I started seeing some females who I met in similar situations as me who would have 'private talks' with Mooji and come out of rooms looking detached and something bubbling below. I had a friend, let's call her 'Sarah'. Whenever I asked Sarah what happened, she would put on a fake smile and spout that life is beautiful we have to believe."...

Looool. This is the most bogus report ever. Other people have pointed out inconsistencies with this report. It's likely from a troll account. Somebody else said they won't point out what is wrong with this account so they don't give people a chance to clear it up. I will follow the trend and not point it out. But it's false. This is not evidence of Mooji's supposed sex life whatsoever. The story doesn't add up.

I didn't want to get to a point where I have to defend Mooji, but that report is so ridiculous I have to point it out.

And that video is even more ridiculous. My word, have you never attended satsang in person? People are very touchy feely, he holds mens hands a lot too. He held my hand. Am I in a secret relationship with Mooji? In fact I know both of those women, and one is married. This is another clear example of how assumptions can lead to misinformation.

The reports on that satire website seem fake. Mooji apparently told a woman he felt tortured because she would not have sex with him? I have to dismiss all of this as gossip. I know you'll say I'm an apologist of some kind, but anyone who has been around the Sangha will admit these things read as fake. They would need to provide a more detailed account for it to be believable, but they would not, because it would be open for more scrutiny and would reveal obvious fallacies in their story.

Like I said, don't believe everything you read.

To people in the Sangha Mooji is now celibate, but had previous long term relationships. To people on message boards he's a sex maniac who preys on young women and gets his close followers(a few I know personally) to groom women(which I have never witnessed or heard about). I will also let you know since reading this thread I've contacted 5 people, 3 who have stayed there for a few months, 2 still living there. The sex allegations are so unbelievable it makes my head spin. Until you can provide proper evidence or a real DETAILED account, this is slander.

Mooji makes money from Satsang. What is your point? If you don't want to go, you can watch the hundreds of free youtube videos he has available. You know both the official and unofficial for not being in India. I was told today that he will in fact travel to India shortly.

And I told you about the pictures. People want them. You have to ask the people to remove them, and then you will receive your answer. Go on, ask a Mooji follower not to display his picture, or reason that it should not be sold. Then you will see it's not him doing it, rather he just allows it.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 09:30PM by Applejuice.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 04, 2018 10:03PM

Applejuice:

No speaking on worldly events seems incidental and neither definitively wrong or right.

But what is it about Moo's "teaching style" that you think is wrong?

What does "not taking mental health seriously enough" mean? This seems rather vague. Can you be more specific?

And becoming an object of worship is the single most salient defining element of a destructive cult.

See [www.culteducation.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 04, 2018 10:19PM

Applejuice:

You have been involved with Moo for a number of years and seem to be quite committed based upon the number of posts you have made here defending him. And yet you have no idea what is going on financially and how much money Moo derives from the group?

So it seems the Moo group has little if any financial transparency and no one, even long time devotees like you, really know where the money goes and how Moo may use the money for his personal needs.

But you tacitly acknowledge that there is quite a bit of money flowing through, which could provide Moo with a "life of luxury."

Interesting.

This apparently is essentially a totalitarian group and Moo has little if any meaningful accountability. And there is no financial transparency that is readily seen by anyone, including people like you that have been around for years.

Moo could be doing anything with the money and you and the other devotees would not know due to the way he has chosen to run the group/community.

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