replies
Posted by:
Constantin
()
Date: November 29, 2018 07:01PM
Yes amount of letters he truly gets is not known as i explained before because the group of close individuals who hide and obscure letters and interactions with and from moo. In that way he is really in the dark. He never really knows how much is happening really and what is being said, take into account the vast amount of infighting between various groups in different countries also. And also the normal followers are not always kept up to date a lot happens that is not talked about Gossip is extremely fought and anyone with any stories about anything is sought after. This usually ends with a expulsion.
And those with power are people like, Uma, Shri, Laxmi krishna, parvati, ribu shoban arun and few more.
cl
And those with power are people like, Uma, Shri, Laxmi krishna, parvati, ribu shoban arun and few more.
cl
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 29, 2018 09:54PM
Constantin wrote:
"politics and power games within the Ashram".
As is the case in any organization.
But this does not gel with the image of the ashram.
It would be normal for a business to hide its inner bullshit from CUSTOMERS.
But when all your labor is for free, the line between customers and staff has to be blurred. Because why are you just giving free labor to a totally average organization ? And if these staff members are getting daily contact for years with the guru, why are they acting like this?
"politics and power games within the Ashram".
As is the case in any organization.
But this does not gel with the image of the ashram.
It would be normal for a business to hide its inner bullshit from CUSTOMERS.
But when all your labor is for free, the line between customers and staff has to be blurred. Because why are you just giving free labor to a totally average organization ? And if these staff members are getting daily contact for years with the guru, why are they acting like this?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Horowitz
()
Date: November 30, 2018 02:53AM
Uma, Shri, Laxmi krishna, parvati, ribu shoban arun mentioned be Constantin above must also be employees of the Mooji’s foundation and Mooji’s Media, they are probably on a payroll and take care about the business and everything in ashram and the names of directors at the Mooji Foundation/Media webs (above) located in Italy, Germany, and even in Canada must be some fictive persons, naïve volunteers or paid second-hand law firm persons. The Moojj’s Media and Foundation are practically managed directly from Monte Sahaja – it’s the real profitable company there with the employees. All is put together what is always typical for Mooji.
There is an interesting seminar from the scientific point of view about spiritual awakening, brain chemistry/physiology, (DMT Ayahusca, cortex...), way of perceptions, and measuring some brain waves…
[www.youtube.com]
The Default Mode Network & End of Suffering - Gary Weber, (30 min.)
Gary Weber has been a scientist and entered into spiritual silence several years ago, and he said that his brain with typical, blah, blah, blah, and a self-dialogue stopped with that and simply turned it off. (his book: into the stillness).
It is interesting that his personality and mind seems to be still strong, but many personal attachments have fallen away from him (in another seminar at YT) and the stillness remain constantly present in himself. It looks like that the priority, the Mooji’s focus on giving up the own person to attain some spiritual awakenings, may not be completely true, the spiritual awakening and the process of let go of the person seems to be separated processes and do not need to be related to each other immediately....
There is an interesting seminar from the scientific point of view about spiritual awakening, brain chemistry/physiology, (DMT Ayahusca, cortex...), way of perceptions, and measuring some brain waves…
[www.youtube.com]
The Default Mode Network & End of Suffering - Gary Weber, (30 min.)
Gary Weber has been a scientist and entered into spiritual silence several years ago, and he said that his brain with typical, blah, blah, blah, and a self-dialogue stopped with that and simply turned it off. (his book: into the stillness).
It is interesting that his personality and mind seems to be still strong, but many personal attachments have fallen away from him (in another seminar at YT) and the stillness remain constantly present in himself. It looks like that the priority, the Mooji’s focus on giving up the own person to attain some spiritual awakenings, may not be completely true, the spiritual awakening and the process of let go of the person seems to be separated processes and do not need to be related to each other immediately....
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: November 30, 2018 03:42AM
Constantin,
That is very interesting. You paint a picture of an ashram plunged into secrecy, where no-one seems to really know what is going on! Moo seems to be manipulated by those who are in the know. It seems really sad and pointless... I don't know what the purpose of trying to run a charity like this is?
Anyone who has any information gets expelled from the group. Why aren't there proper processes in place to handle complaints and discuss policy? It just seems like a free-for-all, with no order or transparency.
As a registered charity, they need to have a complaints policy.
I wouldn't mind inferring that when someone gets expelled for knowing too much, they come up with a story to tell the followers; "Oh, that person left in the middle of the night without telling anyone. Now she has cut off all contact with the ashram. How ungrateful was she?"
That is very interesting. You paint a picture of an ashram plunged into secrecy, where no-one seems to really know what is going on! Moo seems to be manipulated by those who are in the know. It seems really sad and pointless... I don't know what the purpose of trying to run a charity like this is?
Anyone who has any information gets expelled from the group. Why aren't there proper processes in place to handle complaints and discuss policy? It just seems like a free-for-all, with no order or transparency.
As a registered charity, they need to have a complaints policy.
I wouldn't mind inferring that when someone gets expelled for knowing too much, they come up with a story to tell the followers; "Oh, that person left in the middle of the night without telling anyone. Now she has cut off all contact with the ashram. How ungrateful was she?"
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: November 30, 2018 03:50AM
Horowitz, yes,
I agree. When you embrace your spirituality, you become more of who you truly are, and it is a good thing. You don't just throw away your "person". There is nothing wrong with being a person. The spirit expresses itself in the material realm as a person.
Getting in touch with your true self is in a way a casting off of the ego identity but it is not a denial of any kind of identity at all! Of course we do exist and the world exists and we are here to enjoy our lives, not deny them.
I will have to watch the video by Gary Weber - thank you.
I agree. When you embrace your spirituality, you become more of who you truly are, and it is a good thing. You don't just throw away your "person". There is nothing wrong with being a person. The spirit expresses itself in the material realm as a person.
Getting in touch with your true self is in a way a casting off of the ego identity but it is not a denial of any kind of identity at all! Of course we do exist and the world exists and we are here to enjoy our lives, not deny them.
I will have to watch the video by Gary Weber - thank you.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 30, 2018 07:22AM
[urbanchicks.nl]
This article, by a zmar participant it seems, asks the question: is mooji the next osho?
It raises two interesting points:
1. Yup
2. What's dutch for clickbait?
This article, by a zmar participant it seems, asks the question: is mooji the next osho?
It raises two interesting points:
1. Yup
2. What's dutch for clickbait?
Compare Zmar description w Constantin reports of Monte Sahaja
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 30, 2018 10:09PM
This person's description of the food at the Zmar retreat (a recruitment point for persons who might get more deeply involved w Moo later on?) differs from what Constantin reported of the food provided for ashram denizens at Monte Sahaja.
We need to learn what kind of food Moo and his inner circle are given.
(Corboy note: how can one imagine that denizens of Monte Sahaja might live in very different, quite inferior conditions - and be spied on, as alleged by Constantin and others?)
vs Constantin's report at Monte Sahaja
[translate.google.com]
Fow you are greeted at a Zmar retreat vs how (reported by Constantin) peope were were treated at Monte Sahaja when the Moo Romance ended.
Two comments that follow the New Osho article.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 10:17PM by corboy.
We need to learn what kind of food Moo and his inner circle are given.
Quote
The food that was prepared three times a day was delicious. Between the satsangs, you could go ahead. Just walk, swim, find a nice place to meditate, in short you imagine yourself in a paradise like Eva before she ate the apple.
(Corboy note: how can one imagine that denizens of Monte Sahaja might live in very different, quite inferior conditions - and be spied on, as alleged by Constantin and others?)
vs Constantin's report at Monte Sahaja
Quote
[forum.culteducation.com]
The food we get os not so great. They put little salt in the food so then you end up in the shop buying chips and things. More and more commercial activity. Now they are two Cafe's. And the pizzeria should be opening, but I heard that those papers for a restaurant licence where not granted.
[translate.google.com]
Quote
Yet I could see everything that happened there from a distance and saw all devotees who considered Mooji a new god. That kind of worship only ensures that you get further away from yourself. You become part of one major common denominator and walk along with the crowd. No longer thinking about it yourself, but accepting everything uncritically, was the danger of the Osho movement and is the danger for Mooji and his (future) followers. Many people get bogged down in a spiritual haze through this worship. It gives you blinkers and also stops your self-examination because you have already found it with your teacher.
Exclusion
I personally think that life itself is your greatest teacher. In every life, opportunities for growth appear. There is no real control over your life, there is everything that can happen to you. Beautiful things, but also difficult and sad events. It may very well be that you have gained insights via Mooji or other teachers who can help you, that applies to me too. But I do live in this world and I do not shut people out because they do not fit into my (spiritual) club. Traditionally, people are looking for groups to belong to because it offers safety. Just look at the history of what misery has brought; the glorification of leaders often makes us feel a sense of feeling, feelings of power, we are better than the rest. It takes a lot of energy and courage to put you outside the collective once you are in it, so you stay.
Criticism
Blinkers are creeping up when you are in the herd; you only see the things you want to see. Criticism is no longer there, because there are other, more beautiful things to delve into. So it was the supporters of Osho and so I saw it happen in the week retreat at Mooji. One arrives in an organized group with like-minded people and wants to stay there because it feels so wonderful, but that bliss is usually short-lived; once you leave the group it disappears. You can of course come to certain insights by spiritual teachers. Listen to what they say, be critical, but live your own life and not that of the group!
Fow you are greeted at a Zmar retreat vs how (reported by Constantin) peope were were treated at Monte Sahaja when the Moo Romance ended.
Quote
[translate.google.com]
Around Mooji there is - just like with Osho at the time - an entire organization that ensures that everything runs smoothly. And that is what it does, I have experienced.
Full of attention and love you are welcomed in the bus with a namaste, on the way to the place where the retreat takes place. At this retreat we are with about seven hundred people who are all looking for the same. That creates a bond. Mooji gives a satsang three times a day, he speaks and (uncritical) questions can be asked.
Quote
Thank you for your notes. I sway back and forth between leaving and staying, the Ashram is "Shutting Down" once again which means basically means we kick anybody out we don't want.
...
. Which reminds me of the new land that was bought a while back, five times bigger, where nothing has happened because of legal issues. Locals had to vote on the issue and it failed.
A little bit wild wild country here. I remember people being asked to vote.
(Corboy Shades of Rajneesh/Osho at Antelope Valley, Oregon!)
It's really sad that Moo doesn't own up to any of these issues and fails to deliver transparency.
If you really have nothing to hide then you can speak openly about anything.
One reason for my Anonymity here is the fear of back-lash I have seen over the years that other people went through.
One man with family was kicked out for speaking out. He had a family and was working on the land to support his children.
Over the years many people have left us and I guess soon I will also be one of them. Its too bad, I really had high hopes that mooo had something special to offer.
Two comments that follow the New Osho article.
Quote
Paul (Surname omitted for privacy - Corboy)
November 19, 2018
Dear Anna,
After reading your article, I would like to respond. I am surprised about your story. It is 100% false. You have unfortunately not understood the message of self-realization that Mooji speaks about. The 'we against the rest' feeling that you are referring to is not at all the order. It is precisely through the Satsang that you come closer to your true self and you will understand all people, spiritually or not, from the point of non-duality and you will see that most people speak from their egos and not from their true 'Being'. If you really experience and feel that you will understand each person better and you will be more understanding and with more love towards others in life.
Sincerely,
Paul
REPLY
marga
November 21, 2018
Dear Paul, something is never 100% false or true. Anna's experiences are clearly less positive than yours. This does not mean that she did not understand it at all. The documentary "Wild Wild Country" clearly shows two sides of a story within a context of the spirit of the times. I am glad for you that you have found your truth, but I find Anna's critical view of spiritual leaders and guru admirable because she chooses her own life and not the pressure from the group around the guru.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 10:17PM by corboy.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 30, 2018 10:09PM
"As seitas são, assim, sociedades religiosas lideradas por um individuo carismático que, ao invés de fazer a ponte entre o Divino e o homem, coloca-se no centro da religião, passando a ser ele o pai de toda a comunidade, numa atitude de falso paternalismo. Um líder que promove a desigualdade entre membros, colocando-se no topo de uma hierarquia elitista. Um líder que vai juntando súbditos, ludibriando-os com verdades absolutas que questionam toda a existência prévia destes, qual Lúcifer a convencer os anjos a rebelarem-se contra Deus. Como? Através de uma falsa promessa de bem-estar (de prazer físico ou espiritual, de prosperidade financeira), da plena convicção do líder ser enviado à Terra com uma verdade exclusiva, à qual ninguém ainda teve acesso. O líder carismático pega, então nesta exclusividade religiosa e inicia um grupo sectário, uma espécie de elite, não acessível a todos."
"Cults are thus religious societies led by a charismatic individual who, instead of bridging the Divine with man, places himself at the center of religion, becoming the father of the whole community in an attitude of false paternalism A leader who promotes inequality between members, placing himself at the top of an elitist hierarchy A leader who joins subjects, deceiving them with absolute truths that question all their previous existence, which Lucifer convinces the angels (of physical or spiritual pleasure, of financial prosperity), of the full conviction of the leader to be sent to Earth with an exclusive truth, to which no one has yet gained access The charismatic leader then takes on this religious exclusivity and initiates a sectarian group, a kind of elite, not accessible to all. "
[observador.pt]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 10:25PM by happytown.
"Cults are thus religious societies led by a charismatic individual who, instead of bridging the Divine with man, places himself at the center of religion, becoming the father of the whole community in an attitude of false paternalism A leader who promotes inequality between members, placing himself at the top of an elitist hierarchy A leader who joins subjects, deceiving them with absolute truths that question all their previous existence, which Lucifer convinces the angels (of physical or spiritual pleasure, of financial prosperity), of the full conviction of the leader to be sent to Earth with an exclusive truth, to which no one has yet gained access The charismatic leader then takes on this religious exclusivity and initiates a sectarian group, a kind of elite, not accessible to all. "
[observador.pt]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 10:25PM by happytown.
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