This post by jgf75 needs to be looked at a bit closer, its very revealing. [forum.culteducation.com
That jgf75 post was addressed here previously, and it is full of errors, with false information about hypnotherapy, and actually serves to expose an agenda.
[jgf75 picked up on the Mary Poppins image induction, written by Michael Katz]
The first question is, who might jgf75 be?
Its clearly someone who is doing some spin-doctoring for Byron Katie, as instead of dealing with the careful FACTS in the guruphiliac forum about the BK seminars, they try to take it out on a tangent.
Even though they put some criticism of BK in there, that is actually the best way to deal with criticism. For example, talk to a BK facilitator and criticize BK, what will they do? They will just do the Work on it, and then turn-it-around on YOU. They've been trained how to do that, even BK tried to do it with UG Krishnamurti when he called the BK Work a "gimmick".
But from looking at some of the posts by jgf75, and how they changed tactics after this post backfired, it does give some clues.
Its likely someone who markets the BK seminars for a living, or someone who gets a thrill out of getting his hands dirty dealing personally with the public...like Stephen Mitchell.
[Stephen Mitchell's email tactics, "weird and perverted"] [forum.culteducation.com
[Feb 2008, manipulative email tactics] [forum.culteducation.com
There is a telling phrase...about someone who is laughing all the way to the bank as they twist people around their little finger? Another whoops...who does that sound like? Freudian slip?
Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell, literally have a community of people literally twisted around their little finger, to the point where people are on their knees crying before BK in parking lots.
And using the "same techniques" on people? Which techniques? You mean the exact techniques that are being exposed in this thread, and that others like Byron Katie and Friends, are trying their hardest to conceal and pretend they don't exist? Talk about another freudian slip.
What is the motivation for posting here?
Making millions? Getting gifts? LGAT seminar fees? of course not.
Its called having a conscience.
[dishonorable and egregious abuse and misuse of these techniques]
You see, those who know about these methods, and happen to have a "conscience", happen to think using them all at once to hammer soccer moms for selfish purposes, is wrong, and people are getting hurt.
There are some who do criticize BK, but say its not about helping people, it just is what it is...well, that is more Byron Katie brainwashing, frankly. BK may say that anything goes, and there is no such thing as good or evil, but she is wrong there too. Its all part of her system of desensitizing people.
So what is the motivation for posting? Its called having a human conscience.
And the same knowledge can also apply to many other current anti-guru's as well.
Why would jgf75 go off-topic of the BK School seminars in that thread, and move into a personal attack? That is a deliberate tactic, targeted at current BK members, who might be wondering what is really going on, and are confused due to the complexity of the issues, and the fact they are in the middle of it.
For example, the idea that Byron Katie is like Mary Poppins on a rocket-bicycle, was written in detail by Michael Katz, who is her agent and co-writer. The specific language patterns he used are detailed here.
["was it Mary Poppins crossed with a Zen master?"] [forum.culteducation.com
[Byron Katie, Mary Poppins, P.L Travers, Gurdjieff The Work] [forum.culteducation.com
That is very revealing information, as it neutralizes what Michael Katz, and Stephen Mitchell try to do to people.
But they CANNOT deal with the hundreds of FACTS in this forum. Its impossible. If they tried, they would be worse off. So what can they do?
You do what is called a Straw-man, Ad-hominem method. That is you set someone up as saying things they did not say or do, then use that as an excuse to deflect away from the facts. They CANNOT deal with the hundreds of facts, so they make deliberate overgeneralizations, in hopes that those who have only read a small part of the posts, and are confused about BK, will follow the short-circuited mental distortion they have suggested.
They know most BK people have ZERO training in hypnotherapy, and how many are going to go and read some books about it, and read the entire thread, in detail? Most people just read a bit, and find it very confusing. Its complex stuff, and it takes some time and effort, to do the research and see how it works, and how it is used. So since they can't get into the specifics, they just try to short-circuit people's mental circuits with an overgeneralization.
By the way, as has been said many times, only a portion of what BK does in total, is related to these conversational hypnotherapy techniques of telling "strange stories". The rest are LGAT techniques, social influence methods, advanced sales methods, tricky contracts, and all the details in the threads. So even if some of the advanced hypnotherapy stuff is hard to understand right away, what about the rest of it? There is more than enough to show the reality of what is going on.
So again, that's why they would want to short-circuit that thinking process.
This is one of the more amusing parts of this. There are literally 500x more references for the FACTs in this forum, than Byron Katie herself gives in ALL her books combined! She gives NOTHING. Has anyone EVER seen Byron Katie give a footnote or reference for ANYTHING? Of course not, she avoids that on purpose, very carefully.
Byron Katie tells the same uncheckable stories over and over, from an uncheckable past. Why doesn't jgf75 expose the facts about the past of Byron Katie? That would be far more interesting. There are hundreds of facts for people to research in this forum.
The stuff written about this forum, is just as false as the rest of it. This forum is not moderated by the posters. Talk about free will and voluntary? Contrary to what the BK people do, these types of forums are about real freedom of will, which comes only after full disclosure, and full information, not from secrecy, PR, covert influence, and deliberate falsehoods. People can trust their OWN thinking processes, and their own critical intelligence, when they do their research.
As far as the hypnotherapy comments, that is when it really goes off the rails. Why? They obviously did not contact actual Ericksonian hypnotherapists, as if they did, where is the analysis?
Its already been proven many times, where BK copied Erickson.
[Byron Katie directly copied the CACTUS metaphor used by Milton Erickson]
They were just trying to use that as a way to short-circuit people's thinking processes, about some very challenging, and complex material. It can take a long time to study and learn how hypnotherapy in the context of group persuasion works.
As said in this thread many many times, Byron Katie is not doing conventional hypnotherapy. She has taken bits and pieces, and put them together in her own style. But her process of telling Strange Stories, and stories within stories, with embedded commands, with metaphorical imagery for the unconscious, is based from the Ericksonian style of waking conversational hypnotherapy, which has been modified and is used in quite a number of LGAT's these days.
The reason they need to try and HIDE this, is that knowledge of it, wrecks the process.
Now that people can see the techniques being used by Michael Katz, and the methods being used by Stephen Mitchell, they will be more suspicious and skeptical.
They might say...oh...Mary Poppins...so you are trying to regress me to feel like a School-mate, and to trust BK even though she is a complete stranger, like you do in your other marketing? Oh..I see...you are trying to make an image in my mind of BK as a magical being from another dimension with supernatural powers, like Mary Poppins?
Once people can see the Tech at work, it BACKFIRES, badly.
[Mary Poppins pre-frame induction] [forum.culteducation.com
Using the image of BK as a high-tech Mary Poppins was an error by Michael Katz, and Stephen Mitchell. Mary Poppins was created by P.L. Travers, who was one of the top people in the Gurdjieff movement. And Gurdjieff's method was called The Work. [forum.culteducation.com
That is a fact. And that ain't no accident. .
So the bottom line is that those who are into BKI for a living, frankly, are not to be trusted at all. Also, many around the edges are totally indocrinated as well.
You have some very clever and skilled people in the BKI Org. They would be the first to embrace the question...is BK a con-woman? They can use the BK process to turn that around very fast on YOU, until you can't tell which way is up.
Each person has to use and trust their own mind, and their own thinking processes, and common sense, and critical intelligence, and spend time looking at the FACTS very carefully.
The Byron Katie system has to be set aside though first. BK made her system to be an internal mental Checkmate, you literally cannot get out of it from inside, when using her system. Its like mental quicksand filling a rabbit-hole, the more you wriggle, the deeper you go into it.
[The Work, in terms of the 4 Questions and a Turnaround, is a clever "gimmick"] [forum.culteducation.com
But you can reach outside the system, and grab those trees beside the quicksand, and lift oneself out of the morass, get the muck cleaned off, and then think about everything as carefully as one can.
But don't let the BKI people throw you back down the rabbit-hole filled with quicksand! The trained BKI people are the worst people on earth to go to with questions, they will just confuse people more, they are experts at inducing confusion. Confusionists.
And one doesn't need to understand every detail of the more advanced parts of the BKI system, just look at what is really going on using everyday common sense, horse-sense, they used to call it. Bullshit detection. Byron Katie couldn't dupe a farmer, they know bullshit is real when they step in it.
One can study the deceptive marketing, the money trail, the abuses of power, study up on LGAT seminars, study sales methods, tricky contracts, etc.
As was stated by a person who went to a recent Byron Katie School...
"Just completed Byron Katie's 9 Day School (March '09). I am disappointed to report that the information on Rick Ross's site is accurate...and, if anything, understated."
The BKI team is very tricky, highly skilled, and very motivated in terms of business and manipulation. So one would be wise to exercise extreme caution.
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever
[Warning about Stephen Mitchell's methods]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2009 11:46AM by The Anticult.