Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 20, 2009 05:53AM

The ohter day I recieved following email. It is four years ago I attended The School. I guess I forgot to make a "counter-waiver", not to abuse my email address ;-)

Dear friends and family,

We are thrilled to invite you to our new blog, A Fearless Planet, where you can read about the adventures of four Certified Facilitators of The Work of Byron Katie coming together to bring The Work to every corner of the globe—including your living room. The blog is where we’ll be announcing events, from retreats to workshops to teleclasses, as well as offering private facilitation to individuals, couples, and groups. It’s also where we’ll be letting you know our thoughts about The Work, and sharing the stories of our lives. And it’s where we hope to hear from you.

So click on this link, [] , bookmark the Homepage, and make it a habit to stay in touch. Let us know what you think of our articles, what your own recent experiences of The Work have been, what sort of teleclasses you’d like us to develop, and generally how we can serve you in this peace project. We want this adventure to be as interactive as possible: the four of us and you.

Note that there are two events coming up:

“Rediscovering Gratitude” a 7-day retreat in southern Portugal, from February 20-27th

“A Weekend of The Work of Byron Katie” a workshop in Shannon, Ireland, from April 25-26.

Both events are BKI-approved for credit if you are a candidate in the Institute for The Work’s Certification Program.

Click here, [] , and come join the fun.

In love and gratitude,

Charlotte, Nina, Ashik, and Joerg
The Fearless Planet Team

Charlotte Price, Nina Lynch, Ashik Lynch and Joerg Hermann
Certified Facilitators of The Work of Byron Katie

“Question your mind...change the world” -- Byron Katie

PS. A Fearless Planet is anti-spam. We will not share your information with third parties. If you know you do not want to receive further email announcements from us, please hit Reply and let us know. No hard feelings.

Notice the instructions to bookmark the page, and stay in touch. Who teach them stuff like that?! My guess is, that it must be the nuts cockroach, Byron Katie

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2009 06:02AM by Garden of Even.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: February 21, 2009 03:26AM

Since spam or unsolicited email is one thing that seems to be monitored and taken seriously, in a legal sense, I think unsubscribing to unwanted emails and notifications from sources that still have one's address would be prudent. Heck, if there's 'no hard feelings', I'd say good deal! Bye, bye. I've done it and it works, in cases like this, where you know the source. Most email programs keep a copy of your 'sent' mail anyway, and if a party doesn't abide by your wishes they can literally be in trouble, because you have proof that you unsubscribed.

I'm still hoping that, now that the disruption is gone from this thread (at least for the time being), someone will come forward with first-hand knowledge or even written examples of where the Katie bunch had something to say about valuables, such as rings, etc. This was the last thing mentioned when the diversion happened. A while back, someone said it might be advisable to notice at what moment on the thread (and on what subject specifically) any disruption occurs. I intend to keep doing just that. My guess is, that the 'valuables' issue must be a sore spot in the overall BKI strategy or perhaps even an Achilles heel! I agree with posters who think there are legal issues here, and that eventually someone is going to run with it. Wouldn't THAT be sweet.


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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Pilot ()
Date: February 21, 2009 05:32AM


I just found this forum after reading the Guruphiliac Byron Katie thread! All I can say is WOW, you guys have done your homework!! Excellent information on here.

I looked into BK because I have a friend that is into her and it kind of started to irritate me, the whole slavish devotion thing. My litmus test for any path is fairly simple:

1 does it cost money?
2 Does it induce guilt?
3 Does it suggest you bring others into the fold?

One out of 3 might be ok, but it looks like BKI hit the trifecta. My friend became seriously tedious and controlling with the work-he even mentioned something once about if he had enough $$ he would insist all his friends go to the school, and he would pay for it. UGH, That really got to me, they somehow destroy free will and any respect you might have for the free will of others. I never liked the work, thought it was superficial and nothing but trickery, but he claimed that it helped him. Then he would engage the work while having a disagreement, anytime someone was behaving in a way that made him uncomfortable, he would "do the work" on them, without their knowledge. Oh but for their own good of course.

How on earth could this ever be considered ok? I guess when you have a guru who is as nutty as BK, you can get away with anything. I am so glad that ex BKers spoke up here, it was very educational and will hopefully help anyone who thinks they need to follow someone else. A lot of these gurus say"go within"-and then ask you to shell out to them. I don't have the capacity to follow much, I like "take what you want and leave the rest. "

The spiritual path is not one that ends and you "get it" and you can then stop growing and learning. If they say they can end suffering, well, BS!! Choose free will. It may not be easy but at least it's yours.

Best to all

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 21, 2009 06:39AM

A tip about unsubscribing...

Be careful and get some advice from a computer expert.

Sometimes your wishes to unsubscribe are respected. Other times it can have the opposite effect.

A computer teacher at school told us that some sites work arrange matters in such a way that if you try to unsubscribe, it signals that you're a potentially active contact.

You get sent even more stuff.

Going to the Tools or Rules section of your E-mail and arranging to have messages blocked might work better. Or your ISP may have some way to adjust your spam filter.

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Byron Katie, Certified Facilitators
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 21, 2009 09:16AM

Interesting information about...

The Fearless Planet Team, Charlotte Price, Nina Lynch, Ashik Lynch and Joerg Hermann

Where did they get the Byron Katie client email addresses?
They say they are "Certified Facilitators of The Work of Byron Katie".
So this means they market themselves as a type of franchisee, of BKI. They probably had to buy a Target email list from BKI, or a related organization. Once a person gets on any of these new wage email lists as someone who has BOUGHT SOMETHING, then you go on the "special list" for "special people" who "spend money".
Once a email address gets on one of these BUYER lists, it gets resold, over and over.

but notice the overt word trickery in that Byron Katie spam email.

They say they are "Certified Facilitators" of Byron Katie, as if that really means something, as it sounds legit. That is deceptive word trickery.
Check the disclaimers of these so-called "certified" facilitators. Its simply a type of marketing logo, and means nothing in actuality.


Carol Skolnick is listed as a Certified Facilitator, yet she completely disclaims any endorsement of Byron Katie.
Disclaimer of Endorsement. Carol L. Skolnick

Notice how tricky they make the wording. []
Notice how BKI uses the word "certified" as it sounds legit, but in fact how they use it means nothing.
They make it sound like you are going to be somehow "certified" in the general sense of that term, as its used in medical and psychological training. But if you look at the disclaimers they have to post, like above, that says the exact opposite.
Sound familiar?
Advertising and marketing that says one thing, while contracts that literally say the exact opposite?

Does anyone have the text to the agreement contract that "Certified Facilitators" of Byron Katie have to sign? That is where the reality will be spelled out in black in white. Can anyone post that, or get it?

Byron Katie has this massive web of "levels" that lure people into getting their entire life involved with her, and literally spending every dime they have, and can borrow. Literally, that is not an exaggeration.

"Facilitator Certification consists of 100 days (800 hours) of immersion in The Work."

Just look at that, 800 hours.
And they ask for a 2-4 year commitment, to start.
And guess what, that is not the end, that is just the beginning.
You have to RENEW every 3 years.

In the LGAT franchise business, (which is what this is), these types of "franchisees" or coaches, or facilitators are seen as VERY high-end customers. Many will ultimately spend hundreds of thousands of dollars if they can access that kind of money, as some of them have family money, etc. Otherwise they generally just remortgage the house, etc. This basic financial structure has been used for decades.

Of course some of the more entrepreneurial facilitators can make some money, but most of it always goes back to the mothership, through fees, schemes, courses, dues, donations, etc. By this point, the Guru has almost total control of the subject, until the relationship breaks down, which can take many years.

Also notice the Byron Katie's daughter Roxann Burroughs is a facilitator, so it appears they have every intent in passing the family corporation into the next generation.

But it is essential to have a look at the actual text of the agreement for the so-called "Certified Facilitators" of The Work. The text will probably say something along the lines that "certified" means "no connection whatesoever" but the ability to post that little advertising logo! It will end up meaning the opposite of the common language usage of that term, due to how they use it "technically". The facilitator probably has to pay a large fee to post that "certified" logo for a period, and it can be revoked at any time, for any reason. One assumes that BKI will hold all the cards, as usual, and the facilitator will hold no cards, just like a customer of the seminar.

But lets try to get the actual text to the Certified Facilitator agreement, to see what it says, as the fine-print in these contracts can be very tricky. Its good research in general, as EVERY SINGLE GROUP like this has a similar structure, they all do it, as it makes a fortune.
Even here, the basic intro fee is in the THOUSANDS, and notice they leave open some fees as "cost varies" They are very clever salespeople. And notice, you have to pay thousands to be EVALUATED by Byron Katie.

Tuition for 7-day Certification Evaluation Workshop with Byron Katie (meals and lodging not included) $ 1,900.00 + Certification Program enrollment fee $ 650.00

They would probably keep the facilitator contract hidden until you register, but one assumes they would have to release it on request. There is an email to ask questions here.
Questions regarding certification?

After all, Carol Skolnick advertises and is listed as a Certified Facilitator, but read the fine-print in the Disclaimer of Endorsement. Its says they have nothing to do with eachother.

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Re: Byron Katie, 100-Day Facilitator Certification Program
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 21, 2009 09:46AM

dear lord, it even gets worse.
There are basic info pages here and there about the Byron Katie 100-Day Facilitator Certification Program. (BKI Certification Program).

Anyone who has been "certified" has gone through a multi-year process of total immersion and indocrination, from countless different angles, hundreds of hours, and countless thousands of dollars. You are forced to attend this massive list of Byron Katie events.

Then here is the kicker. After you have attended all this stuff for years and have spent countless thousands, then you have to attend a final 7 days "training", which also costs thousands. Byron Katie here holds the ultimate power over you and your livelihood, as she can approve or reject you, at her whim. If you are rejected, then she MAY allow you to start all over! (wink wink).

What a grotesque power imbalance. Getting "certified" is 100% up to pleasing Katie. Of course, some will get "rejected" and then encouraged to start over again, if they have deep pockets.
One assumes for the few who are "approved by Katie" that their status can be revoked at any time.
There is no objective criteria, no appeals board, no nothing.

Do you see the terrible double-bind people are put in by this process? They spend a fortune for years, and then the only way they can hope to make some money back, is to get approved by Katie. The only way to get approved by Katie, is doing exactly what Katie wants you to do, on her whim. If you ever stop doing exactly what she wants you to do, you are pulled off the list.
If you ever speak up, or criticize anything she doesn't like, you are toast.
And you have your head on the block every 3 years.
This is supreme power over a person's life, and their livelihood, controlled on a whim. Its like living on the knife-edge, in the court of favor of a Queen in the middle ages.

Please, don't ever put yourself in this completely powerless position with any of these groups. They are ruthless exploiters of human vulnerability.

Certification is neither automatic nor guaranteed...
Byron Katie will make the final determination on all official certifications upon your successful completion of all program requirements. Certification is renewable every three years.
"Certification Training with Katie – 7 days
Each year one or more seven-day certification trainings will be held for those who have completed all the above requirements and who feel ready for this training. It will be limited to forty people.

Note: Certification by Katie is not guaranteed. Those who are not certified after their seven-day training may have the opportunity to continue in the program.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 09:51AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie, Stephen Mitchell, The Husband Story
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 21, 2009 11:38AM

BK is using marriage as a metaphor, in a blog entry, The Husband Story.

The thing to remember, is everything that BK writes is a "Story", it always has other layers of meaning worked into it, other than the obvious.
On the surface, it looks like she is telling a story about her husband, but that is not what its really about.

What is really about is YOUR relationship to Byron Katie.
This is a message to her close followers. For example, the phrase...

"The sorriest day of my life was when I married you"

This is addressed to the (secret and private) bitter feelings many of her closest people have towards her, due to her exploitative behavior. She simply flips it back on them, their negative feelings toward Byron Katie are not due to her poor behavior, its their OWN nightmare in their own sad dream. (according to BK).
She says its all a projection of your mind. (solipsism).

The conclusion is that her followers should not expect someone they "love" to even love them or behave appropriately!
You see, it has nothing to do with "marriage", except for her core believers "marriage" to Byron Katie in their psyche. She is setting people up to try and make themselves feel ok about being in a one-way exploitative relationship with Byron Katie.

Maybe there is trouble brewing in some areas of the Byron Katie camp. Her solution is simple. If you find fault with Byron Katie, the fault is with YOU, not her.

Of course, in reality, this is false. Healthy people need to exercise good judgement and boundaries, and if someone is exploiting you, you dump them. You don't tolerate being exploited. You don't tolerate your "husband" loving whoever he wants!! Now that's "insane".

Of course, this also has the level of meaning that BK and Hubby might be in an "open relationship" as she has hinted before she would not mind if he had an affair, if she approved of it. So maybe they are Swingers...whoop-dee-doo...
So again, there are several levels it works on.

But the bottom line is...if you are in a one-way relationship with Katie, and you start to feel used, abused, and exploited by the BKI money-machine and one-sided contracts and endless money-grubbing, and you get angry...that's all YOUR fault, not hers.
Her bad behavior only exists in YOUR dumb mind, according to her. (we have seen people who believe this right in this forum).

Of course, this is nonsense. There is a basic objective reality, that does exist. Feeling healthy anger is good when your boundaries are being violated, you get angry when someone is trying to SCAM you, and that is very healthy.

That method is just a way for an exploiter to try and emotionally train and passify their followers to tolerate the exploitation.

It could be the delusional Katie-trance is breaking up in her group, as there are almost ZERO comments by followers in her blog, which is very telling. Usually this is where people will post with their real names to try and get some attention.

This type of message is meant to reinforce her technique of creating an endless cycle self-blame for her closest followers. No matter how atrocious her behavior is, if you get upset, its YOUR fault.

Again, that is nonense, of course. Its healthy to get upset and draw a line in the sand, when someone violates your boundaries and tries to hurt and exploit you. Even little dogs know that, unless of course they are abused puppies, that is. Only abused dogs will tolerate abuse from their abusive Masters.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 21, 2009 07:05PM

I don't think that the BKI sore spot lies in the "valuables issue". They might have redesigned that exercise. ?

I think the sore spot lies in building the organization bigger and bigger, and in Katie herself.

I often told my "school-mates" that The Work is nothing witout Byron Katie, which ofcouse was followed with a "is it true", and a long lecture of how that was not true!

The sore spot has to be in BK behind her denial of reality. I think it is very likely that she had stroke followed by a psychotic brake through. I am convinced that there is a logical explaination to her behavior. I think that she is a very sick lady that no one ever sets limits to. And I think that is exactly what she needs, limits. No one near her questions her motives. Even, I had no problem with her making so much money. It didnt upset me at all.

To me the attraction was her. However, I was surprised to find out that I didnt like her, and felt uncomfortable when she was near me. But I was still facinated.

I think it is a good thing, to keep looking for weak spots in what she is doing, and to help people stay away from The School.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 21, 2009 10:24PM

Anticult wrote:


They say they are "Certified Facilitators" of Byron Katie...

We need to ask an attorney whether, in the eyes of the law, there is a difference between 'licensed' vs 'certified'.

Why say facilitators are 'certified"?

Why not say the facilitators are 'licensed'?

I am not aware that licensed professionals have to fret about their own licenses this way.

So long as you keep up with your continuing education classes, carry your malpractice insurance, and no one complains to the medical society or licensing board about your work, you're fine.

My mother's internist voluntarily re-took the board exams, after being in practice for 20 years. No one required him to do it. No one told him his license to practice was due for 're-certification'.

Dr X voluntarily re-took the board exams for his speciality, on his own initiative.

So you dont hear MDs, attorneys, dentists or therapists saying, 'Oh gee I cant attend your party--I have to study tonight because I'm facing my three year due date for re-certification.'

You dont hear 'em talking about that.

You hear them talking about taking Continuing Education classes to keep their licenses active.

**And theyre not required to take classes from just one individual look to just one individual to decide whether they can be 're-certified'.

(note:to keep her license up to date a friend who is an LCSW took a 2 month long class on countertransferance issues at a local center for psychoanalysis. Countertransferance is when the person in the powerholder/healer role projects his or her unconscious material onto the client.

A real therapist makes sure he or she can recognize when this is going on. Its not all a matter of a client projecting his or her stuff onto the healer. Healers project thier own stuff unto clients--unless the healers make very sure to become conscious and remain conscious in relation to thier own inner drama.

THat is what BK and other types neglect--the reality of countertransferance--being in a healing role, going unconscious and projecting personal stuff onto one's customers or clients. It isnt just a bunch of deluded clients projecting their stuff onto the healer.

It literally goes both ways and the person in the powerholder role, collecting the MONEY has a greater share of the responsiblity in making sure to keep things conscious.

And that means going through a training analysis.

And regarding the Husband story:


Quoted from A Cry in the Desert:


In her first forty-three years, she had known wealth and power, lost and regained more than once, but she was bitter and self-destructive, and her family watched helplessly as she raged against life and her own being.
Her second husband, Paul, suffered four heart attacks as he struggled to keep the family together and look after his wife, who clung to him in her despair and yet could offer him nothing but further distress.

The path was far from easy. Sometimes she felt steeped in a kind of agony that she had never known before.

Paul was always there, supporting her, holding her.


According to the above account, BK's ex husband Paul appears to have been crucial in caring for his wife during her ordeal.

Awakening self lacks balance unless accompanied by awakening gratitude and a stable sense of loyalty.

They say that Ramana Maharshi grew ill a number of times when living in his cave in Arunchala, South India. He was cared for and watched over by a man in the neighborhood who brought him food.

Ramana Maharshi is famous today and his tomb is much visited a pilgrimage site.

But we can hope that someone has taken care to honor the memory of and bring an extra flower garland and stick of incense for the memory of the householder who fed Maharshi in his cave during the days when Ramana was young and obscure.

In honor of the anonymous, never famous, care providers who are lost in the fame of those who could not have survived without them, here are a few lines from a poem Samuel Johnson wrote in honor of his family doctor Robert Levet MD:



On the Death of Dr. Robert Levet

Condemned to Hope’s delusive mine,
As on we toil from day to day,
By sudden blasts, or slow decline,
Our social comforts drop away.

Well tried through many a varying year,
See Levet to the grave descend;
Officious*, innocent, sincere,
Of every friendless name the friend.

(*Old-fashioned usage--means 'diligent')

When fainting Nature called for aid,
And hovering Death prepared the blow,
His vigorous remedy displayed
The power of art without the show.

In Misery’s darkest cavern known,
His useful care was ever nigh,
Where hopeless Anguish poured his groan,
And lonely Want retired to die.

No summons mocked by chill delay,
No petty gain disdained by pride,
The modest wants of every day
The toil of every day supplied.

His virtues walked their narrow round,
Nor made a pause, nor left a void;
And sure the Eternal Master found
The single talent* well employed.

(Dr Johnson refers to the Parable of the Servants each given a share of the household wealth to safeguard in the absence of their chief.(in the form of 'talents' an ancient monetary unit. 'Talent' later came to mean 'abilities or aptitude'. )

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 10:42PM by corboy.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: February 21, 2009 10:25PM

As I continue to follow this thread, I am amazed at how sickening and diabolical this whole organization of Byron Katie's is turning out to be. Fortunately for me, I found this thread about 30 or so pages ago and it saved me untold money, aggravation and probably heartache. It's heartening to see folks like Pilot venture in to this thread with gems such as the three criteria for 'paths', that was offered. That was some great stuff and I intend to add it to my Baloney Detector Kit. There is more information coming through in this forum every day, and it's a very good thing. This world is certainly Demon Haunted and polluted with newage ideas, but it presently seems there is now quite a bit of backlash that is very accessible on the Internet. Thank goodness. (and in this particular case, Rick Ross)

I'd say corboy is probably right about being very careful with unsubscribing to email lists; I had thought to post that caveat about unsubscribing actually putting one on a bigger list, but instead only added my comment "from sources you know". Probably many of us, in our trusting moments, actually 'agreed' to receive email from "_____ and their affiliates" and got on the first of the ever growing email lists of people who spend money. The selling of email addresses is big business. So, maybe the most prudent thing for some of us to do, is to filter the emails and quietly delete them. Eventually, they go away, in my experience. (p.s. 'blocking' and "reporting as spam' are two ways that can also inform the sender that your email address is active, depending on your email server. Also, if your email program asks if you wish to confirm receipt of an email, it might be wise to always say 'no')


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 10:36PM by quackdave.

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