also, it needs repetition.
Only the most senior people in the BKI org, would really know what is going on. Only the most advanced 'sales' people are aware of most of the precise techniques being used.

Most of the other deeply involved people would be almost complete True Believers, who through the tech of Byron Katie, would literally not be able to see the forest for the trees.
They have their heads lost in the Nondual confusion, trying to make sense out of nonsense, or just giving up and Surrendering to BK.
they have no training in these areas, and even begin to shut their critical thinking completely off.
BK is literally using the most powerful techniques that are available, and it can almost completely take over people's minds and life.

For example, BK's own daughter who facilitates, its possible she is not aware of many of the most advanced methods being used...YET.
BK doesn't teach them, she tries to pretend they don't exist. One has to take other advanced trainings in persuasion engineering, to learn how to do it. These are seminars that are for "Training the trainer", they are not for the general public.

Others are blinded by the cash, of course. Others may have an intense emotional loyalty to the "guru" due to past Guru indoctrinations.

But those who are HONEST, even though they can't see the Tech, they can see other things.
Like what? Like the hypocrisy, the dishonesty, the exploitation, the lies, the fabrications, the junk going down behind the scenes.

So even though they may not be able to see everything, they can see SOME of what is going on. And step by step, learn the more advanced techniques. It takes time.

Don't trust or listen to the BKI Confusionists, who just want to turn your thoughts back on you. These folks are literally experts in messing with your mind.

By the way, people don't have to see ALL of the advanced tech, to make a decision to get the hell out of there! The average person is more than capable of telling when someone is manipulating them, and using them, and lying to them.

Contrary to what Byron Katie says, listen to your own internal common sense, and trust your own thinking, and analytical processes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 03:32AM by The Anticult.

i've come here to say, thank you folks for all this info about byron katie.

the nlp info is fascinating. it rings true.

i've read much here and will keep reading. devouring is more like.

i'm grateful to be digging myself out of the madness known as 'the work'.

helps to know i was duped. damn that woman and her cohorts.

keep up the good work folks.

in gratitude,
thiswayout

lastly, if anyone EVER tells you, like the above comments from that other forum, that the "Strange Stories" being told to you by some speaker doing expensive LGAT seminars, or some guru, are just a strange way of thinking...

Please, please, do NOT trust that person.
They are trying to deceive the public.
It is a lie, and its a conscious lie. It has to be said as plain as day, the public is being screwed over, by some very sophisticated and ruthless operators. Many people are doing it these days.

Any proper hypnotherapist, would obviously admit to the Strange Story methods which have been used for decades, and are documented in many books. And point you to some educational books on how its done, so it can be done ethically and in a way that is generative.

but the way its being done, is to take elements from this type of persuasion, and use it on the unaware public. Its not hypnotherapy, is a perversion of elements of if.

Only people who are trying to (pardon my french), only people who are trying to royally fuck you over, are going to lie to you like that.

Some who know the Tech, think it's evil to abuse these techniques on people who don't know how they work.
But there are many people who are doing it, and those people often don't even believe in "evil". Take note.

So when they start telling you little stories, and stories within stories, and then weird and strange stories..watch out...and GET OUT immediately. Interrupt their story, and just walk out.
You are being played.

The literature is out there for anyone to research, but it takes some time and effort.

also, one other last thing.
Just because someone says they are against the claims that Byron Katie makes about treating mental health issues, etc, doesn't mean they are not a senior BKI person, or someone who does the BK work for a living.
Also, the standard method for dealing with critics, is to admit SOME of the criticisms, but deny the most important parts. All they really care is that people keep going to the seminars.

The "brains" at BKI know, you have to IMPLY it can deal with mental health issues, but not say it, and walk that fine line. And even deny it to the media when asked.
So any sane sales and business person does not make those outrageous claims out in the open, as evidenced by the BK website which changed.
Notice their main website now says.."About Katie's teachings, intended to help end suffering."
See how they dialed it back from END SUFFERING - ELIMINATE DEPRESSION to "intended to help end suffering".

They control the website, but when BK is speaking live, she probably starts to believe her own PR at times, and also she knows intuitively that she HAS to make those Big Claims, to bring the people in. So they do that when no one from the outside is looking, like at the live LGAT seminars, etc.

They have gotten themselves in a terrible Double-Bind with Byron Katie.
For BK claims she was enlightened by a telepathic cockroach, and has never read a book, and so does Stephen Mitchell. Its a clever salespitch Story angle, so they thought.
but then they CANNOT explain all of the common LGAT techniques Byron Katie uses, they HAVE to say they don't exist, and try to deny obvious reality.

But other folks trying to promote BK, say she is just your standard LGAT seminar leader, like Werner Erhard.

Well, she can't be both. Someone is lying.
And once you see all the techniques she uses, its clear who is not telling the truth.

and even if the salespeople who are more rational just try to claim she is a standard LGAT seminar leader like Werner Erhard and the Landmark Forum, then what?
Then they are saying she is a fake.
And being like Werner Erhard is no bargain, the guy was one of the worst LGAT abusers on record, which is why he now lives in hiding on a boat.

They are trapped in a double-bind.
The only way out is to create confusion, and more double-binds, by putting out conflicting information.

Quote
The Anticult
This is about the posts being made by jgf75 on the guruphiliac forum. [guruphiliac.lefora.com]

jgf75 is just playing word-games with the Ericksonian Hypnotherapy ideas. jgf75 says he is calling these people involved and ASKING them what they are doing!
LOL! please, call Stephen Mitchell, Stever Robbins, and Byron Katie and ask them "what they are doing".

Anticult, there is another post by Jgf75 that warrants attention. It's very bizarre, it's a rant about you and other "Rick Rossers" and how wrong we are about Byron Katie. A nerve has been touched, it seems.

[[url=http://guruphiliac.lefora.com/2009/03/23/byron-katies-school-for-the-work-march-09/page5/#post8531007]Jgf75 Post on Guruphiliac Forum re the Rick Ross Forum[/url]]

Quoting Jgf75:

Yeah. "The AntiCult" finally reached a new high for me with his post that started: "This Mary Poppins Byron Katie connection, is very interesting." I've decided that he (she?) is actually a performance artist, seeing how far he (she?) can go before even the Rick Ross participants catch on. Think about it. The AntiCult spells out in extreme detail how all these NLP and hypnotic language techniques work (or how he/she claims they work). Then he/she allows few dissenting opinions on the board, and draws all kinds of conclusions by associating two concepts, making up an evil backstory, and repeating it often enough (often with "evidence" that consists of links to his/her earlier threads) until he/she drops the "might" or "could be" and states the suppositions as fact.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to any of the Rick Rossers that:
- RR participants are ex-cult members with a track record of falling for strong, charismatic, manipulative people who don't allow dissenting thought,
- The AntiCult is a strong, manipulative person who doesn't allow dissenting thought,
- and The AntiCult clearly knows a lot about manipulation, hypnosis, and similar tactics (though I have taken the liberty of consulting some professional hypnotists who trained with Erickson's daughter Carol, and they say AntiCult's explanations show evidence he's taken training, and evidence he doesn't understand what he's talking about).

I'll bet AntiCult is laughing his/her head off as he/she twists that entire community around his/her little finger, using exactly the same techniques that he/she is blasting others for using.

People at Guruphiliac have referred to Jgf75's recent posts as "hysteria" and "over the top".

I really appreciate the succinct, no nonsense response to Jgf75's latest post from Beebonnet:

So Jgf have you read janaki's blog?? An insider account of how ms katie does business..she left out the "stuff that would make her look bad" and still managed to convince me rather easily that this was something to stay far far away from. If you are looking for an excuse to feel ok about doing the work, you won't find it here or on rr, you claim to be looking for evidence of malfeasance -dude, if you haven't got it yet, you won't get it. If your income is somehow tied to referring people to bk, then that is a rough position to be in. Your said motives for posting here are not evident in the content of your posts. Looking for information?? OK, if you can't come to a conclusion after all you say you've read, then I don't know if you can be believed. Your getting mighty tedious. No offense.

[[url=http://guruphiliac.lefora.com/2009/03/23/byron-katies-school-for-the-work-march-09/page6/#post8837700]Beebonnet Comment from Guruphiliac Forum[/url]]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 09:34AM by helpme2times.

that jgf75 post was addressed here, and it is full of errors, with fale information about hypnosis, and actually serves to expose their agenda.

[jgf75 picked up on the Mary Poppins image induction, written by Michael Katz]
[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
helpme2times
...there is another post by Jgf75 that warrants attention. It's very bizarre, it's a rant about you and other "Rick Rossers" and how wrong we are about Byron Katie. A nerve has been touched, it seems.

[[url=http://guruphiliac.lefora.com/2009/03/23/byron-katies-school-for-the-work-march-09/page5/#post8531007]Jgf75 Post on Guruphiliac Forum re the Rick Ross Forum[/url]]

yes, the information in this thread about Byron Katie from many different sources is very accurate. The specific effects of the LGAT techniques in her seminars still need more fleshing out too.

And it would help to hear more disclosure from people on the process of how they got DEEPER into the BK system. For example, Byron Katie asks some people she is recruiting in person, to write her detailed information about former gurus, everything they can think of, and then she uses that information when dealing with the person. That SPECIFIC information she gathers is the most powerful, general techniques only have a limited utility.

but her "weird stories" are based on a perversion of aspects of hypnotherapy, that is not an opinion, that is a fact. That is just reality.

The Work system is really terribly deceptive and clever, they start you out with a so-called "free" question process, and the next thing you know you are up to your neck in quicksand, trapped in the madness of the Byron Katie system, which is literally designed to be LIFE-LONG. That is also a fact, its in the text.

Also, many of the same techniques and methods, apply to various other new agey gurus and anti-guru's who do many of the same tactics. so it goes far beyond Byron Katie.
They might use different stories, different philosophies, and different presentations, but the core methods and objectives remain quite similar, even if not as extreme, or god forbid, even worse.

Quote
thiswayout
i've come here to say, thank you folks for all this info about byron katie.

the nlp info is fascinating. it rings true.

i've read much here and will keep reading. devouring is more like.

i'm grateful to be digging myself out of the madness known as 'the work'.

helps to know i was duped. damn that woman and her cohorts.

keep up the good work folks.

in gratitude,
thiswayout

Hm.
Well so far the Anticult has not charged for us to go to a seminar to get his/her wisdom, (s)he has not promised to help alleviate suffering, and (s)he hasn't required me to give him/her my most valued possession to show how well I'm doing ...

jgf 75 suggested that "when participants walk into an intense workshop, of any sort there's a certain degree to which I believe they must be responsible for knowing they can handle it"

Generally in therapy, I believe that responsibility lies more on the practitioner, than the client. And I believe a therapist has to make sure the client is aware that the therapy may or may not help the client; it may make things better,and it may make things worse.

And therapists aren't allowed to accept gifts from their clients, or free labor.

How can you be 'responsible' if you are NOT TOLD what goes on in the worshop or 9 day event?

One thing former participants expressed concerns about was, precisely the secrecy.

Once again, and yet again, the responsiblity is shifted from the powerholder, who with holds information about what will transpire during the event, onto the shoulders of the
subject, who signs away his or her right (as a citizen!)to sue or mediate in case harm is incurred.

Lack of accountability for the organizer/powerholder of the event, accountability shifted onto the heads of the subjects who are not informed of the conditions ahead of time.

No professional ever structures the relationship this way--ever. You are informed of the procedure and the potential risks and given sets of informed consent documents to read and sign.

RX medication comes with package inserts.

Sheesh.

In these New Wage LGATs, you are a subject, but without the protections afforded by the Americal Psychological Associations ethical guidelines for academic research.

The Anticult as performance artist--?

This person communicates just using typed out text. Performance artists do it live.

BK's stuff fits the performance artist label very much more accurately than what The Anticult is doing, which is merely via typing.

Also, The Anticult doesnt have a trade marked method that is being touted all over as ane equivalent to Buddhism (not true) nor to cognitive behavioral therapy (not true) , and isnt sending besotted and adoring disciples to pimp him or her to troubled friends.

Speaking for myself:

The Anticult has never gazed into my eyes.

He or her face is not being put all over cyberspace, nor in magazine ads nor on the dust covers of books.

Ive never run errands for TAC the way Janaki describes, or have I ever given TAC a foot massage.

'My Relationship With Katie'

[janakisstory.wordpress.com]

Nor have I ever done for The Anticult, what Janaki describes as 'Katie Care'.

'Resignation'

[janakisstory.wordpress.com]