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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: November 17, 2018 12:36AM

An interview on traumatic narcissism. Very interesting but a little hard to hear- much clearer with earphones in.

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2018 12:52AM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: November 17, 2018 05:16AM

Alonzo,

Constantin talked about a purchase of a land five times bigger then Mooji”s ashram, I think he reported on the land in neighborhood: Vela da Vinha: [valedavinha.com]: Located 5 km from Monte Sahaja, Vale da Vinha offers an ideal environment for those of you who wish to stay in the field of the Sangha. With 6 hectares of beautiful nature in the bottom of a quiet valley, Vale da Vinha offers an ideal environment for…, plus look at Krishnabai advertisement below and direct advertisements from ashram above (in Mooji’s real estate thread..)

Quote:
Mooji a cult, Posted by: Constantin, November 08, 2018:
….More and more commercial activity. Now they are two Cafe's. And the pizzeria should be opening, but I heard that those papers for a restaurant licence where not granted. Which reminds me of the new land that was bought a while back, five times bigger, where nothing has happened because of legal issues. Locals had to vote on the issue and it failed. A little bit wild wild country here. I remember people being asked to vote….”
2) Krishnabai advertises “Beautiul Sangha apartment in Albufeira” resort here (She is the Mooji’s first secretary):
“[amoreiras.info]
If interested please contact Krishnabai (contacts bellow)
Email: krishnabai@mooji.org.”

I think there is some evidences here about ownership and renting by Mooji’s enterprises from Monte Sahaja ashram. It could be ran by Mooji Media, Ltd company to collect a financial fund for ashram on a free tax basis….

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: November 17, 2018 05:55AM

I'm told that it's the property called "sahaja valley" that is/was plagued by legal troubles, Locals are worried what might happen when the bubble bursts.

As most Sangha members will know, all the properties on that website are privately owned. Such obvious misinformation make it easier for everyone to dismiss everything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2018 06:10AM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 17, 2018 06:01AM

That's very interesting, Horowitz,

I wonder if Khrishnabai owns the apartment or if she is only advertising it for a friend?

If the profits from a rental property are going through Mooji Media Ltd, then they would have to be very small amounts. They are already listing over £700,000 as sales from "media and products" which looks like it comes from selling retreats and intensives, as far as I can tell.

Could a rental property come under "media and products"? I don't see much listed under 'tangible assets' at Mooji Media, so I don't think it is there.... All I could see was some 'equipment' listed there. I don't think an apartment would be 'equipment', do you? I really have to double check this, but I'm a bit busy right now.

One thing- Mooji Media are exempt from auditing, as they are a 'small company', so it's difficult to say what they are doing. They don't have to reveal much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2018 06:03AM by Sahara71.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: November 17, 2018 06:07AM

Former siddhayoga member and therapist Daniel Shaw spent 13 years with a Hindu based guru. This podcast on how to recognize a cult:

[soundcloud.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: i yam what i yam ()
Date: November 17, 2018 07:47PM

Listening now to the Daniel Shaw interview:

"The group is a cult when the actual work of the group is really only about inflating the delusional leader's idea of his own perfection and of his own omnipotence.

The actual work of a cult is to make sure that that guru is constantly [inaudible] so that they can hold on to their delusion of omnipotence.

And members' work is basically to glorify, basically to join that delusion and glorify that deluded leader.

And that's a cult"

DING-DONG!!!

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Keep people waiting and tell them not to talk - a Moo event 2016
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 18, 2018 12:24AM

Description of a Moo event in India

This authors seems to like Moo. She gives some very intriguing descriptions of rules and behavior expected of people lining up for a Moo event.

It looks from the persons description like you are instructed not to talk even while waiting to be let in to a Moo event? My God, if this is true, it means you cannot even mutter to a friend or neighbor that your feet hurt and WTF are you being expected to wait around like this?

Indoctrinational environment begins even while you are merely waiting in line.

It is also a power play. Powerful people keep underlings waiting. Classic guru trick, BTW. The longer you wait, the more you justify to yourself that the event has to be worth it - right?

Moo has clearly learned a lot about crowd management. Ya dont learn this from getting enlightened.

You learn this because you've studied up on this, maybe served an apprenticeship helping out setting up other guru events. Having Osho types on your staff can also be a source of expert info on how to manage large groups of people - and manage their expectations, too.

Note how the author wanted to cling to the feeling.

And, note how all rules must be followed to preserve the mood. If enlightenment
is so simple, so stable, why all the excessive regimentation?


[allisonswanderland.com]

Quote

Rishikesh, India — March 2016
Today, after meditation and yoga we walked south, past the Indian man chanting into a microphone in front of a movie camera, beyond the women washing clothes in the Ganges, through an alley and onto a road to see Mooji.

The line seemed terribly long, but we had heard they admitted people by lottery so our chances were as good as anyone’s to get a good seat. So many of these gatherings take on a cult-like atmosphere, this was no different. Perhaps it was the ‘no talking’ dictate, or the helpers all in white. It is referred to as a Sattvic environment – pure, balanced. Whatever the case, I’ve been down this road before and it didn’t worry me.

As we waited to be admitted, we took in life around us as it was taking us in: Families with children looking down from their roof tops and marveling at these people that line up day after day, doors cracked to allow the curious to peek out and men seated on stoops having their normal conversations as if this was nothing new.

Quote

here is a member of our group that is a long time follower and she has graciously led us here today.As luck would have it, many of us are in the line that is chosen first to find a seat.

The hall is big, with chairs lining both sides and a wide center portion set with pillows a little too closely together on the floor in the the front and wide open seating behind that.

(Corboy: We need to learn more about the seating arrangement at Moo satsangs and retreats. In this article, note that description of the seating in front, compared to the wide open seating behind those front row seats.

Who sit in that front row seating. We need to learn more.

On CEI message board we have identified the importance of chair spacing as part of the mood altering indoctrination recipe for Large Group Awareness Trainings (LGATs). In most LGATs, chairs are spaced so closely together that this violates normal physical boundaries. Indian psychiatrist Sudhir Kakar visited a guru satsang group and had a lot to say about how normal physical and emotional boundaries dissolve when we sit very, very closely together.)

A single chair and a couple of plants occupies the stage in front of all of this. We chose chairs as close as we could get, maybe 10 rows back, stage right.

And waited.

A woman in white took the stage first informing us of the rules of Mooji. It seems as if his message is all about liberation, as all questions were to be directed to that topic. There were standing microphones placed a few rows in on either aisle. If Mooji called on your raised hand, you were to speak your question into the microphone at close proximity so no one had to strain to hear you. Please make the questions universal and not personal. About liberation.

We were strongly encouraged to stay in our seats until Mooji exited. No bathroom breaks or leaving early, please. If we felt we might want to do either of those, we were invited to take a less disruptive place in the back of the large hall.

Finally he joined us. I now know he is Jamaican. I found his presence very soothing and grounding. He sat, covered his lap with a blanket then paused with the mic that was to rest on his ear, held aloft, as he gazed out at the audience with the most gentle smile in his eyes.

Quote

Once he placed the mic on his ear he spoke for several moments on the prison of our habits. Boom. Most of my nonfiction reading lately has been about this very subject – some of it even on purpose, some ‘accidental.’ I was listening.

Once he opened the floor up, it seemed despite the clear instruction at the beginning, each question was pretty personal in nature, but he was able to answer on a broader level. The people who stood to speak were infused with that yoga high I’ve become all too aquatinted with. It’s not lasting. Not like this. Once they leave the confines of their bubble, the real world often comes barreling back in to challenge their newfound liberation. I hoped they have the tools to take home to integrate, so the high can settle into a well-worn sort of bliss.

Here's where it gets personal. Two, how many of us want to risk being recorded or photographed when we are so vulnerable, eh?

Quote

One woman was invited onto the stage where she sobbed uncontrollably into Mooji’s lap. He very tenderly rubbed her back as she continued to wail into his microphone. His compassion was palpable, his reach wide, I too dropped into his energetic embrace.

As the woman’s sobs subsided, he began to teach from this experience. She was clear now, she got it and the rest of us could get it too. I nodded to myself but I’m not entirely sure that I did get it.

....(edited for brevity- Corboy)

The woman who had let it all go at the feet of her guru stayed with me. Witnessing that experience along with the other teachings left me contemplative.

Now, notice how the author wanted to cling to the mood.

Quote

When we were at last permitted to leave, I just wanted to find an empty space and sit. The exit was ordered and quiet – everyone was still observing silence – all the way through shoe retrieval and to the fence at the edge of the property.

I wanted to stay quiet. I wanted to sit in a bubble where these ideas, thoughts and challenges could bounce around me without landing, passing before my eyes and awareness for review or dismissal as I saw fit.

But this is India and quiet is a foreign concept. Just outside the gate others began sharing their experiences. I wanted them to stop talking to me. I wanted the kids to stop playing, the horns to stop beeping. I wanted quiet.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 18, 2018 12:28AM

More observations of Moo from someone who seems taken by him.

You can read the entire article here. The author does seem to like Moo.

[www.petermellen.org]

Quote

His talks usually last two and a half hours. He is a great storyteller, and often has the audience laughing uproariously at his gestures and sound effects. I find watching him mesmerizing. Words just seem to flow through him, How can someone who grew up in Jamaica, and with no formal education, speak from a place of such wisdom, I ask myself?

What amazes me the most is that it’s not what he’s saying which is important. It’s what is being communicated beyond words. By some miracle there is a transmission of energy that comes through all those little pixels on the screen that creates a deep sense of calm in me. It is this silent transmission which is at the heart of what Mooji has to say.

I’ve watched with fascination as Mooji has moved from teaching to a few people in his living room, to having sold-out retreats for a thousand people, with many more thousands watching on TV. Mooji has become the guru of the moment, like a brilliant meteor streaming through the sky. He now has his own retreat center in Portugal, with hundreds of young seekers giving up their everyday lives to come and live with him. There is a palpable sense of excitement in the air as this new community takes form.

It is like a throwback to the eighties, when spiritual communities were popping up everywhere. He often says he is not here to create a community; he is here to set you free. He clearly is a very charismatic leader.

After my own experience of being in a cult, I am highly sensitive to signs of cult behavior.

I’ve watched with some concern as those around him have become more and more openly demonstrative in showing their love for him. Many of his female devotees bow to his feet, sometimes moaning and weeping as they declare their love for their teacher. It’s clear that Mooji does not discourage any of this behavior, and in fact encourages it. It reminds me of when I fell head over heels for my guru, all starry-eyed and innocent.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 18, 2018 12:36AM

I can't remember if this article has been listed on the Moo thread. Looks like a very, very interesting read. The author makes a point that hierarchies are needed for communities to be durable and capable of social cooperation. The author points out the special dangers of communities organized around someone claiming a subjective state that is superior to everyone else's.

“Why Spiritual Communities Turn Into Cults”


[metamoderna.org]

Here are comments that pertain to Moo:

Quote

Concerned parent
21 January, 2018 at 04:58 PM
My 17-year-old daughter has been brainwashed by Mooji. Before listening to him (hours a day), she was a brilliant, conscious child. Now she is suicidal, doesn’t eat, sleep, take care of her body, only wants to listen to this so-called ‘guru’ all the time! I have read other parents concerns experiencing the same thing with their children. I am warning EVERYONE out there, to beware of Mooji. If my daughter dies, her blood is on his hands! I am so disgusted with him! Everyone BEWARE of the wolf in sheeps clothing. If anyone has any suggestions for me to get her out of this hypnotic state/ trance she is in, I am open to it. If anyone has experienced any other experiences similar to this after listening to him, I would love to hear. Thank you!


TH
26 March, 2018 at 10:24 PM

To: Concerned parent — she sounds exactly like me when I was 17. I ended up spending 13 years living at the ashram of one of the so-called gurus mentioned in Hanzi Freinacht’s superb article here (he and Mooji had the same teacher, HWL Poonja), and half a decade later I’m still recovering from PTSD.

One thing I wish my parents had done when I was 17–rather than their panicked hand-wringing and frustrated yelling at me to snap out of it, do my homework, and get my act together–was to actively listen and really try to understand what I found interesting about these spiritual teachings. To engage your daughter in constructive dialogue about your concerns about the potential limitations of Mooji-ism, you have to try to understand the appeal, or at least attempt to elicit from her what she finds so compelling about it.

The main problem with Mooji’s view, of course, is exactly what Freinacht spells out above: high subjective states and insights (such as nondual realization) may have little to no impact on any other area of one’s objective life, relationships, finances, health, morality, etc.–not without much concerted effort to bring all aspects of life into a wholesome, integral alignment. (As Ken Wilber writes about at length in his books.)

Unfortunately, Mooji teaches Neo-Advaita, which is a half-baked interpretation of nonduality that essentially devalues worldly life in gross and subtle ways. This position leads naturally to a common psychological pathology known as “spiritual bypassing,” wherein one employs the promised serenity of spiritual teachings like a drug to avoid and ignore the natural complexities of ordinary living, such as one’s emotional confusion (pain), relationships, and responsibilities. (In a proper nonduality, all aspects of life would be made more vibrantly “enlightened”–full of vitality, exuding joy and health–not ignored, bypassed, or allowed to fall into states of inertial disrepair.)

The deeper issue here, though, is simply your daughter’s depression, of which the spiritual bypassing and Mooji obsession is likely just a symptom. (When people are happy and fulfilled, they don’t go seeking for enlightenment.)

And for that, without knowing the details or being at all qualified to offer a professional diagnosis, a random internet stranger can only recommend the usual: psychotherapeutic care, lots of sunshine, vitamin-D supplements, enough sleep, plenty of water, good food, good friends, and great conversation–starting, perhaps, with parents asking, in all loving sincerity, just what’s so compelling about this Jamaican Advaita Zen master?


Admin
30 March, 2018 at 05:38 PM
The Concerned Parent replied:

“Thank you for responding and showing me a deeper insight. You are very good with words/explanation. I really do appreciate it! I will utilize your advice and speak with her on this. She is in a mental hospital right now because she attempted suicide so some things she’s unable to do right now like sunshine. I agree with what you said on people who are happy do t seek enlightenment. That’s exactly what happened.

She said she was seeking guidance but her father and I didn’t/dont know how to give her that guidance she needs because she’s always been very deep and I guess you can say we are more shallow. But your advice is helpful. I will start with that. Right now, she is not eating much food in the hospital. We r just trying to get her to eat food to want to live. You are an amazing spiritual being and I really do appreciate you. Please contact me anytime you want to share more.”


Diana
7 May, 2018 at 06:52 AM

I had the worst expirience with mooji he brainwashed my partner, as a result he left me, even though I was sick, without work, without money. We had a good relationship for 4 years , but my partner went to a 5 days silence retreat and never come back. The worst part is that mooji and his people keep saying to him that I was selfish, that I should be happy that he was there, despite the fact I was left totally alone, very sick, in total despair and for one month I begged him to come back. I wonder where is the compassion of this guru, where is the unconditional love.

My ex partner keep responding to me that all is an illusion, that we don’t exist, therefore there is not committment o responsability with nothing. For me this guru just have a very profitable business, and is full of s…. All what he does is reapiting the same story, the same jokes, the same words over and over and charged lot of money for that. I followed him for a year and got a big depression and anxiety because even though I tried to follow his main point that we are no the person I could not deny myself or life because is here it’s real even though it will end some day.


Przemek

10 April, 2018 at 07:42 PM
All I can suggest you is to teach her how to question what she learns. There is a method from kognitive behavioral therapy, The socratic method. Socrates thought that to trully advance in life, one must question ones own thoughts. You do that by asking yourself ‘is this really true’, ‘which proof do I have that this is true’.

Through this approach you’re not teaching her what to do but rather use her jerning for enlightment in a constructive way.
I hope it helps!


Sue
4 August, 2018 at 11:18 AM
I just wanted to share my story about my involvement with Mooji. It all started 3 weeks ago- I am overseas and I don’t speak the local language, so hence I am a bit lonely. My husband is very busy with work here, while for me it is more or less a holiday.

I also lost my Dad due to cancer about 5 months ago, so I am questioning a lot of things right now. I have always had an interest in spiritual ideas and have read many books about spirituality. I would call myself an intelligent person, by the way… I am actually studying for my Ph.D. at the moment.

One of my friends back home is into Mooji and hence I was aware of him in a off-hand way. I started watching his videos online, just out of interest. They are very amusing and seductive…. he has a soft voice with a lilting Jamaican accent which I find appealing. He also has a bit of a “Bob Marley” vibe about him… and I love Bob Marley’s music! (By the way, I don’t smoke drugs… so don’t worry!)

Mooji preaches a kind of spirituality that is very, very appealing…. because you don’t have to do anything; you just have to “be aware” and retreat into your own heart. In some ways it feels like a very pleasant “escape” from the real world of emotions, relationships, work, etc. But it is not a total escape, because Mooji still encourages you to “enjoy the world” and everything in it. What’s not to like, eh? You can enjoy the world, have relationships, eat pizza and go dancing, only…. and this is the catch: it isn’t exactly ‘important’ what you do, because your own Divine inner reality is what is really important.

Do you find this just a little confusing? I do!

But because I am in a vulnerable position… I felt myself starting to fall for this stuff.

Mooji makes use of a lot of different spiritual ideas- especially those related to Buddhism, esoteric Hindu practices and even Christianity. He himself was raised as a Christian. Because I had read a lot of spiritual texts, his Buddhist ideas resonated with me, especially. A lot of what Mooji teaches closely resembles Zen teachings… which in themselves can be confusing and very “mystical”….

When I was an undergrad student, my philosophy professor actually told me to “beware of mysticism”, I remember his words specifically. It is very hard to critique mystical teachings because they are beyond words and rely of experiential understandings… Hence, I guess a lot of cult leaders would value mysticism highly, because you can’t intellectualize it. Therefore, it could potentially be easily used to manipulate and confuse people. I have the feeling that Mooji is working in this way…. he may in fact be ‘genuine’ and believe his own weird stuff… I don’t know.

I haven’t read a lot of criticism of Mooji out there on the internet, just one or two isolated cases.

One thing I will say, is there does seem to be something very hypnotic and addictive about his videos… and they are free to watch online.

Back to my story…. last week, I even considered giving up my Ph.D studies and travelling to Mooji’s ashram to learn more! Wow! This week, I have come to my senses. I have a Ph.D to complete and I have a loving husband by my side. I don’t really need a whole lot of new-age spiritual hokus-pokus to interrupt what is essentially a very good, productive life.

I have noticed that a lot of Mooji’s followers in his online videos are people who are unhappy and/or mentally ill. There was one woman in particular that seemed irrational and manic and I thought she desperately needed a psychiatrist…. not a Mystic. I hope she managed to get help. Seeing the video footage of her… I actually wondered why it wasn’t edited out of Mooji’s official video? Because seeing it really did paint a very sad picture of the whole ashram set-up. In fact, this footage helped to bring me to my senses.

I am now actively questioning Mooji’s teachings on his facebook page and I am sure it will not be long before my posts start to get deleted!!

I welcome any comments or feedback. Thank you.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: November 18, 2018 04:24AM

Thank you Corboy,

I totally agree with the following statement:

>
>" Unfortunately, Mooji teaches Neo-Advaita, which is
> a half-baked interpretation of nonduality that
> essentially devalues worldly life in gross and
> subtle ways. This position leads naturally to a
> common psychological pathology known as “spiritual
> bypassing,” wherein one employs the promised
> serenity of spiritual teachings like a drug to
> avoid and ignore the natural complexities of
> ordinary living, such as one’s emotional confusion
> (pain), relationships, and responsibilities."

I think that people who embrace this type of thinking, this lame perversion of Atvaita, are trying to escape reality, but this can never work. What happens is you end up disassociated from life. Like this woman's ex partner:


>
>" My ex partner keep responding to me that all is an
> illusion, that we don’t exist, therefore there is
> not committment o responsability with nothing. For
> me this guru just have a very profitable business,
> and is full of s…. All what he does is reapiting
> the same story, the same jokes, the same words
> over and over and charged lot of money for that."

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