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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 21, 2017 06:35AM

Andrew Cohen got much of his training on what I call the "satsang circuit"
before he opened his own franchise.

Here is an observation by an Indian psychiatrist, also Hindu, who visited
gurus and temples seeking to understand the special features of these groups and the relationships devotees form in relation to the guru and each other.

In this selection, Kakar describes how being in a waiting crowd of devotees has in itself an immensely powerful effect long before the guru arrives and sits upon his throne.

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"on this day and the following days, fantasies that
bubble up to the fore of consciousness as one
sits ensconced in the warmth and closeness of
thousands of bodies. At first there is a sense
of unease as the body, the container of our
individuality and demarcator of our spatial
boundaries is sharply wrenched awy
from its habitual way of experiencing others.
For as we grow up, the touch of others, once
so deliberately courted and responded to with
delight, increasingly becomes ambivalent.

Coming from a loved one, touch is deliciously
welcomed; with strangers, on the other hand,
there is an involuntary shrinking of the body,
their touch taking on the menacing air of invasion
by the Other. But once the fear of touch disappeas
in the fierce press of other bodies, and the
individual lets himself become a part of the
crowd's density, the original apprehension is
gradually transformed into an expansiveness
that stretches to include the others.

Distances and differences, of status, age, and sex,
disappear in an exhilarating feeling (temporary
to be sure) that individual boundaries can be
transcended were perhaps illusory in the first
place.

For more information go here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

Many devotees get genuine relief. Dr. Kakar was troubled by one subgroup of devotees who appeared to reject more mature aspects of themselves.

Quote

"From the clinical viewpoint, however, I have also
felt that at least some of my interviewees seemed to be
striving for some kind of surrender of adulthood.
By "surrender of adulthood" to do not mean
the presence of childlike qualities enumerated above.
These are precious attributes of human beings, of
all ages.

"I am alluding here more to a hankering after absolute
mental states free of ambiguity and contradiction,
in which the onerousness of responsiblity is renounced
together with the burdens of self criticism and doubt.
Concommittantly, the followers seemed to show an
intolerance for what clinicians would call the
"more adult" integrated mental states that invariably
contain a modicum of conflict and pain.

Dr. Kakar also describes how devotees idealize the guru and special dangers that await any guru as a result of all this adulation.

Quote

To be
consistently thought greater, more wonderful,
more intelligent than we are is a burden only
in the sense that we may feel impelled to be
greater, more wonderful, and more intelligent.

And indeed there is many a guru, including the
fictional one in R. K. Narayan's The Guide
who has become a guru because of the followers'
ascriptions of gurulike qualities to him.

More often, however, the guru simply accepts
these projections as belonging to himself and
enters into an unconscious collusion with the
followers--"I am uncannily sensitive, infinitely
wise, miraculously powerful: you are not."

--thus making the followers more stupid, more
infantile, and more powerless than they
actually are.

For the full quotation go here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

and in this same text, Kakar also tells us of the way gurus recycle the
same familiar material again and again and again.

We see the same thing on the satsang circuit, yoga classes, buddhism classes, yada, yada.

A lot of modern teachers also throw in whatever is currently popular on the Internet.

Some years ago, I heard teachers frequently reference g Jean Bolte-Taylor's "Stroke of Insight" at the time that was hot on the griddle.

Years earlier, they'd refer to "What the Bleep Do We Know?"

Then mirror neurons became a chic topic for dharma teachers.

[www.google.com]

If teaching dharma, you are pledged to help dispel delusion, not add to it.

Information reported by scientists remains reliable only if reported in a way
that states whether the results are part of a pattern that establishes it as "robust evidence -- vs. a preliminary finding that is interesting but must be replicated before it is considered reliable evidence.

If preliminary findings are sensationalized by the media and by appropriated by dharma teachers as though they are well established, such information is transformed into pseudoscience.

Quote

The intellectual contents of Maharaji's discourse
are familiar since they are common to many mystical
traditions, Indian as well as of other societies.

To list some of these repetitive elements:

there is the derogation of the perceived real world and an
emphasis on its painful withholding nature;

there is the suggestion of mystical withdrawal as the
solution to the individual's psychic needs and life
problems;

there is the offer of a system of psycho-
logical and physiological practices by which a person
can deliberately and voluntarily seek detachment from
the everyday, external world, and replace it
with a heightened awareness of inner reality;

and,finally, there is a shared conviction that this
inner world possesses a much greater reality than
the outer world.

Emotionally, to an Indian, the familiarity of the
message, repeated often enough since the beginning
of childhood, constitutes its greatest strength
and attraction.

For the full text, read here:

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2017 06:36AM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: September 22, 2017 03:04AM

Thanks that's very helpful! It's so frustrating, just how people could fall for this. I feel so stupid for the all tricks three gurus/groups pulled on me, and now to see this in action is anguishing, while it now seems so obvious what a big game this all is. Some good friends enthralled by this nonsense.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 22, 2017 06:50AM

Our expectations change in all kinds of ways when we go to India or attend
a social gathering.

We are social mammals. Open systems.

We are wired to need and seek relationship. Why?

Social mammals are incapable of regulating thought, emotion and even physiology
unless we are in social relationships and in physical contact.

Human beings cannot develop and then maintain a functioning self and balanced emotions unless in social relationships. Just being in a group will influence
our physiology -- even calm us down if we are crabby from having been alone all day and then go see friends.

These days, many of us, even if we have had happy and secure upbringing, now live in societies where relationships and interaction are continually distorted and disrupted - overwork, excessive time spent commuting to and from work,
having our snouts constantly pasted to screens ---

To go to a group where we sit close to one another, no interference from outside, shared goal, where all gadgets are turned off, and all attention raptly focused on a guru or yoga teacher --

This is an oasis in the emotional desert.

It may even explain why yoga classes are so popular.

Its the one place where you can go, guilt free, and both give and be given
undivided attention, listen and be listened to.

Add in people's craving for enlightenment and you have something hella powerful.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: arunadasi ()
Date: September 26, 2017 03:50PM

To my knowledge Mooji has not been to Tiru for a number of years. I am there now. The conventionalal wisdom is that he had been banned because he does not pay taxes there although charging huge fees. He is certain not recognised as an authoritative teacher in Ramanashram.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 26, 2017 08:44PM

Very interesting.

In India, there's the elected government that issues tourist and residential visas,

Then there is the parallel government where you live, do business, own/maintain your property.

You can have an up to date visa but be unable to get anything done or hold on to what you've aquired unless you obtain and maintain the good will of local powerbrokers - which include the police, those who deliver water, those who
give access to the local power grid -- et cetera.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: September 26, 2017 09:17PM

Arundasi, can you investigate that more? I don't think he charges when in India, although maybe that's just when they are in rishikesh.

I checked on this and the standard party line is that "they couldn't find a venue big enough to house them in Tiru", although there are rumblings of vague political issues that aren't very clear. The same issues are apparently happening now to stop them going to Rishikesh in 2018. The party line being given is that Mooji needs to rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2017 09:17PM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: arunadasi ()
Date: September 27, 2017 10:59PM

My information is that he was banned because he came on a tourist visa but charged people large amounts and did not pay indian tax. I have no way of checking the figures but that's the rumour here.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: September 30, 2017 09:56PM

I hear they make a lot of money from the gift shop and that they are very careful that people don't put on their visa applications that they are doing volunteer work, even though he has a small army of westerners working for him for two months there each year.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: pattyduke ()
Date: October 14, 2017 02:03PM

Best to learn and discern for your self and not follow anyone. Sure you can gain some gem insights from some one like Mooji but in the end You & only You live your life on Your terms! Take what resonates for you and discard the rest....
Devote your time being your own brilliance sharing your gifts and innate talents with Community. :)

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 14, 2017 06:53PM

Thanks Pattyduke, I agree one should definitely not join a cult! :)

Unfortunately those people who live in what mooji people call their "close sangha family" are in no position to "take what resonates and discard the rest" as you say.

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