Further to my last post, I would like to provide some specific examples of how cult indoctrination operates within the Mooji group. Please bare in mind that these techniques are subtle.... it is entirely possible to watch Moo in action and take everything he says at face value and not feel that you are being slowly indoctrinated. If it were obvious, then I suggest that it wouldn't be as effective!

Refer to the recent Moo video:

[mooji.tv]

1.38 Straight up, Mooji deliberately confuses the word ‘eye’ with the pronoun ‘I’. He says that you are in the ‘eye of the storm' and you are the 'I' in the storm. This is a common trance inducing tactic – and here the trance sequence goes on for a while.
Mooji takes what was already a metaphor - 'the eye of the storm' - meaning presumably that the person is in a calm place while the world is in upheaval around them, due to Covid 19. He doesn't bother with the meaning that the student implied, but turns the phrase into an opportunity to confuse the viewers with 'I' and 'eye'.

4.00 Moo makes it very personal- he makes a lot of eye contact with the camera. He's talking to the person who wrote the letter, but we feel he is talking to us, personally. All the eye contact gives us a false sense of emotional intimacy. He is pointing at the camera, to make his point. If we are alone and lacking company in this crisis, we could easily become vulnerable to listening to this. He is still playing on the word 'I' and it's becoming confusing.
This corresponds to point 2, in my last post, where I wrote: There are things that are vague and could have double meanings.
Now he starts talking up the viewer, almost praising us for being clam and transcendent - this is going to give us a dopamine hit! The reward centers in our brains are going to light up.

He says: “Fear will engulf our self-image.” He is identifying with the letter-writer but he is turning it around a bit. The student who wrote the letter does not want to be fearful, but Moo is saying that fear is good, because it will destroy the false self. Hold on, fear is meant to be unpleasant, isn't it? But Moo is telling us that our fear is a good thing?

8.38 He plays on the phrase "mind-field" and then confuses it with "minefield". They are two very different things, but they sound similar, don't they? The implication is that you mind is a minefield and therefore very dangerous. This is trance; it's confusing but you don't know why. It's only when you write it down that it becomes more obvious. Moo wants us to believe that our own minds are dangerous - 'don't trust your own mind.'

17.44 Just jumping ahead a little... Moo is pointing at the camera and saying "you will find great strength!" Another dopamine hit for the viewer! He sounds so sure of himself. What? Is he psychic? Maybe we won't find any strength at all - how the heck would he know? He goes on to say that 'feeling alone in the world' is not a bad thing - well, it's not bad for Moo, is it? Because it means we will probably be watching more of his videos.....
(Actually, there are concrete things you can do when you feel alone - like phone up a friend or a relative that you haven't spoken to for a while.)

20.35 Here is one of the most disturbing things in the video. Moo says that at Monte Sahaja they have a policy: "Live as though you have no rights or entitlements."
He says that if you give up the expectation of having rights, then you will be more grateful for what you do have. OK, well, the way he says it, it sounds kind of convincing, and by now everyone is confused and tranced-out, anyway, so they just might buy it. But if you give up you rights and entitlements, wont that make you open to being exploited by...I don't know... a cult, maybe????
I mean, do you also get to give up all your responsibilities at the same time? Do you not have to lift a finger there at Monte Sahaja? Just laze around eating tofu and drinking organic chai and being fanned by someone wielding a peacock feather fan? Is that how it works?


But, anyway, make up your own mind, peoples. This is just my take on things and is food for thought.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2020 10:04AM by Sahara71.

Hello All.

I am new to both this forum and the unsettling business of cults. The CEI site was recommended to me by the Cult Information Centre here in the UK. I’ve familiarised myself with your posts on the Tony Moo situation and feel this may be the correct place to share information, if perhaps only to endorse some of the queries and reports.

Recently I met and became friends with a woman who is a follower of this self-styled guru ‘Mooji’. Being neither religious or ‘spiritual’ I was unaware of him and his worldwide following. I’m now up to speed and seriously alarmed !

The nub of the matter is that I can confirm much of what I’ve read on this site and elsewhere regarding Tony Moo’s disturbing influence over his followers. I don’t know what my friend’s psychological and emotional condition was prior to meeting Moo three years ago - I can only report my observations of her now.

Suffice to say that from what I’ve read in your posts and from familiarising myself with cult indoctrination she accords with the usual characteristics leading to delusional devotion.

- abandoned her partner and career to follow Moo. Detached from her family.
- complete devotion to the ‘truth’ of Moo’s ‘message’. (He is seemingly infallible)
- loss of ‘self’ and detachment from reality through his teaching (verbiage IMO!)
- utterly delusional beliefs in the power of the Mooji movement (eg. they recently altered the vibrational frequency of the Schumann resonances in the Earth’s magnetic field by mass chanting !.....really ? WTF ?)
- seeks Mooji’s guidance on conducting her life (eg permission to start a relationship with me !)
- keeps a shrine to him, carries his image, listens to, watches and reads his teachings toan obsessive degree, but denies worshipping him !
- appears to have no friends or work colleagues outside the Monte Sahaja/local sangha group
- works occasionally purely to fund her MS retreats, and travel to serve him at ‘Tiru’ and Rishikesh
- has bombarded me with literature, Mooji devotional music, invitations to sangha and satsangs etc, in order to “show me what I really am” !


I can verify some of the things that are alleged to occur at sangha too, I have attended three local group gatherings where I observed:

- Yes, they do say prayers to “Mooji Baba, master, saviour” etc, etc before his image
- there is a simpering, moon-eyed, almost infantile demeanour on devotees faces
- there is sometimes weeping over his teachings
- It’s worth mentioning too, I think I may have been ‘love-bombed’ initially then sidelined later, but I can’t be entirely sure as that is purely my subjective gut-feeling.

On a somewhat lighter note, on one occasion there was a frankly laughable near mass-micturation amongst the group when one blissed-out devotee revealed a snotty little cloth with Mooji’s hand-print on it ! Christ almighty ! (Yup - pun intended).

Sahara71 asked earlier about conditions at MS ? I can confirm that when she paid for 9 months retreat there in 2018 (?) the accommodation was sub-standard ie tents in winter, rudimentary toilets and hygiene facilities, she said it was tough. There was restricted access to phone/online use, but I didn’t get specifics. ‘Seva’ was long and hard, but she wasn’t specific about this either. She also closed down discussion on the Flo Camion suicide there, and dismissed Tanya White as “that unstable very needy woman”. (She’s so innocent to the point I don’t believe she actually knows anything about either - just spouts the official MS group-speak. Mooji is the consummate flawless being after-all - isn’t he ?)

I’ve now discovered that far from being one of the general mass of gullible devotees she is in fact part of the closer group around him (I spotted her on stage near him in the YT video of the 2020 satsang finale at ‘Tiru’ - and she attended his private birthday party there). She’s not within the inner-most ring, but has betrayed a desire to be there. Personally I think she’s too much of an ingenue to be allowed in for anything other than exploitation, she fits the template - attractive, childishly credulous, emotionally vulnerable (possibly also psychologically unstable).

At present I’ve lost the trust she had in me, as unfortunately I didn’t find the CEI advice notes on handling cult members until after I’d blundered through a .....“WTF are you doing with this detestable narcissistic charlatan and coterie of drippy beige clones!” ......speech.

I realise it’s probably too late to help her, but if anyone here has useful suggestions they would be welcome.

Hi RevoG,

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It sounds like you are in a very difficult situation. I can't advise you what to do as a professional, but only as someone who almost fell in deep with a cult.

Maybe try to find out what your friend was interested in before she joined the Moo group and then re-introduce her to that interest? I don't think cults are ever entirely successful in destroying someone's original identity. If she finds some enjoyment in things she used to love, then it might break the spell.

You might have to apologize for denigrating Moo first, which might be difficult for you! It's really hard to know what to do in a situation like this. These people are seriously weird, as I found out the hard way.

Can you talk to your friend's parents or siblings? They may be in a position to give you more information that may help you to help her?

Dear RevoG, When we are being reeled into a cult leaders net, when we are being added to the leader's collection of human assets, we do not feel exploited.

We feel we are being seen, affirmed, truly loved.

We do not feel victimized at all.

We feel utterly affirmed as adults yet have unknowingly been manipulated and regressed to brain functions characteristic of early childhood and alienated from high level adult cognition. We react with a child's fury when warned that we are not being loved but are being callously exploited.

That's what makes it so difficult for our real friends to get through to us with fact based warnings.

Sahara has great advice - especially suggesting you learn what your friend enjoyed before her encounter with Moo material.

Years ago, a woman who was in an American cult, Church Universal and Triumphant, told us how she woke up.

She'd incurred a worksite injury building bunkers for the cult leader. After all her loyal support, the group told her to take her broken leg home to her family.

Her family said nothing about their worries. Instead, they played a lot of games of Scrabble, our friend got caught up with some much needed rest.

In the midst of playing the Scrabble games with her family and friends, she slowly realized that for the first time in months, years, she was relaxed and having FUN. She realized she'd never had fun while in the group. It was all about being on a mission, being special, being on a crusade.

Cult leaders and dictators hate it when we play and goof off, because we are not paying attention to them and their needs.

You and your friends family should know that you did not fail your friend in any way.

A good hearted individual who is in crisis or questing for a spiritual path is no match for a clever manipulator with years of experience and who is supported by a media team and has allies who honed their experience by working with an earlier super-guru, Osho/Rajnessh.

Cult leaders do two things: stroke our nerve endings and make us feel hopeful and joyful

Arrange meetings online or in person with people who also feel joy and hope in relation to the leader and have prioritized commitment to the leader and to each other.

This is a potent combination that exploits the finest features of being human.

Go get a copy of Cults Inside Out.

[www.google.com]

Rick Ross sums up years of exit counseling in that book. He knew that many families can't afford to hire an exit counselor. He wrote Cults Inside Out so that all the things he has learned will be available to anyone who is concerned for a friend or family member.

Let your friend know if she gets sick or runs into passport trouble when traveling, she she has a place to go, people she can call.

You all (you, her family) should make it clear that you're there for her, no matter what.

It makes a big difference reminding people that they do have a safety net and relationships that are independent of Moo and Monte Sahaja.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2020 06:29AM by corboy.

Also, RevoG,

when you mention members of the local Moo group, you write: "there is a simpering, moon-eyed, almost infantile demeanour on devotees faces"

And you say your friend is "childishly credulous, emotionally vulnerable"

The simple, childish demeanor is a classic sign of someone who has been subject to cult indoctrination. These people tend no longer to see complex layers of meaning in anything and tend to have very 'black and white' thinking. The indoctrination process breaks down their ability to use critical thinking and evaluate information. These people just blandly accept whatever they are told by the cult, as to question anything would cause them too much confusion and they would not be able to function.

I wonder does you friend needs to use critical thinking at her place of employment and how is that all going for her?

Thanks Sahara

It’s tricky isn’t it. So far my impression is that all interests she has are focussed in some way or other on Mooji. Actually she did recently state “this is the ONLY thing I’m interested in”. Kind of hard to see how to deflect someone’s attention away from that degree of obsession.

I think she’s beyond the level 6 point of indoctrination on the scale you provided earlier, perhaps 7-8. In which case I’m stumped, I have no experience or skills in dealing with this.

As you suggest, I have considered contacting her parents, although I don’t know them, and I don’t know what they understand about her current situation. They lost their son recently to suicide, and if they are possibly now watching their remaining daughter disappear into Moo’s grasp, their anguish must be awful.

Yes, RevoG,

it would be difficult for any parent to see their child go off with some strange group they don't understand.

If you can do anything at all to interest your friend in some new hobby or activity that she might like, then try that. On the surface at least, Moo does not give any directives about what people should or should not do in their free time. He has spoken about 'going out and enjoying life to the fullest' and things like that. Remind your friend that the purpose of spirituality is to enrich our lives, not limit them.

Let us know how you go.

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 20.35 Here is one of the most
> disturbing things in the video. Moo says
> that at Monte Sahaja they have a policy:
> "Live as though you have no
> rights or entitlements."
> He says that if you give up the expectation of
> having rights, then you will be more grateful for
> what you do have. OK, well, the way he says
> it, it sounds kind of convincing, and by now
> everyone is confused and tranced-out, anyway, so
> they just might buy it. But if you give up you
> rights and entitlements, wont that make you open
> to being exploited by...I don't know... a
> cult, maybe????
> I mean, do you also get to give up all your
> responsibilities at the same time? Do you not
> have to lift a finger there at Monte Sahaja? Just
> laze around eating tofu and drinking organic chai
> and being fanned by someone wielding a peacock
> feather fan? Is that how it works?

Namaste Sahara 71, that was a good catch.

In the early days of following his teachings, I always had this confusion whether to give up my responsibilities full time, meaning walk away from life, and focus on liberation, focus on him 100%. I am sorry to say this, but his message seems to be promoting this idea. "Live as though you have no rights or entitlements." seems to be the ultimate suggestion to subject oneself to be his slave, like what we have seen in videos and pictures of people kissing his feet.

Grace clarified this question by allowing me to read about Ramana Marharshi, who said that you still have to look after your family and activities of daily living, but find time to do the self enquiry at certain times of the day when your don't need your intellectual functions. So my dear brother and sisters in Monte Sahaja and believers elsewhere who thinks he is the living 'Christ', please be aware of the subtle, yet fatal twist of what was originally taught by Ramana.

I have not watched his satsang for a while, but when I did watch this one as pointed out by Sahara71, I did get the impression of a parrot or robot reading off a book. In fact, people are better off reading a book, or listening to an audio book. This guys knows that people like to listen to stories. He plays on this trait by telling seemingly interesting stories in an attempt to relate to people who are watching and listening.

Considering his actions which have been reported by witnesses in this forum, he has neither the moral nor spiritual authority to be there claiming that he can lead the masses to enlightenment. Spend more time with your family and loved ones. Take time to love, to discern, to live and treasure every moment of your life. Let Grace lead you on. He is not Grace, He is "fallen from Grace".

Thanks Stefa,

for your insights. I just wanted to explain that in a democracy, people do have rights and entitlements, and these are usually in proportion to the amount of responsibilities they have.

If you attend an ashram or spiritual group, you might be asked to work ten hours a day, six days a week. (It's not my idea of a good time, but to each their own!) This is a big responsibility. Many take it very seriously indeed. In return for your service, you should have the right to speak up and be heard, if there is something that doesn't sit well with you. You have the right to adequate hygiene, adequate rest and the right to access medical care when needed.

You are entitled to leave the ashram, if it isn't working out for you. You are entitled to ask questions have your questions answered, and you have the right to know how the ashram is run, who makes the decisions, why certain rules are in place, etc, etc. Do I need to point out that these are human rights?

If a Moo is teaching students to live "as though they have no rights" in the guise of teaching them some obscure "spiritual" lesson, then this is very misguided and negligent.

Thanks for your reply Corboy.

I shall obtain a copy of the book you recommend. As I previously stated, I was until recently, completely in the dark about internal operations of cults. As a consequence I’ve not handled interactions with my friend very well. Getting better informed might help.

However, from what you wrote it sounds like there is rarely much chance of outsiders penetrating the belief-system in any case. Seeing through the charade is something a person must do for herself/himself indeed.

As for the recommendations both you and Sahara71 offered, although I understand the possible benefits, I very much doubt there’s much chance of engineering such potentially useful scenarios at present. Firstly, She seems to have withdrawn so far from her parents that she doesn’t wish to spend much time at home. Secondly, as far as I can establish, all her social contacts revolve around the members of the local sangha, and her work colleagues are also Mooji devotees (as far as I can establish). Thirdly, she has boldly stated “this is ALL I care about” (ie Mooji guiding her to ‘enlightenment’).

So - it rather looks like a hopeless case for the present. All I can do is stand by and watch. Uncomfortable.