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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: February 12, 2020 06:03AM

One of the latest photo's from Mooji's trip to India, published on the official Mooji website:

[photos.mooji.org]

To me, this photo says it all.... a new, young devotee of Mooji kneels on the floor in front of him (I thought they were going to try to ban all the servile behavior in the cult?) while Krishnabai and Lakshmi look on. Both women have those tight-lipped smiles plastered on their faces, the kind of smiles you have when you feel obliged to smile, but really you's prefer not to smile. You can tell they're uncomfortable. (But make up your own mind.)

Krishnabai looks so thin now that she is almost unrecognizable from the young woman she used to be when she first entered the cult. People who used to know Mooji say that this weight loss is caused by Moo "sucking all the psychic energy" out of his victims, but I tend to disagree. I think the weight loss is more likely due to the anxiety of being around a pathological narcissist. (Anxiety causes appetite suppression.) Also, the anxiety of having to hide her relationship with the Moo.

Another photo of a servile woman groveling before the great Moo:

[photos.mooji.org]

What is she doing on the floor? Is that really necessary? Old habits die hard, I guess.

A photo of a good shirt ruined by the 'rock-star' Moo's autograph:

[photos.mooji.org]

That stain will be hard to get out.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Traveler99 ()
Date: February 12, 2020 11:24AM

Please Don't Shoot the Messenger:

Some words about Mooji,
including a bit about Be Scofield's critique,
in response to the question
"Why do thousands still go to Mooji?"


With all of the stuff about Mooji, a friend reports that he still has many people showing up to his satsangs.

I asked friends in India, and elsewhere, to examine "Why?"

One replied, "The whole suicide thing is overplayed. Face it, a large percentage of persons who go on the 'spiritual path' are wounded, and that a few of the many thousands who have gone to Mooji would end their own lives is tragic, but not, sadly, surprising. Is there any evidence he encouraged them to do so? Could have stopped it from happening? I haven't heard anything like that at all."

Another replied:

Quote
From a "beutral" Person's assessment of Mooji
I do remember about the accusation that Be wrote that Mooji was sleeping with all three women who were living in adjacent quarters to him. A friend who had been
at Monte Sahaja for long periods of time, and who left Mooji and the sangha feeling very hurt, said that Mooji definitely was not sleeping with all three of those women, as one of them, who she knew very well, was a hard-core lesbian, who had a regular woman lover, and my friend felt absolutely certain that this woman would not sleep with Mooji, even though she adored Mooji as her Guru. She was emphatic about it. Mooji was in a physical (and almost certainly sexual) relationship with Krishnabai, who is seen the most by his side. There were no rules about how to conduct oneself sexually at Monte Sahaja, (unlike most ashrams). Krishnabai is in her mid-30's, approximately 30 years younger than Mooji, who just turned 66 a few days ago. She met Mooji when she was in her mid-20's (it's apparently not true that she was in her late teens when she met Mooji). My friend said that at first, it was a big secret that Mooji and her were sleeping together. The story my friend told me was that somebody had walked into Mooji's bedroom, and found Mooji and Krishnabai in bed together, and they told people, and it created an uproar, as it was secret. Then, other people who were close to Mooji went around, interrogating those who had heard the story, and told others, trying to find out who originally told people that Mooji and Krishnabai were in the same bed. My friend was interrogated by 2 or 3 close disciples of Mooji, and she refused to say who told her, and who she told (as she told a few others, that's how it was found out). Some people got into trouble over this. And then, at some point, Mooji and Krishnabai admitted they were in a physical relationshp. This was one instance that led this friend to lose her trust in Mooji, and there were other instances. This friend left and later got connected with other ex-Moojites. She said there were a lot of trips going on, particularly in the latter period when she was there. I asked her if it was true if the three women all simultaneously dressed and undressed Mooji, and she said she didn't know, she never heard of that when she was there. It could be, she thought, if Mooji was so frail, that he needed it, but she was doubtful. She couldn't say that it was definitely not true. She said she wouldn't know if Mooji was sexually promiscuous or not, as there were so many secrets, but she doubted that women were sneaking in and out of his bedroom in the middle of the night. The problem is that when some things are kept secret, one doesn't really know what is going on, and trust is broken. And around Mooji, people were worshipping him - big time. He's not just a dude who has girlfriends, he is seen to be like God by his students, who are devotees. I had spoken to another friend who was there during an exorcism that Mooji performed, that didn't work, and the woman who was supposedly possessed, flipped out and was taken to an insane asylum in Portugal. This friend visited her there. For her, that was also the last straw. The story about Mooji killing the heron was true.

One thing that I recall mentioning was where Be had written that Mooji eats meat, yet is a Hindu, and Hindus are vegetarians, and don't eat meat. I don't recall exactly how Be phrased it. I said that it wasn't true that Hindus are vegetarians, and in fact most Hindus in India eat meat and/or fish. I think I gave links to websites that showed that. Also, Be had written something about Mooji had two Hindu wedding ceremonies officiated by Hindu priests, but never got a Hindu divorce after the marriages broke up, and I wrote that it is completely unnecessary, that Hindu weddings have no legal status, and one doesn't need to get a Hindu divorce - and anyways, traditionally (until rather recently), Hindus didn't even get divorces. And that I know many Westerners who, while in India, would pay some money to a Hindu priest to get a Hindu marriage to their boyfriend or girlfriend, and there would be a big ceremony, and some time later - even soon after - they'd break up. There would be no rule, law, or compunction to have the Hindu marriage annulled. Papaji, Mooji's guru, often encouraged his Western disciples who were boyfriend-girlfriend to get a Hindu wedding. Often they would break up later.

Some of the more outrageous things about Mooji and his ashram may have changed since Be's article. That could be something to investigate. For one thing, they stopped publicly advertising on their website malas and pendents "blessed by Mooji" (though they still sell malas that are "blessed" - those in the know would assume they were blessed by Mooji.) They took down audios and videos of the Guru Aarti being sung, which are verses praising Mooji as the highest of the high, as the Supreme Himself. Also now removed from the internet are the lyrics to the Guru Aarti. I hear from someone who was at Monte Sahaja a few months ago, that the Guru Aarti is still being sung, It's now very, very hard to visit Monte Sahaja, if you're not already a committed devotee.

A lot of the criticism of Mooji is by people who can't relate to Hindu devotional forms, either because they never were exposed to them, and it just looks weird, and looks as if people are idolizing someone, and giving their power away to an external parental figure, or by people who followed Indian gurus who were presented as being divine incarnations, as perfect masters, and were worshipped, sung to, bowed down to, etc., and the guru ended up taking advantage of their adoring disciples, and so these people got badly burned, and so are justifiably suspicious of any human being who is being worshipped, and treated like God. By Mooji having photos of himself put up everywhere - including being worn around the neck in a locket, and Mooji also having photos of his face and his feet being sold, it will trigger a lot of responses from people.

Again, please don't shoot the Messenger here.

I'm certain persons out there will take aim at these assertions and do their best to shred them.

It's only strange to me that so many still go to him if he's so bad. However, people still follow Adi-da, too, and some still attend meetings with James Swartz, believe the lies of Aaravindha Himadra, and... so, should this really surprise me?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: February 13, 2020 04:03AM

It has been Mooji’s plan to go in India sooner and arranged open satsang tour in Bangalore, Triruvannamalai, and later in Rishikesh. He rented large halls there to attract a local Hindi population, curious tourists, a local spiritual community members. Mooji wants to regain some popularity again and fish for new naïve followers. In Rishikesh 02/12/2020: [www.youtube.com], I guess there are mostly local people, I did not watch so many young western followers like the last year. Be’s article and discussion online has created some protection wall against Mooji for sane people.
What is happening in India around Gurus is a part of their culture: Moojibaba visits Amritanandamayi (Amma) at 0:50, watch the crowds of people there around corrupt Amma. [www.youtube.com]
Amma's reference here: Fb guruphiliac: The fraudsters gots to stick together.
[www.facebook.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 04:09AM by Horowitz.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: February 13, 2020 05:51AM

Hi Traveler99,

thanks for sharing what your friends think of Moo.
The most pertinent sentence from your friend, for me, is this one:


"The problem is that when some things are kept secret, one doesn't really know what is going on, and trust is broken."

Why is there so much secrecy in the Moo compound? Why was the relationship between Moo and Krishnabai kept secret in the first place? If it is a legitimate relationship - there would be no need for secrecy. People keep things secret when they feel they are doing something wrong. Or when they feel other people might perceive their actions as wrong.

If Moo is an enlightened being, he wouldn't be doing anything wrong, so therefore he wouldn't need to be secretive about anything.

So I guess this whole scenario shows that Moo is not an enlightened being; he is just some average Joe, who feels the need to deceive people, the very people who pay his way, by donating money and services.

Isn't this just plain fraud?

Another sentence from your friend's testimony that interests me is this one:

"I had spoken to another friend who was there during an exorcism that Mooji performed, that didn't work, and the woman who was supposedly possessed, flipped out and was taken to an insane asylum in Portugal. This friend visited her there. For her, that was also the last straw."

So; the woman's treatment for metal illness was delayed in order to perform some black magic voo-doo ceremony, for the purposes of what? To entertain the adoring crowds? It didn't work. Jesus, really? Of course it freaking didn't work! Meanwhile, the woman is suffering mental illness - and not receiving any treatment.

So, yes, you may say that suicides happen 'everywhere' and can't be predicted. Sure, but when they happen against a backdrop of gross negligence on behalf of a registered charity, then I think this is a concern.

What also interests me is this:

"Some of the more outrageous things about Mooji and his ashram may have changed since Be (Scofield's) article. That could be something to investigate."

If the Moo group were legitimate, why would they feel the need to change anything due to some criticism from a few ex-members? It doesn't make a lot of sense. If singing devotional hymns to Old Moo like he is some avatar or God fitted into their belief system, they why change it now? They believe he is an enlightened being - so they treat him as such. At the first sign of criticism, they suddenly pack up that belief and no longer hold it? Why?

I think we all know why- because it's a freaking cult.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: February 13, 2020 06:51AM

Quote
Sahara71
If Moo is an enlightened being, he wouldn't be doing anything wrong, so therefore he wouldn't need to be secretive about anything.

So I guess this whole scenario shows that Moo is not an enlightened being; he is just some average Joe, who feels the need to deceive people, the very people who pay his way, by donating money and services.

With all respect, I think this kind of thinking is part of the problem. There is this myth that there's a phenomenon called enlightenment that elevates someone forever beyond human weakness. Many of my posts here have been about the fact that the reality of the awakening process is much more complex and subtle (and lately I've been writing about the neural correlates of this awakening process that are being discovered). When we caricature the awakening process as the mythical phenomenon of perfect enlightenment, you can either (seemingly reasonably) dismiss its reality, or (irrationally) believe in it and attribute it to certain people, such as self-proclaimed enlightened gurus, and be tempted to abdicate your authority to them.

But it's not reasonable in the first place to distort the reality of the phenomenon by caricaturing it, and it doesn't do anyone any good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 06:54AM by zizlz.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: February 13, 2020 08:32AM

Yes, I agree Zizlz,

probably God is also imperfect - making him of course "not-God", rather than "God". And probably most of the people we think of a 'good people' are just people, being neither good nor bad.

And the concept of 'Goodness' is also questionable in itself - being that you can only define it in relation to other good things, or by using synonyms of the word "good". Looking at it this way, there is no good nor bad and everything is up for grabs.

But I do think in the vast majority of cases, an enlightened being would be held up to certain ethical standards... not that they are technically above ever doing anything "wrong". They are certainly capable of wrong-doing, it's just that they wouldn't want to anything wrong (assuming things can indeed be 'wrong' in the first place!)

If someone sustains a deceitful position over a long period of time - and relies on that deceit in order to earn a living.... and allows people to treat them as though they are 'God', worshiping their 'person'.... then I think we have a problem.

But of course, many people don't see a problem, they are perfectly happy with the situation and all this doesn't bother them one iota. Yes, I understand.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: February 13, 2020 06:51PM

Quote
Sahara71
If someone sustains a deceitful position over a long period of time - and relies on that deceit in order to earn a living.... and allows people to treat them as though they are 'God', worshiping their 'person'.... then I think we have a problem.

But of course, many people don't see a problem, they are perfectly happy with the situation and all this doesn't bother them one iota.

Agreed, that's a very important point! It reminds me of what the person asking critical questions at Mooji's recent satsang said (at 1:06):
[www.youtube.com]

Quote

I want to ask you if you are aware of the fact that unconsciously many people coming to you are actually trying to replicate an image of you, not the reality of you, because they don't perceive the totality of you. They don't perceive you as a human being also, and I feel this is a missing component in your teaching, a very very missing component in your teaching, because they can not be complete unless they see you as a human also—with your emotions, with your screaming, with your shouting, with everything that you are, as a human.

It would be great if Mooji could learn from this kind of feedback, but of course he can't. I think the problem is that he believes the same enlightenment myth that his students believe in and he sees himself narcissistically through this mythical lens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 06:53PM by zizlz.

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