Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Traveler99
()
Date: March 09, 2020 05:54AM
Just to be clear, it is not to protect Bob and Kathy from Mooji or his people that I did not name them.
It was to protect them from getting enmeshed in on-line debates in which they have no interest in participating.
They shared their experiences and feelings with no expectation or desire to do so any more or to be pulled into one side or another of a “controversy” they see as somewhat unfounded and unnecessary. They got what they could from Mooji and peacefully moved on. They had none of the “Big Brother”-like stuff happen to them that some have described.
I other words, I protect Bob and Kathy from persons who seem to desperately need confirmation that Mooji and his minions are as bad as the persons believe them to be. They aren’t the people who can or would go there, because that simply was not their experience.
If Bob and Kathy had felt mistreated or abused by Mooji or his people, it wouldn’t take questions from me or Sahara71 to get them to speak out.
Plus, they’ve been told about this site. Most likely they’re reading these posts. Certainly, if they wished to respond in some way, they could and would. And if after having heard about this site they aren’t bothering to read these posts, then that also says all that needs to be said (by them), doesn’t it?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 09, 2020 06:49AM
That's good to know, Trav.
I'm glad they (and you) could confirm the forced hair-cutting, the failed exorcisms, women reduced to tears by Moo's comments, the heron being shot dead and the series of relationships Moo has had with his female devotees, none of which has apparently been kept secret form anyone at any time.
Lets hope we hear more form Moo's team about these incidents and the outcomes in the near future.
I would also like to hear more about the money smuggled over the boarder to Portugal to set up the 'ashram', the supposed 'isolation quarters' for those who need some enforced 'time out' and the arranged marriages set up by Moo to secure members EU citizenship.
There is also the interesting account of Moo telling young women that sleeping with him will somehow bring them closer to God.
And the account of the rather public fist-fight between two female devotees. And of course the fire that forced evacuation of the ashram, and the lack of fire and safety regulations....
The lack of a "complaints department" (it being a registered charity) and the false spiritual linage claims, of course. Oh, and rich benefactors getting special treatment from Moo.
Then there is just the issue of the two sham Hindu marriages of Moo that were never formally annulled.
And the accounts of Moo's contact with extra-terrestrial beings. And the links to Osho's group.
You know, just as a very disinterested outsider, with nothing to gain, this does sound quite a lot like a cult! But I guess that fact was never really kept under wraps by anyone at any time.
I'm glad they (and you) could confirm the forced hair-cutting, the failed exorcisms, women reduced to tears by Moo's comments, the heron being shot dead and the series of relationships Moo has had with his female devotees, none of which has apparently been kept secret form anyone at any time.
Lets hope we hear more form Moo's team about these incidents and the outcomes in the near future.
I would also like to hear more about the money smuggled over the boarder to Portugal to set up the 'ashram', the supposed 'isolation quarters' for those who need some enforced 'time out' and the arranged marriages set up by Moo to secure members EU citizenship.
There is also the interesting account of Moo telling young women that sleeping with him will somehow bring them closer to God.
And the account of the rather public fist-fight between two female devotees. And of course the fire that forced evacuation of the ashram, and the lack of fire and safety regulations....
The lack of a "complaints department" (it being a registered charity) and the false spiritual linage claims, of course. Oh, and rich benefactors getting special treatment from Moo.
Then there is just the issue of the two sham Hindu marriages of Moo that were never formally annulled.
And the accounts of Moo's contact with extra-terrestrial beings. And the links to Osho's group.
You know, just as a very disinterested outsider, with nothing to gain, this does sound quite a lot like a cult! But I guess that fact was never really kept under wraps by anyone at any time.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 09, 2020 08:51AM
Oh, and the the recent death of the young Irishwoman 'Claire' who died from 'a cough' while at Moo's ashram.
Then there is the woman follower who died in India from 'a broken leg'.
And of course the issue of the legal action taken by Moo to prevent Henri Jolicoeur speaking out about things that were never any secret in the first place. That one will take a little explaining.
It is kind of expensive to try to silence people who expose non-existent secrets, isn't it? But the Moo group have plenty of money coming in, so it's no problem for them.
Then there is the issue of the non-disclosure agreements. Kind of perplexing, since this organisation is apparently totally transparent.
And the video denial by Moo himself, where he actively refutes any and all allegations.... perhaps it's best to just issue a blanket denial of everything you have ever done, just in case someone somewhere might be accusing you of something.
Hmmmm. Questions, questions questions!
Then there is the woman follower who died in India from 'a broken leg'.
And of course the issue of the legal action taken by Moo to prevent Henri Jolicoeur speaking out about things that were never any secret in the first place. That one will take a little explaining.
It is kind of expensive to try to silence people who expose non-existent secrets, isn't it? But the Moo group have plenty of money coming in, so it's no problem for them.
Then there is the issue of the non-disclosure agreements. Kind of perplexing, since this organisation is apparently totally transparent.
And the video denial by Moo himself, where he actively refutes any and all allegations.... perhaps it's best to just issue a blanket denial of everything you have ever done, just in case someone somewhere might be accusing you of something.
Hmmmm. Questions, questions questions!
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
stefa
()
Date: March 09, 2020 09:14AM
Namaste everyone,
I had a thought this morning and it is "how do we raise more awareness to help people open their eyes to his true nature?". How can we also encourage more to speak up?.
I feel very much for the people who are still following and at the same time very helpless. I have been very fortunate, but what about those I left behind?
I had a thought this morning and it is "how do we raise more awareness to help people open their eyes to his true nature?". How can we also encourage more to speak up?.
I feel very much for the people who are still following and at the same time very helpless. I have been very fortunate, but what about those I left behind?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 09, 2020 11:18AM
Hi Stefa,
I feel very much along the same lines as you - what can be done to help those who remain in the Moo Cult?
For one thing, I guess, you can read up on cult techniques and just be aware of types of manipulation that goes on within these groups. There is a lot to take in...
You can contact your local Sangha group with your concerns and ask that someone be willing to answer your questions. If you meet with resistance, it could be a further indication that the Moo group is not open to constructive criticism or open to making changes - and subsequently is not interested in the welfare of its members.
Someone who posted on this forum was able to get a full refund of the donations they made to the Moo group, however the organisation refused to refund the cost of the retreats that person attended. However, there would be an opportunity to challenge this decision under certain legislation - the Moo group may bend to pressure here - especially to avoid the negative publicity.
If you can, make contact with others whose lives have been negatively effected by this group. There are several support groups for Mooji's ex-followers on Facebook where you can do this. One such group is called 'Leaving Mooji'. Otherwise, it could be worth contacting the spiritual teacher called 'Kosi' who has recently spoken out against Moo, having personally come into contact with ex-members of Moo's who were traumatized. Her website: [www.kosi.org]
The spiritual commentator Rick Archer has also had contact with traumatized ex-students of Moo, and subsequently removed Moo's interviews from his website. Rick is a member of the organisation 'Association for Spiritual Integrity' which you can find out more about here: [www.spiritual-integrity.org]
A class-action lawsuit by people who have been damaged by this group is also not out of the question; human rights lawyers are sometimes willing to work for free, to bring attention to the abuse of human rights. You would have to contact a community legal rights center in your country. I would recommend you get others on board with this idea, as it is a big undertaking.
One thing that would bring good results quickly is to contact a journalist who is interested in spiritual issues and offer to tell your story for publication. A journalist is bound by an ethical code of conduct to keep your anonymity, if you choose. I did see the website medium.com touting for articles about Moo a while back, but I can't vouch for the reputation of Medium.com, as I know next to nothing about it. If you do contact a journalist, read some of their published material first, to ensure you like their approach.
I feel very much along the same lines as you - what can be done to help those who remain in the Moo Cult?
For one thing, I guess, you can read up on cult techniques and just be aware of types of manipulation that goes on within these groups. There is a lot to take in...
You can contact your local Sangha group with your concerns and ask that someone be willing to answer your questions. If you meet with resistance, it could be a further indication that the Moo group is not open to constructive criticism or open to making changes - and subsequently is not interested in the welfare of its members.
Someone who posted on this forum was able to get a full refund of the donations they made to the Moo group, however the organisation refused to refund the cost of the retreats that person attended. However, there would be an opportunity to challenge this decision under certain legislation - the Moo group may bend to pressure here - especially to avoid the negative publicity.
If you can, make contact with others whose lives have been negatively effected by this group. There are several support groups for Mooji's ex-followers on Facebook where you can do this. One such group is called 'Leaving Mooji'. Otherwise, it could be worth contacting the spiritual teacher called 'Kosi' who has recently spoken out against Moo, having personally come into contact with ex-members of Moo's who were traumatized. Her website: [www.kosi.org]
The spiritual commentator Rick Archer has also had contact with traumatized ex-students of Moo, and subsequently removed Moo's interviews from his website. Rick is a member of the organisation 'Association for Spiritual Integrity' which you can find out more about here: [www.spiritual-integrity.org]
A class-action lawsuit by people who have been damaged by this group is also not out of the question; human rights lawyers are sometimes willing to work for free, to bring attention to the abuse of human rights. You would have to contact a community legal rights center in your country. I would recommend you get others on board with this idea, as it is a big undertaking.
One thing that would bring good results quickly is to contact a journalist who is interested in spiritual issues and offer to tell your story for publication. A journalist is bound by an ethical code of conduct to keep your anonymity, if you choose. I did see the website medium.com touting for articles about Moo a while back, but I can't vouch for the reputation of Medium.com, as I know next to nothing about it. If you do contact a journalist, read some of their published material first, to ensure you like their approach.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Horowitz
()
Date: March 10, 2020 11:36PM
Mooji and his PR team has not been able to take down some critical discussions about Mooji: for instance:
Rick Archer from Buddha at the Gas Pump community keeps the discussion about Mooji very open and complains here about Mooji and his PR team: Rick Archer to Cathleen Kushnick wrote: …. “check out the Mooji thread, which the Mooji people have been trying to get me to censor and take down ever since it went up”…This thread is taken from article about Robert Adams at Buddha at the Gas Pump (fb)
[www.facebook.com]
Robert Adams was also recently exposed to be a false guru: The Mystery of Robert Adams: Did He Really Meet Ramana Maharshi and the Sages of India? [selfreflexiveloopphotography.photo.blog]
Mooji discussion at Buddha at the Gas Pump: community: [www.facebook.com]
and Amma Tanya: (Mooji exposed to be a false Guru at YT) are very active...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2020 11:46PM by Horowitz.
Rick Archer from Buddha at the Gas Pump community keeps the discussion about Mooji very open and complains here about Mooji and his PR team: Rick Archer to Cathleen Kushnick wrote: …. “check out the Mooji thread, which the Mooji people have been trying to get me to censor and take down ever since it went up”…This thread is taken from article about Robert Adams at Buddha at the Gas Pump (fb)
[www.facebook.com]
Robert Adams was also recently exposed to be a false guru: The Mystery of Robert Adams: Did He Really Meet Ramana Maharshi and the Sages of India? [selfreflexiveloopphotography.photo.blog]
Mooji discussion at Buddha at the Gas Pump: community: [www.facebook.com]
and Amma Tanya: (Mooji exposed to be a false Guru at YT) are very active...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2020 11:46PM by Horowitz.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 11, 2020 06:47AM
Yes, Horowitz,
Rick Archer's BATGAP group is one place where comments from ex-followers of Moo don't get censored. It's very interesting to me that the Moo group would like to have this conversation taken down....
I do wonder why?
Since they are a registered charity and totally transparent in all their operations... a little bit of conversation won't harm them, will it?
If people had pressing concerns, they could always bring them to the Moo organisation's 'complaints department' and have those complaints dealt with by the correct channels, right? Wrong! They don't have a complaints department, and those who do complain will find that their correspondence will be severed.
After all, the spiritual teacher Joan Tollifson has already publicly declared that Moo is in a intimate relationship with his chief assistant (who came to him as a devotee) and this information has been backed up by inner-circle members 'Bob and Kathy'. (who also report another sexual relationships with a previous devotee).
Amma Tanya White was very publicly denounced for exposing Moo's relationships with devotees, and is still being pilloried on-line. Perhaps the Moo foundation owe her an apology?
Henri Jolicoeur was slapped with legal threats for talking about such relationships - perhaps he is now owed an apology too?
Or, you know, perhaps people would just really like to know how an registered organization that rakes in millions or dollars in tax-free donations can afford to be so incredibly evasive about what really goes on under the guise of so-called 'spirituality'?
Rick Archer's BATGAP group is one place where comments from ex-followers of Moo don't get censored. It's very interesting to me that the Moo group would like to have this conversation taken down....
I do wonder why?
Since they are a registered charity and totally transparent in all their operations... a little bit of conversation won't harm them, will it?
If people had pressing concerns, they could always bring them to the Moo organisation's 'complaints department' and have those complaints dealt with by the correct channels, right? Wrong! They don't have a complaints department, and those who do complain will find that their correspondence will be severed.
After all, the spiritual teacher Joan Tollifson has already publicly declared that Moo is in a intimate relationship with his chief assistant (who came to him as a devotee) and this information has been backed up by inner-circle members 'Bob and Kathy'. (who also report another sexual relationships with a previous devotee).
Amma Tanya White was very publicly denounced for exposing Moo's relationships with devotees, and is still being pilloried on-line. Perhaps the Moo foundation owe her an apology?
Henri Jolicoeur was slapped with legal threats for talking about such relationships - perhaps he is now owed an apology too?
Or, you know, perhaps people would just really like to know how an registered organization that rakes in millions or dollars in tax-free donations can afford to be so incredibly evasive about what really goes on under the guise of so-called 'spirituality'?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 12, 2020 05:19AM
The 'Sounds True' website where Mooji's false lineage claims are still apparent:
[www.soundstrue.com]
They claim:
"Mooji is a direct disciple in the lineage of the great Advaita Vedanta master Sri H.W.L. Poonja and the great sage Sri Ramana Maharshi."
Wrong! Ramana did not leave a spiritual lineage, as is widely known and confirmed by the the scholar David Godman.
See this interview Of David Godman with Rick Archer:[www.youtube.com]
Quote:
"This is a fraud, to sit in front of an audience with a picture of Ramana behind you and say - 'I'm in the Ramana lineage' is a fraud in my opinion" - David Godman
"There is NO lineage" - David Godman
"Q: Did he (Ramana) declare Papaji enlightened? David Godman: No, no living person."
The Mooji Foundation managed to hire a slick Miami lawyer to 'clean up the internet' of all the allegations against Moo, and yet they did not bother clean up their own false claims, which are still there for everyone to see.
[www.soundstrue.com]
They claim:
"Mooji is a direct disciple in the lineage of the great Advaita Vedanta master Sri H.W.L. Poonja and the great sage Sri Ramana Maharshi."
Wrong! Ramana did not leave a spiritual lineage, as is widely known and confirmed by the the scholar David Godman.
See this interview Of David Godman with Rick Archer:[www.youtube.com]
Quote:
"This is a fraud, to sit in front of an audience with a picture of Ramana behind you and say - 'I'm in the Ramana lineage' is a fraud in my opinion" - David Godman
"There is NO lineage" - David Godman
"Q: Did he (Ramana) declare Papaji enlightened? David Godman: No, no living person."
The Mooji Foundation managed to hire a slick Miami lawyer to 'clean up the internet' of all the allegations against Moo, and yet they did not bother clean up their own false claims, which are still there for everyone to see.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
stefa
()
Date: March 12, 2020 08:00PM
Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can contact your local Sangha group with your
> concerns and ask that someone be willing to answer
> your questions. If you meet with resistance, it
> could be a further indication that the Moo group
> is not open to constructive criticism or open to
> making changes - and subsequently is not
> interested in the welfare of its members.
Namaste, Thank you. I tried this for the past days but did not get a response from the sangha leader. Guess I am being ignored.
> If you can, make contact with others whose lives
> have been negatively effected by this group. There
> are several support groups for Mooji's
> ex-followers on Facebook where you can do
> this. One such group is called 'Leaving Mooji'.
> Otherwise, it could be worth contacting the
> spiritual teacher called 'Kosi' who has recently
> spoken out against Moo, having personally come
> into contact with ex-members of Moo's who were
> traumatized. Her website: [www.kosi.org]
Yes, I am already following 'Leaving Mooji' and have posted there. Kosi is my next stop.
> The spiritual commentator Rick Archer has also had
> contact with traumatized ex-students of Moo, and
> subsequently removed Moo's interviews from his
> website. Rick is a member of the organisation
> 'Association for Spiritual Integrity' which
> you can find out more about here:
> [www.spiritual-integrity.org]
Yes, I joined the GATGAP forum before coming to this space. You may also want to check up 'mooji cult abuse recovery group' on FB.
> A class-action lawsuit by people who have been
> damaged by this group is also not out of the
> question; human rights lawyers are sometimes
> willing to work for free, to bring attention to
> the abuse of human rights. You would have to
> contact a community legal rights center in your
> country. I would recommend you get others on board
> with this idea, as it is a big undertaking.
Was wondering if several groups can be joined together to create a larger concerted effort. eg. CE + leavingmooji + batgap . Anyone initiated anything already?
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can contact your local Sangha group with your
> concerns and ask that someone be willing to answer
> your questions. If you meet with resistance, it
> could be a further indication that the Moo group
> is not open to constructive criticism or open to
> making changes - and subsequently is not
> interested in the welfare of its members.
Namaste, Thank you. I tried this for the past days but did not get a response from the sangha leader. Guess I am being ignored.
> If you can, make contact with others whose lives
> have been negatively effected by this group. There
> are several support groups for Mooji's
> ex-followers on Facebook where you can do
> this. One such group is called 'Leaving Mooji'.
> Otherwise, it could be worth contacting the
> spiritual teacher called 'Kosi' who has recently
> spoken out against Moo, having personally come
> into contact with ex-members of Moo's who were
> traumatized. Her website: [www.kosi.org]
Yes, I am already following 'Leaving Mooji' and have posted there. Kosi is my next stop.
> The spiritual commentator Rick Archer has also had
> contact with traumatized ex-students of Moo, and
> subsequently removed Moo's interviews from his
> website. Rick is a member of the organisation
> 'Association for Spiritual Integrity' which
> you can find out more about here:
> [www.spiritual-integrity.org]
Yes, I joined the GATGAP forum before coming to this space. You may also want to check up 'mooji cult abuse recovery group' on FB.
> A class-action lawsuit by people who have been
> damaged by this group is also not out of the
> question; human rights lawyers are sometimes
> willing to work for free, to bring attention to
> the abuse of human rights. You would have to
> contact a community legal rights center in your
> country. I would recommend you get others on board
> with this idea, as it is a big undertaking.
Was wondering if several groups can be joined together to create a larger concerted effort. eg. CE + leavingmooji + batgap . Anyone initiated anything already?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: March 13, 2020 06:44AM
Hi Stefa,
someone posting here over a year ago did try to set up a website to help people who were suffering distress as a result of being involved with the Moo group, however the Mooji Organization contacted the her (him?) and and managed to have the site taken down.
One of the most distressing things this person reported was someone with significant mental illness being harbored by the Moo group and working there at the ashram for no pay. This person was not being offered comfort and support, but left alone in her suffering to work as best she could. The general consensus was "leave her be. We can't help her" - which of course is gross negligence. Anyone with significant mental illness needs to be taken to a hospital.
Perhaps the time is now ripe for something new to be done?
someone posting here over a year ago did try to set up a website to help people who were suffering distress as a result of being involved with the Moo group, however the Mooji Organization contacted the her (him?) and and managed to have the site taken down.
One of the most distressing things this person reported was someone with significant mental illness being harbored by the Moo group and working there at the ashram for no pay. This person was not being offered comfort and support, but left alone in her suffering to work as best she could. The general consensus was "leave her be. We can't help her" - which of course is gross negligence. Anyone with significant mental illness needs to be taken to a hospital.
Perhaps the time is now ripe for something new to be done?
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