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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: July 09, 2017 08:16AM

t h e r e is s o m e l i n k s t o M o o j i - P a p a j i o n y o u t u b e
W h e n M o o j i M e t P a p a j i &a S a t s a n g W i t h P a p a j i &a F i x e d V i d e o
M o o j i B a b a r e t u r n s t o t h e h o m e o f h i s M a s t e r P a p a j i
P a p a j i t a l k i n g w i t h m o o j i i n 1 9 9 3

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Re: Older thread here
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: July 18, 2017 06:59AM

Horowitz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please, do you know if Mooji is married now and
> have a children and a wife in Ashram. Have you
> heard anything in Ashram in Portugal during your
> visit. l would like to know more about his
> personal life....
>
> Horowitz


I have been told that this woman: [secure.meetupstatic.com]

named Radha (given that name by Mooji, making him of course Krishna according to the Hindu mythology they use) was previously his partner, but has now been completely excised from their official photos website, along with other ex-members. You can still find her on videos pre-2014, sitting next to Mooji.

Despite playing a major role in the formation of his center and group up until Mooji ended the relationship in favor of his current partner (the young blonde girl seen on many of the videos sitting right in front of him), once the relationship ended, Radha lost all status in the group and ultimately left. Her sister remains in the group and I haven't been told what their relationship is now.

So the question to ask is, how many people were looking up to Radha before she lost her status? And what happened once Mooji ended the relationship for another woman? Did she suddenly find herself alone and unsupported? Was she allowed to be angry? Or was it placed on her? Are there people quietly believing she was treated very badly, but too invested to speak up? If the actions of the 'master' can completely undermine someone but can't be questioned, but the responsibility and 'sin' can be placed on the 'devotee' regardless of how much they may have given to the 'cause', can that be healthy?

I appreciate this is all hearsay so, if someone has access to Mooji, please ask him!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2017 07:01AM by happytown.

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Re: Older thread here
Posted by: goneinawhistle ()
Date: August 10, 2017 04:04AM

Concerning the video above which purportedly shows Mooji returning to the house of his master 'Poonjiji'. (there's no link, but it's this one [www.youtube.com]. You may need a sickbag)

Although this is one of the few apparent attempts to legitimize Mooji on the internet (presumably if anything else existed it would be everywhere), in fact his going there doesn't signify any special status. He only needed the permission of the owners of the building. One would assume they wouldn't pass up such an opportunity for so many westerners to come to town.

Poonjiji himself also was not given any permission to teach, but just set himself up. He apparently left his family and married a much younger woman called Ganga Mira, one of his students. She now lives only a few hours away from Mooji in Portugal but has her own completely separate group and internet following.

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Re: Older thread here
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: August 10, 2017 11:46PM

In 2011 his ashram referred to as "the land of Mooji and Radha":
[oshosgarden.wordpress.com]

But how many who live there now have even heard of her? Not many I bet.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: August 13, 2017 03:17AM

Here is a quote by David Godman, the writer of so many books on Papaji, Mooji's "guru". Many of which you can no doubt purchase in Mooji's gift shop.

"David Godman said...
Anonymous, and others

In the years I spent with Papaji I never once heard him say that any of his own devotees were 'jnanis'. Though he declared that many people had experienced 'enlightenment' in his presence, he seemed to regard enlightenment as a way station on the way to the final sahaja state. On page 406 of volume three of Nothing Ever Happened there is an extract from one of his letters to a devotee in which he wrote:

'You have won enlightenment. Now you have to go beyond, on the raft of this enlightenmment, to the unmanifest supreme, turiyatita sahaja stithi.'

The subsequent paragraphs (an interview between myself and Papaji) expand on this statement.

A limited number of people were given permission by Papaji to teach. When he was asked publicly about this, he said that they were 'messengers', not Gurus in their own right. Mooji did not even make this list.

Papaji said that everyone had his permission to tell their friends, relatives and acquaintances that suffering was illusory, and that happiness was one's birthright. He said that people needed to hear this message again and again since we have all been conditioned to believe otherwise. He also said that people had his permission to speak about what had happened to them in Lucknow. This led many people to set themselves up as teachers, usually without his permission. In January 1994 he more or less disowned all the 'messengers', saying that their egos had got the better of them and that they had all become arrogant. He compared the messengers to ambassadors who had been sent out to pass on his message. Instead of being content with being ambassadors, he said, they had tried to set themselves up as kings and queens of their respective countries.
"

You can find this quote here at [sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.com]

There is a lot of assumptions I have to make here, i.e. for David Godman's word to be legit, then Papaji has to be legit, therefore Mooji is not legit. Or the any combination of these. But the point is, hypocrisy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2017 03:19AM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: August 13, 2017 05:14AM

If you wanted to do an analysis of the psychological pressures being placed on people (note the public shaming of the lieutenant at the beginning) then this video really shows it the best I've seen so far:

[www.youtube.com]

Note the extreme tension at the beginning and then how it is slowly lifted into euphoria and people professing their devotion.

It's quite hard to see this kind of video now without going behind their paywall for $20 a month.

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Poonja has done a lot of damage - some things to read
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2017 12:05AM

(Here are some things to read about Poonja. Get a tall cup of your favorite
beverage, sit down and be prepared to read for a long time)

Poonja's worst blunder was when he declared that Andrew Cohen was enlightened
and told Cohen to go out and "Start a revolution amongst the young!"

Andrew Cohen went on to become an utterly brutal and abusive guru.

Hal Blacker, former Cohen disciple created a blog, Whatnelightenment blogspot

[www.google.com]

Three of Cohen's disciples published memoirs

Luna Tarlo The Mother of God

[www.google.com]

Andre van der Braak Enlightenment Blues

[www.google.com]

Bill Yenner American Guru

[www.google.com]

Luna Tarlo, Cohen's mother, met Poonja in the 1980s, and witnessed P'
in those early days and witnessed
Poonja's day to day behavior.

Tarlo reports that Poonja declared that his wife was enlightened, yet his missus still did all the housework. He declared Tarlo enlightened, yet Tarlo found this confusing -- and she became more dependent on Pooja and her son for guidance. (Corboy - to me, this gives the show away.)

Tarlo's very detailed description of Poonja and Poonja's household gives a reality check. You can find this in Tarlo's memoir, The Mother of God

[forum.culteducation.com]

Pooja declared a former Andrew Cohen disciple, Antoinette Warner or Varner
enlightened, and called her Gangaji.

Quote

‘Many come to (Andrew Cohen) expecting to find a teacher of enlightenment will give them a profound spiritual experience. Instead they are told off about their lack of willingness to change themselves.

Many people perceive this as a kind of moralizing they can do without, and decide to go to the source itself, and visit Poonja in India, as do some of the students who have been sent away from the community by Andrew. (Cohen
would eject people and order remaining disciples to shun them) To their relief, and to Andrew’s displeasure, they receive a warm welcome. Some of them, having received Poonja’s enlightement, are sent back to the West to teach others.

‘The most importnt of these is an American woman named Antoinette Varner, who had been with Andrew in satsang a few months before going off to see Poonja. Poonja gives her the name Gangaji and sends her out to teach in places where Andrew has been teaching. He tells her to “clean up after Andrew” restorethe proper understanding of Advaita Vedanta, and heal any egos that have been wounded. We hear that Poonja talks about us as “sheep” that merely follow an authority, which he considers antithetical to true freedomnd enlightenment. Enlightenment Blues pp. 101-102 Andre van der Braak), 2002

Luna Tarlo described this same situation toward the end of "Mother of God"

Quote

‘A lot of what Poonja said about Andrew was true, that he couldnt tolerate being criticized that his disciples were afraid of him, and that Andrew’s notion of communal sangha life was for sheep. But the fact was, Poonja couldn't stand being criticized, either. And he had shown himself to be a hypocrite.

For example, I heard he told a former student of Andrew’s now called Gangaji, and presently operating successfully as a guru out of Hawaii, he had been waiting for her too, all of his life, and as he had said, after teaching Andrew, he ws ready to die! (She subsequently became Poonja’s replacement for Andrew ....

"When I met Poonja for the first time in India, he was a man in his seventies, who after many years as a guru, had surprisingly few followers. I think Tarlo he was hungry for fame, and when he met Andrew he must have seen a golden opportunity to broadcast his name in America by inflaming this young person’s impressionable mind with ideas of ‘starting a revolution amongst the young’.

‘Then, when Andrew turned out to be unsuitable, it took him no time at all to find a replacement from amongst Andrew’s disaffected following. And the strategy worked. He is now regarded as one of India's foremost gurus.’ (Luna Tarlo, The Mother of God, 1997,286-287)

Gangaji and her husband, Eli Jaxon-Bear, later had a scandal of their own.

[www.google.com] enlightened (An

There's another saying attributed to Poonja:

That he gave people enlightenment experiences to
get them off his back, or as he so compassionately put it,
"to get the leeches off his back"

[www.google.com]

Long before Moo established himeself on the satsang circuit, there were others
who claimed to have become enlightened via Poonja.

Timothy Conway has observed the "neo-advaita" scene for many years. Here is
an interesting article.

[www.enlightened-spirituality.org]

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Poonja perhaps attracted already ambitious ego driven people
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2017 12:18AM

It is possible that Poonja gained a reputation as a person who could bestow
instant guru credentials on someone ambitious and give them a backstory.

Andrew Cohen appears to have been Poonja's first lab rat. Now Tiruvannamalai
is full of them.

Poonja may not have ever intended to start out this way, but it appears
he continued to do his "magic zap" long after P's first known protege
turned into a bully.

IMO, Poonja misused his own charisma. I doubt it was magic. P probably learned
guru language and some trance induction techniques.

Years back, when Luna Tarlo's Mother of God, was the only disciple memoir
available on Andrew Cohen, I remember feeling as puzzled as Tarlo was.

Tarlo, as Andrew's mother described how her son struggled with shyness
and inferiority, constantly attaching himself to spiritual mentors.

When Cohen excitedly sent a letter (this was the 1980s) telling Tarlo
that he'd become enlightened, join him in India, she arrived to find
that her son had undergone what seemed a magical transformation.

Formerly awkward and unsure of himself, Andrew Cohen claimed to have
been enlightened by Poonja, and was now charismatic, eloquent, invincible
in argument.

It seemed that magic was real and that Poonja had worked a magic cure.

But, it soon turned out that Andrew Cohen was now domineering, unpredicable and
cruel, vandalizing the minds and hearts of all who trusted him.

What Tarlo did not know at that time was that prior to India, and prior to meeting Poonja, Cohen was already ambitious to become a guru. He had the ambition, he visited other gurus.

One of the gurus he visited was Adi Dam,

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: September 14, 2017 02:44PM

Mooji has apparently chosen not to go to India for the first time in many years this year. No information given, but I'm reading more and more news reports that even in India (see article below about Mooji and other Western gurus) the tide is turning.

"“What’s common to [these Gurus], other than their outlook on rule-free spirituality, are their thick passports, and their even bigger travel budgets!” he says, only half in jest. “There is a big market for these gurus among the bigger mass of gullible folks who are looking to be “carried forward”. Just take your pick.” Yes, if life has recently dealt a couple of hard knocks, you can add as many gurus to your cart and check out."

[www.outlookindia.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: September 21, 2017 03:10AM

So Mooji is apparently branding his process as something called "The Invitation" now. At first, I couldn't really see what the difference was between his talks/guided meditations and this new product.

But on closer inspection he appears to have just introduced 'yes-sets' (actually they start as 'no-sets' and then turn into 'yes-sets') into the conversation. It is so basic that I missed it. I remember reading about this in all the cult texts. Byron Katie uses this in "The Work".

My first google search came up with it as a sales technique:
[changingminds.org]

Then in the context of cults thanks to Corboy regarding Andrew Cohen in 2011:
[forum.culteducation.com]

Any other links to debunk this new manipulation technique much appreciated.

Mooji's 'invitation' is here:
[www.youtube.com]

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