Hi Heythere101,

you wrote:

"Thats all they have to do, suggest things and confuse you more and more, until you dont know what to believe anymore, and dont trust your own decisions any more.
I saw countless, young, vulnerable women who would groveling to mooji in confusion, in a heart wrenching battle most likely with their own intuition about the whole experience, and end up AGREEING yet again, that 'master always knows what is best for us'
this isnt an exaggeration, these types of 'sayings' are communicated ALL the time there, all day, every day. They think he is actually their personal living god!! They walk around calling him god, Lord, Master, savior ALL DAY every day"

This is extremely concerning. Do you think people there really do believe Moo is God? Do you think these young women might be exploited in other ways, other than just as free labor and being taken advantage of in an psychologically abusive way? You don't have to answer that, if you don't want to!

Heythere101, did you need to get professional help to deal with all this? Again, you don't need to answer if you feel that question is too personal. I'm glad you are Okay now.

Hi Heythere101

I noticed in your posts you seemed very concerned about your friend:

“He has been sectioned for 5 years by his parents, apparently you can still do that in the UK which seems crazy to me. he's 26 yrs old!! How can his parents keep him sectioned?? It makes absolutely no sense to me.”[/i]


Just to clarify, for your peace-of-mind. Here in the UK people can be detained in hospital under one of the ‘sections’ of the Mental Health Act of 1983 if they have a mental disorder, are a danger to themselves, and/or a danger to others. The decision to assess and then ‘section’ someone is taken by a team of three professionals, usually comprising a Psychiatrist, a GP (doctor) and an AMHP (approved mental health professional...it is NOT...done by someone’s parents, even if your friend says so. Furthermore, his parents cannot keep him detained in hospital, it is not their decision, that too is a decision for skilled mental health practitioners.

I have been present on two occasions where someone has been ’sectioned’ and can assure you it is not an easy process to achieve, there has to be very good reason to do so. So don’t worry, your friend has not been dragged-off to some Dickensian institution by uncaring parents. He must in fact be quite unwell. Hope this helps.

I have been present on two occasions where someone has been ’sectioned’ and can assure you it is not an easy process to achieve, there has to be very good reason to do so. So don’t worry, your friend has not been dragged-off to some Dickensian institution by uncaring parents. He must in fact be quite unwell. Hope this helps.

Thankyou, that sounds more accurate. I was thinking exactly that, about the dickensian institutionalization.
I think he must have been acting out more than he realizes, I had my suspicions about how that was all happening. I really don't know because I wasn't there.
I do feel sorry for him, he has been diagnosed as schizophrenic, to him, it is a misdiagnosis and entirely false and inaccurate.
But I did feel something off was happening with him after a while of being at sahaja. He did start acting increasingly aggressive and violent after satsangs, after a while. and it was another reason i felt terrible about leaving, I feel like I left him in a very vulnerable position, but also couldnt help him anymore. I felt incredible guilt about that for years after i left
But at the time, I couldnt even comprehend all of the help I needed myself at the time


Do you think people there really do believe Moo is God?

I did. I truly believed that mooji was god incarnated on this earth as my guru.
I feel that anyone who would go there and ask the residents would be affirmed that a lot of him think he is literally a living manifestation of god. At least that's what your expected to believe there.
This is what a 'guru' is, to whomever that word means something to, the 'guru' is literally a living manifestation of god.
mooji reminds the participants and devotees of this quite often.

Some strictly think he is the REINCARNATION of Jesus/Ramana/Papaji/Buddha, and I am not exaggerating on that point at all.


Do you think these young women might be exploited in other ways, other than just as free labor and being taken advantage of in an psychologically abusive way? You don't have to answer that, if you don't want to!

Yes, I would like to speak on this as well. This was my FIRST hunch out of anything else I was feeling. Just like the lady who made that youtube video would say, something didn't feel right, and always felt 'off' there.
I got this strong sense, that at some point in the near or far off future, there would be MANY scandals and stories and controversies coming from this place, and from mooji. It was my gut instict.
I had a 'vision' of myself, in the position of Krishnabai, Lakshmi, and others, as one of his 'handmaidens'. I realized how close to that I was becoming.
I had been in very intimate quarters with mooji. Unfilmed unsensored meetings and events where I talked to him face to face, usually with the sangha around like a small satsang (examples of these types of meeting are sometimes filmed and posted in sahaja express, they are small intimate satsangs that happen at any time within sahaja with the devotees)
If i continued to 'put the work in' and strived for that position, of being one of mooji's 'girls', I feel I would've been there, maybe even to this day.
This 'vision' or whatever it was, was what made me make the decision to leave. I knew I was getting too close, and if I was put in a position like that, I'd never leave.

So, somewhere in me, I know that this is most likely involved in whats happening there, or in moojis world in some way, but I never had direct exposure, heard rumors there, or had anyone say anything to me about that. Thats the feeling I personally had from being there, and seeing the type of manipulative behavior that was happening all around me.

I will say, it would be VERY simple for something like that to be happening there and being covered up, or gotten away with by mooji, or any of the 'senior devotees' there.

Heythere101, did you need to get professional help to deal with all this?

Yes, finally I have, and I wish so much that is the FIRST thing I wouldve done
If I have any recommendation, it is to line up a councelor, therapist, psychiatrist, anyone professional to get help once you leave mooji/sahaja!!

Number 1 advice over all.

I coped very badly with all of the things I had seen and experienced.

I've been seeing a therapist only since last year in september, and it has helped immensely. I don't have any diagnosis for mental illness, but I have had some very serious issues to work on since this time of staying at sahaja.

If I had sought professional help early on, I feel I wouldve avoided a lot of self destructive decisions I made after leaving sahaja, and wouldve come through a lot of the pain, guilt and torment I felt, a lot faster.
I would've learned to view the experience objectively, instead of blaming myself for what happened, early on, and probably would not have made some very self-destructive decisions I regretfully, did end up making.

But yes, I am doing much better now, and can see things more objectively, and forgive myself for my past decisions. Now I am not living life in fear anymore.

Thankyou for the support!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2020 09:53PM by Heythere1010101.

To be more blunt about the exploitation issue, the answer is yes,
I personally think it is quite possible there is sexual exploitation of devotees happening there.

Heythere,
thank you so much for your post. I can relate so much with you. Exactly that was what I was thinking. The world suddenly became for me so cruel. I start to meet so unkind people. You have no idea how awful they could be. I felt, like I was being punished by Moo. I knew Moo hated me, because he verbally very often expressed contempt for me. He openly was saying that he hate my parson, and my person must die. I was so angry and I felt as if I was possesed by hatred, I couldn't feel anything else only anger. Later this anger stoped and I cried, and later this was pain and sorrow. Spiritual teachers told me, I have to accept life as it is, surrender and not protect myself. And I ended up, being totally wrecked by people. I was so depressed, I was thinking about suicide. Hanging myself, was going most of the time in my thinking, I was even checking how long the rope must be, and so on...
I tell you something. Humans are insane. But I noticed since I'm more on my own, I do not listen spiritual teachers anymore. I am not so much interested with people minds who work with me. Their need for control, gossip, being interested with making problems from no problems, their desires, is their problem. I remember that in the past I tried so hard explain them, why this is not a problem. Now, I just let go, and I'm watching their struggles, about nothing.

Heythere1010101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be more blunt about the exploitation issue, the
> answer is yes,
> I personally think it is quite possible there is
> sexual exploitation of devotees happening there.


__________________
I also think this to be true. I watched documentaries : "David wants to fly "- people start to talk after their guru - Maharishi death. One man said, he gave him all his fortune, and when guru find out he has no more money, he just get ride of him, as useless thing, This man said this broke his heart at that time, but he said - Maarishi was like that, very loving if he had something from you, and very ruthless if he didn't get what he wanted. And also said, he very often brought young very attractive women, to his room. And he has no doubt, Maharishi had sex with them :(

Osho the same, was sleeping with his devotees.

Moo is telling he doesn't need sex. But on the other hand he lied so many times. Really. I catch him on so many lies. And even if he is having no sex with them...he show so much affection to those young women. You can watch any profile on facebook, of his devotees. You really think, if they love so much, they do not sleep naked, cuddle, or do some stuff? I never saw, my entire life, even the most in love couples I know, who would show to each other as much affection and dedication as you can see on the pictures with Moo and his pretty, very young devotees. They travel everywhere, they live there for so many years. Do you really believe, touches and kisses are not continued within their private rooms?
My mother and all my neighbors from the first look, think this is sort of sex group of people. At the beggining I was naive and I wasn't thinking this way of them. I was thinking...people see sex everywhere. Even if I talk with some colleague, thay think we are having sex affair. You know...collective people if see women, and a men, they cannot believe there may be a friendship.
But I was watching Moo and his favorite girls, and I change my mind. Friends do not behave this way. Lovers do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2020 10:44PM by Gaja.

I know this is gossip what I said. This is not my business who is sleeping with who. But I cannot accept the fact, that most of gurus, use very young girls for their selfish desires. I know many and many women in spiritual world, who are interested with the same matters. Who are in their age, attractive, very wise, and would be good company for them.
I just think this is very bad thing when old man is having affairs with very young girls. Young people are for young people. Older people are for older people.

I just think there is ego going on.

I remember teaching of Moo, when said, when one is enlightened and is not a beggar, will get really good company and someone will show up in their lives, in his life, very sweet, and they will create very good relationship. So I guess this is answer for our question, if Moo is in intimate, sweet relationship with his devotee. He believes he is enlightened, he is not a beggar, so he got his award, very young girlfriend. If he was ordinary guy, he wouldn't get her.

I witnessed firsthand on 'exclusive' sahaja video footage, in portugal, Mooji and krishnabai, fingers interlocked with his arm around her waist in an embrace, at the opening of the "Christ chapel" on monte sahaja.
They are lovers, but the issue is not that mooji cant sleep with someone, it is that it is being done through manipulation and coercion, of an emotional and spiritual nature.
This is very common, even if krishnabai is in a consensual relationship with mooji, she doesnt understand that she is being coerced into it, and whole-heartedly believes her dreams have come true, because her true guru, and living god has chosen her as a partner (for now).

He is not going to brake up with her. He is really lucky,she wanted him(I think there is many young men who would like to be her boyfriends, as I remember she is really attractive), plus he is really old. Very much possible, he is going to stay with her until his death.
More possible, she will change her mind and live him.

And how is it possible, he embraced her? He has short arms, and rich belly :-) I cannot picture this. But please do not show me, as I said, I do not want see him, and his private life.


The only thing, why he is not going to admit openly, to people, he is in important relationship with her. Maybe he has no balls to be honest with people about it. But he has courage to mess with people, and avoid responsibilty for what he done. I feel sorry for this girl, she has boyfriend without dignity, and with no balls.

You know what. I had this dramatic moment in my life, when I was afraid that Moo is so much about people being empty,he say a lot : be empty, be empty, so I thought, he emptied her- Krishnabai, to take her to bed. I remember that time. I was so afraid, to lose my ego at that time, I started drinking a lot of alcohol and smoke cigarettes, because I thought I will have to sleep with some old guru if I give up my preferences.
And who knows, maybe this girl hadn't have attraction for older man, but when Moo saw her, thought, uuu nice chick, I want her to be mine, and he emptied her from superficial ego, and it is done, she end up in his bed, in his arms. Moo is happy.She doesn't know who she is anymore, she doesn;t mind what she likes, what she doesn't, she doesn't know what she is doing anymore, as she is nothing, she lost her mind, and ability to see the situation, she found herself to be in.