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Selfish Elites and Covid Ravaging India
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 21, 2021 10:32PM

India made the careers of the Neo Advaita gurus.

Tony Moo

Gangaji

Andrew Cohen

Poonja

--- and too many others to remember and name.

Where would Moo be had he not, in happier days, planted himself beneath the palm trees of Tiru and benefitted from the steady stream of Maharshi pilgrims?

Here is what is happenin in India, now that those who can escape have fled to safety:

'A Crime Against Humanity'- Aryndhati Roy

[www.theguardian.com]


Shed tears, tear our clothes, rage at what India and her people now endure from their selfish, myopic elites -- India, the romantic setting that has made the careers of so many gurus -- among them, Tony Moo.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2021 10:41PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Date: May 29, 2021 10:50PM

Hi Folks,
As more people are vaccinated and things open back up again, let's keep an eye out for how Tony Moo plays this.
No doubt his "ashram" will open again at some point, and he'll be peddling his "presence" and his "powerful satsang field" again.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 30, 2021 01:35AM

Yes, yes, yes to what too many suicides has written!

It looks like Portugal's tourism industry is starting to revive - cautiously.

American tourists still face restrictions on entry to Portugal - thanks to the anti science dweebs who influence our culture.

Per US State Department website

Quote

Entry and Exit Requirements

Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter?

No, U.S. citizens cannot travel directly from the United States to Portugal for non-essential travel (i.e. tourism).
Only Portuguese nationals, holders of Portuguese and EU-member residency permits, and holders of other long-term visas issued by Portuguese authorities may enter the country.

US citizens who are lawful residents of EU member states may enter Portugal.
For more information contact the nearest Portuguese Embassy or Consulate or the Portuguese immigration authorities at sef.pt

PLEASE NOTE: All authorized travelers arriving from the United States must present proof of a negative COVID-19 test conducted within the last 72 hours before boarding and at the airport. Passengers without a negative test result will be subject to mandatory testing at the airport at their own expense upon arrival, in addition to a mandatory quarantine by Portuguese health authorities.

By contrast, thanks to unified public health policies and overall respect for science based medicine Israeli and British citizens are allowed to travel to Portugal.

Israeli Tourists

[www.schengenvisainfo.com][/quote]

COVID-19 & EU Travel Restrictions /EU/Schengen

Council of EU Tells Member States to Open Borders for Israeli Tourists
May 6, 20211

British Tourists

[www.google.com][/quote]

Portugal’s Tourism is Coming Back

[www.gonomad.com]

So far, it does not look as though large public gatherings are permissible - though in Moo's cash strapped area, perhaps there will be a wink and a nod from local authorities. Let us see.

Unless Tony Moo and his minions have cleaned up their act, shit in a bucket
retreats will resume. As will ritual humiliation of disciples in public gatherings.

If there are vaccine refusers in Moo's ranks, and they bring new cases of Covid
into Portugal and into Moo's domain (and its local environs) Covid will be a problem for anyone also a vaccine refuser and to those immune compromised namely babies, elderly persons, and those immune compromised due to medical conditions.

Will Moo and the ashram deal with this responisbly?

We shall see.

Portugal tourism per the US Embassy:

Quote

https://pt.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

May 1, 2021
Schools: In-person classes open for all schools and universities.
Cinemas, theaters, museums, conference centers, and cultural centers open to the public.
Grocery stores and supermarkets must close at 9.00 pm on weekdays, and may remain open on weekends until 7.00 pm.
Public Services: Lojas do Cidadão open for in-person services by appointment only.
Cafés and Restaurants limited to groups of 6 inside and 10 outside, are permitted to be open until10.30 pm during weekdays and weekends.
Stores and shopping centers permitted to remain open until 9.00 pm on weekdays, and 7.00 pm on weekends and holidays.
Sports: All sports activities permitted including outdoor exercise. .
Gymnasiums fully open according to DGS health and safety regulations
Cultural events: Open to the public until 10.30 pm
Events: Large outdoor and indoor events resume at reduced capacity as determined by health authorities.
Hairdressers, manicurists, and barbers open by appointment only.
Weddings and baptisms permitted at 50% capacity.
Alcoholic beverages can only be sold until 8.00 pm in all establishments, including supermarkets.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2021 01:57AM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: aladdin_filep ()
Date: June 04, 2021 11:54PM

I pay attention to omens. Last week, when I awoke, I looked out of my window to see a huge heron land on the very top of the tallest tree that's visible out of my window. I was literally rubbing my eyes, because I've never seen a heron in real life before - in my small English town, I tend to see pigeons and blackbirds and other small birds, but this was majestic. Later that day, I went for a walk with my family, several miles from my house. During the walk we could see someone's private land with a small lake, and we saw an enormous heron swoop down and land on the bank of the lake. I was absolutely astonished at having seen TWO herons in one day, as I'm pretty sure I've never seen a heron in real life before.

The very next day - I'm not making this up - I found out about Mooji's unscrupulous behaviour. It was shocking to me. I've been watching Mooji videos a lot for the past two or three years. I came upon this thread, and I saw several claims that Mooji had ordered an employee to shoot a heron, corroborated by various commenters. So I had to search Google to see what herons symbolize when they come up as an omen.

The heron is a symbol for stillness, peace, tranquility, and meditation.

My experience over the past week has been like a fog lifting. I'm a sincere spiritual seeker, and I've found that even through youtube, Mooji has hindered my spiritual growth by keeping me in a state of unfulfilled aspiration. Please don't think of this as a compound in Portugal. This is a cult for the modern age. Millions of people watch his videos in their own homes and become indoctrinated, and I want to share with you how harmful it can be to your psychology, on a subtle level. This is a very serious case.

I would get into very unhealthy and damaging loops. My faith (which was like a sapling anyway because I was an atheist for my whole life, until a few years ago) was badly damaged by entrusting it into the hands of an authoritarian master. It was subject to a repetitive subtle trauma because of "teaching techniques" which I now understand to be ways of implanting suggestions which keep people at exactly the same level of spiritual aspiration: guilt-ridden unsuccessful seeking. The "all-or-nothing" mindset, and the suggestion that nothing else matters except for this "highest truth", made me feel a sustained level of failure and unworthiness which I started to integrate into my sense of self during the periods where I had had enough of Mooji. I would then come back a little while later, and each time, his golden snitch would be that much more difficult to find, and the frustration would build. The criticisms and doubts I had were cleverly built into his teachings: this was all just that demon called "mind."

I know there are MILLIONS of people caught in the loop of this vampiric authority figure, who have gladly accepted an opportunity to abdicate responsibility. The allure of becoming like Mooji isn't a desire to become enlightened, it's a desire to become a sociopathic narcissist. To be above everything, including your own conscience. As I was thinking about this yesterday, I heard this in one of Jordan Peterson's videos: "There must be few things in life more pleasurable than being a fully committed narcissist; to really believe that everything you do is right and you're a good person. And I suppose if you could wave a magic wand and rearrange your mind so that it was constantly telling you that, you'd do it, but you don't seem to be able to do that in relationship to your conscience." ...unless you can surgically remove your conscience under the guise of spirituality.


I can't stress this enough:

The "freedom" offered by Mooji's advaita is abdication of responsibility.

Various insights and breakthroughs I had had during the time that I followed Mooji were suppressed in my mind, because I had bought Mooji's suggestion that I wasn't "there" yet. He was an authority in the back of my mind, because I respected him and trusted him. And I say this as someone who always held Mooji at arm's length, questioned much of his teaching, and never bought into the worship. I was there for truth, and only truth. But now, I feel a slowly growing freedom, and I'm getting my own authority back. I've naturally felt like sharing some of my own insights on reddit, and I've received dozens of comments and messages from people saying they're eye opening, clear, and helpful, which has been amazing because I've been a shut-in for two years with hardly any human contact (for reasons other than Mooji, but his videos have played into this by making it feel totally acceptable, because I'm above the real world anyway). Last night I went for a walk and had a tiny interaction with a group of people, and as I walked away I could hear them going "aww, he was so nice!" (okay, so they were stoned teenagers... but still, nothing like this has happened before). I'm brighter and happier as a person.

The most telling and significant change is this: I can respect other people again. I've always been a compassionate person, but I've found myself feeling genuinely shocked during this past week when I've regarded people's emotions as REAL and WORTHWHILE... what kind of spell was I under?! I had bought into the arrogance that allows satsang audiences to openly ridicule and mock people. "Oh, this poor unenlightened whelk is experiencing one of their 'emotions'... how droll... if only she knew it was just an illusion." Wow. This is not a compassionate philosophy whatsoever.

To those who are "getting over" Mooji, I recommend taking a second look at advaita in general. It's so appealing to westerners, in my opinion, because it's very similar to modernism, and in particular, postmodernism. A valid translation of "advaita" would be "non-binary," and becoming "awakened" is like becoming "woke". I know this might seem like a stretch, but the through-line is this: an obsession with the self which accompanies a paranoid regard for the outside world as (potentially or actually) illusory. The deconstruction of language and meaning into a liberating nihilism. The suggestion that meaning is not real, it's projected from the mind. The single-minded obsession with maximizing happiness and removing suffering. In one word: fear. Descartes, the father of modernism, said that the world may be a hallucination given to him by an "evil demon," and therefore he can only trust his own existence, nothing else. This is very similar to some of the things Mooji says.

If you're looking for spirituality, boil it down to LOVE. Not just self love. Philosophies that centre around avoiding suffering, maximizing happiness, or overcoming ignorance, lead into long and painful journeys of frustration and tension, accompanied by bizarre and dishonest logic, and "truth" almost always gets distorted and redefined. The world is regarded as, at best, some kind of horrible mistake or nightmare, and at worst, "a game of transcendence" (not the REAL reality, but a kind of negativity-gauntlet you must pass in order to awaken to the real reality), a video game where the objective is to press pause and quit. It becomes the aspiration for spiritual suicide. Despite all this talk of "no effort," these philosophies are among the most extremely laborious human endeavors imaginable, because they're attempts to contort the human spirit into the shape of some worship-worthy being that's above everything. That's not you, I'm afraid. It comes with this backwards logic, "I'm perfect as I am, nothing else is needed" (i.e., I don't need to seek any goals or take on any responsibility) along with "my ego is a disease I want to be rid of" (i.e., I'm not perfect as I am).

Don't look for an easy fix. Don't look for a fix at all. Look for faith.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: aladdin_filep ()
Date: June 05, 2021 01:47AM

I'd also like to share this as a kind of out-there offering... I've found that actually asking for omens, in the style of divination, is a good way to get insights. When I first came across the suggestion that Mooji might not be all he's cracked up to be, I asked to receive an omen by clicking on a random Mooji video. I ended up with one that I had left half-watched, and here is the exact moment the video landed on:

[www.youtube.com]

If you rewind a bit, he was saying something very damning in the light of the evidence in this thread: the true self cannot sin. When you consider the list of sins he's accused of, it becomes clear that he's buying into a philosophy which allows him to abdicate moral responsibility, with the sincere belief that he isn't doing anything wrong, because he's above right and wrong. I know a lot of spiritually-minded people will be reading this, and he's accused of systematic sexual and psychological abuse, so it isn't easy, but my suggestion is that this is a challenge to our capacity for forgiveness. We should simultaneously forgive, and not tolerate his actions and claims to authority and superiority.

And for those who are trying to recover spiritually from this philosophy like I am, I'd also like to humbly suggest Joseph Campbell as an excellent source of truly valuable spirituality, compared from lots of different cultural sources. One of his personal philosophies was this: life is a "freefall into the unknown", which causes anxiety. The proper response is a change in perspective, to fall headfirst. That way, you turn the fall into a dive. He used Christ as a mythological example of somebody who embraced suffering rather than trying to run from it. He also uttered the oft-quoted pearl of wisdom "follow your bliss," which was based on Hinduism. But he found that his students were using it as an opportunity to abdicate responsibility, and was quoted later in life as saying "I wish I had said follow your blisters."

Another author in this kind of vain who I would recommend to those who are suffering, and trying to bliss their way out of it with eastern spirituality, is Viktor Fankl. His book "Man's Search for Meaning" will help you understand that there's more to life than avoiding suffering. It was based on his experience in Auschwitz during World War II, and the observation that those who survived the suffering were those who felt a sense of meaning or purpose.

If you're open to it, there's a very deep lesson in overcoming Mooji and (in my opinion) advaita, about the difference between the selfless loving embrace of meaningful suffering, and the selfish fearful avoidance of both meaning itself, and suffering.

P.S. THANK YOU SO MUCH to those who have taken the risk of sharing their experiences. You've saved me, and many others, from an insidious trap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2021 01:52AM by aladdin_filep.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: aladdin_filep ()
Date: June 06, 2021 11:52PM

I feel like I should clarify my own feelings and insights about advaita, because of course the majority of people reading this will probably be advaita seekers/aspirants.

I'm not saying "advaita is garbage, throw it away." There's a subtle insight I had during my time watching Mooji's videos, and having been kept in the loop of "not-there-yet" under the thumb of an authority figure made me deny my own insight as some kind of arrogant treason. One of the ways in which he does this, by the way, is by a repeated suggestion during "the invitation" that by the end of the invitation you can "take all your things back" and go back into delusion (you'll know this if you've watched the invitation). He intentionally creates an open loop. Attainment or success is not an option. My advice is, don't focus on overcoming delusion or ignorance, focus on attaining the truth.

So here's my insight.

Our existence can be separated into a simple binary. On the one hand there is consciousness, which is pure/empty and non-dual (advaita), and on the other hand there is creation, or the objects of consciousness, which is full of dualistic experiences (dvaita). The ironic mistake of advaita is an attached fixation on the non-dual half of this binary, and a fearful renunciation of duality. It's to notice that we're generally overly attached to duality, and then retaliate with a vengeance by becoming overly attached to non-duality. Then, unfounded assumptions are made which are integrated as beliefs. Namely:

- non-duality is God
- non-duality is the self
- duality is an illusion

The fact that God is clearly present in duality is downplayed. The fact that the self is also clearly present in duality is dismissed as illusion, and referred to as "self concept," "false self" or "ego." Please be careful to notice that these are 1) assumptions, and 2) ideas, or cognitive objects. You have to laboriously contort your viewpoint in order to see them as true. Pay attention to the fact that enlightened beings who have apparently removed their ego still use it to communicate. It isn't gone. Its disappearance is an IDEA, not a reality. With respect, the goal of removing the ego is a paranoid and fearful goal which deserves very careful examination, particularly because it seems to ruin more lives than it helps, and those who are helped by it tend to become unrelatable and alien, often regarding other people's feelings and preferences as illusions, and regarding normal people as "unconscious". It's a tall order to adopt this viewpoint without any arrogance whatsoever.

A key mistake is to conflate self with perception or consciousness (advaita, or non-duality). This is an assumption. Who says that self means the same thing as observation, or perception? On whose authority are you believing this? Who says you're not your body, or your sense of self, or your ego? It's true, you don't END at your body - you are MORE THAN your body, and you are infinite - but are you NOT your body? Didn't God, or the universe, or something, give you this body? Didn't you incarnate as this one, and not that one? Why is consciousness centred in this body and equipped with ego? Is it an evolutionary mistake, or a test? Note that the rejection of the "false self" leads to a viewpoint where that which is naturally felt as true is regarded as illusion or ignorance, and the alternative viewpoint is LABELLED self-evident, when in reality, it requires systematic and repeated contortion of one's viewpoint by years of prolonged and sustained effort, which is regarded as overcoming ignorance (deprogramming, or deconditioning). If it's so effortless and naturally true, why is it that in every case without exception it requires years and years of forcing yourself to believe in something?

So to bring it back to advaita and dvaita, which I call perception and creation... God is the UNION of perception and creation, not JUST perception. The bliss that advaita seekers and apparently enlightened people feel when they approach pure perception is actually LOVE, because this is a loving union. It isn't just what consciousness feels like. It's what the union of consciousness and its objects feels like. Consciousness and its objects are IN LOVE, and by shifting your attention to the fact that they're both always present at once, you shift your attention to this love. These two aspects of reality are, in fact, inseparable. Everything is really one. So when you put your attention on advaita, on consciousness, you are in fact putting your attention on the union of advaita and dvaita. The philosophy of advaita vedanta pollutes this experience, in my opinion, with particular IDEAS about what it is and what it means. We think that enlightened people are in a state of bliss because they have eliminated their sense of self. But 1) they haven't, they have just adopted an alternative belief about their sense of self; if they literally had no sense of self they would be in a state of confusion, and 2) the bliss isn't because of an absence of an illusion, it's because of the presence of an experience (the experience of union). You can easily become convinced that your self is an illusion without it producing an experience of bliss. And yes, people can come to a sense of union by looking past their experience of "I", but there are other ways of doing it. It's another conflation.

I recognize that this might sound harsh or difficult for people who have dedicated themselves to advaita. But if you're sincerely seeking the truth, and not just pleasant feelings, I believe I'm helping you. Since overcoming Mooji and beginning to question advaita in the light of my key insight having been un-repressed, I've finally started to feel the easy and effortless feelings of love which I used to be able to get to through prolonged sessions of tense effort. But the stoicism is removed. My emotions and feelings are coming back online, with lots of passion. The feelings of specialness and arrogance are disappearing. I'm getting less afraid of negative emotions and less needy for positive emotions. Spirituality shouldn't be about seeking positive emotions.

It's very simple: forget trying to overcome ignorance or illusions. Have faith that your existence is perfect as-is, without needing to delete or change anything, while also accepting that there may be goals you want to accomplish or dreams you want to follow (the point of your existence). Don't focus on overcoming delusions, requiring yourself to be supremely wise. Don't regard your ego as poisonous; it facilitates your connections with other people, it's a way of experiencing love. These are just people's ideas. The only real poison is fear, and the truth is love. Recognize that consciousness is in love with what it perceives, enjoy it, and forget all the other assumptions and beliefs about it. Don't fixate on consciousness alone. Love and faith are available to us all, always.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2021 12:17AM by aladdin_filep.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: June 14, 2021 07:50AM

Hello aladdin_felip,

I read your posts with interest, thanks for contributing to the conversation. One thing I would like to point out (which I'm fairy sure you are aware of anyway) is that Mooji does not teach traditional Advaita Vedanta - he teaches some mish-mash of ideas that he had made up himself.

If you would like to understand what traditional Advaita Vedanta is, then please take a look at the Vedanta Society of New York. See:


[www.vedantany.org]

I am not recommending that anyone join this particular religion, or any other religion. I am just showing this as an example of what Vedanta actually looks like, so as you can make a comparison yourself. You will note that Vedanta is a extremely complex philosophy/religion that has nothing to do with the trance induction that Moji advocates.

I agree with you that spirituality should be based in compassionate love and I would like to stress that this love should never be divorced from an ethical framework. Whenever you see spirituality being promoted without the need for ethics, then run like the wind!

Another resource that I've just found that could be helpful for some people reading this forum is:


[www.ijcam.org]

See issue 1, "Being Mindful about Mindfulness: Exploring the Dark Side" by Sue Parker Hall.

Quote: "Some high demand groups (i.e. cults) ...use mindfulness and dissociative, trance-like states to recruit." Page 21.

Quote: "... stripping mindfulness from its Buddhist ethical foundations may allow it to be used to reinforce greed, aversion and delusion..." Page 20.

Thanks.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: June 15, 2021 07:36AM

Great advice here from a Buddhist Monk -
If you want to be happy then you should:

1. Keep your Morality
2. Give to others
3. Meditate

Notice how morality comes first? Meditation only comes in at 3rd place. There is a reason for this.
[www.youtube.com] at 17.50 mins.


Also, meditation is this day and age might be doing something as simple as slowly and quietly baking some bread, as long as you do it with love. This last piece of advice is my own advice, so take it or leave it. I don't mind :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2021 07:38AM by Sahara71.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: susanhughes777 ()
Date: July 02, 2021 05:58PM

These pics straight from Youtube channel videos. Not private.


[ibb.co]

[ibb.co]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: sarv ()
Date: July 22, 2021 01:43AM

Has anyone studied Tony’s routines? He uses some common Ericksonian hypnotherapy techniques for which there are tutorials on youtube, thankfully for research purposes Tony isn't very creative & wholly lacks originality.

He likes the confusion technique. Tony’s tongue twisters are usually punctuated by the suggestion “you must drop it all”, or something along those lines.
It’s quite obvious, by half way through his sessions the majority of participants are either fast asleep because of his repetitive rambling or in a deep trance state. His “instant enlightenment” routine is a visualisation exercise, similar to what you might expect when visiting a hypnotherapist.
There’s no part of me which wishes to participate in his “guided meditation”…

When you understand the techniques he uses you understand the presented suggestions & therefore his underlying intent. There’s no speculation involved (for me at least) here, I’ve seen enough to understand his routine well enough, also how he built the little insulated kingdom he did. This will be gone soon enough, nothing lasts.
Usually after spinning someone up into a disassociated state of confusion & malleability his parting gift is “be just like that”. This is unethical at every level, there’s never any off switch provided.
Putting aside my distain he is effective, I can understand how much psychological work it might require to return back to reality after this escapist daydream.

My advice for those looking to move on is to understand (hypnotic) anchors, they’re powerful things.
Those thumbnails of his face which pop up on the side of youtube are anchors, as are the similar images of his (quietly grinning) face adorning everything. It’s these anchors which induce the anxiety, confusion & trauma involved in this experience.
The stage setup, beads, his image, camera FOV, font, music & video style. It all brings one back to the same place as before.

You will only be past this when he hasn’t been in your mind for some time, watching his videos to find critique or spending too much time online in this arena is possibly just as damaging as watching him for entertainment. It can get just as addictive & keeps you in that same place.
Saying this, unequivocally expressing yourself & having your voice heard is important, I have a great deal of respect for those who have had the courage. This makes you a stronger individual than this man, he’s psychologically weak, lower tier, this is why he does the things he does. You’re better than him.

Bless you all

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