Byron Katie. Certified Facilitators, LGAT techniques,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 22, 2009 01:45AM

Being licensed, and being "certified" in this sense, are not the same.
For example, if a person is licensed, then they are regulated. To sell hot-dogs, you have to have a license from the local authority.
Or if a person is a registered psychologist, for example, they are also regulated by that body of experts.

"Certified" in this sense, means nothing. Its like buying an unaccredited fake "degree" off the internet.
Anyone could set up a group, and then "certify" people. All they are doing is selling that person the right to use a marketing logo, and get some referrals from a list.
But of course, they use the word certified, as it sounds good.

Anyone could set up a "coaching" business, and then certify people if they pay the fee. So it doesn't mean anything.
Its not like someone getting "state certified" to be a plumber.

So if someone is "certified" by BK, that just means her company allows them to post that logo, and put their name on the referral list. That's it. Branding and referrals.

Also, its interesting about The Work being nothing without BK. My view is The Work is not what it seems, that the so-called 4 Questions are basically a fig-leaf, or trojan, or the tip of the iceberg.
But you can see that her daughter Roxann Burroughs is also doing this for a living []
And some other family members of hers are involved, so BKI could go on for many years.

From the perspective of someone looking at the techniques being used, Byron Katie is actually a very clever person. Some of the "weird" stuff that she does, is related to Ericksonian Hypnotherapy, as that is a way to get into the unconscious, and to create confusion. As shown before, there are many people involved with Byron Katie who are actual hypnotherapists, as they see what she is doing.
She is basically doing a form of hypnotherapy, without telling people that is what is happening.
Many hypnotherapists have "triggers" which they use in their therapy, and some of them are deliberately "strange" to get into the dream world area of the psyche, like in dreams.

She deliberately creates an "attraction" for those people who are suggestible to her methods. Its very difficult to see when people are inside it, but its easy for the trained eye to see it from the outside. Its a combination of techniques.

One problem with the money though, in these LGAT's, is they often use their powerful techniques to take money from people who don't have it. They get people over-excited, and they sign large contracts, and they can't get out of them. Many people lose their homes in various schemes, that is very common for those who get sucked in the deepest.

Now of course, as mentioned, these tools are being abused terribly, that is where the sickness comes in. That also gets into the question of how these types of new age Gurus can exploit people so ruthlessly. That often is a form of narcissism run amok.
Also, power corrupts, so as they get more powerful, then as mentioned, no one can stop them in the group. As if you did tell the Guru off, then you are out.

Its amazing that quite a few people on the internet seem to believe that her writing, like on her blog and in her books, is some type of profound spiritual method. When in reality, its a series of common linguistic persuasion techniques that have been used for a couple of decades. "Creating confusion" is often how hypnotherapy begins, and that is a large part of what BK does. Mixed in with that are all kinds of mind-fuck techniques, to try and loosen people's grasp on their reality, and shift it to her reality.

But granted, it can take a long time to see what is going on. The best way is to take several steps back, and study the techniques as if you were the seminar leader. Anyone who has attended more than 5-10 BK live events will start to see the pattern, its the same with any LGAT.

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Re: Byron Katie. Certified Facilitators, LGAT techniques,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 22, 2009 02:02AM

also, another good way to learn how it all works, is to study so-called Advanced Persuasion Techniques.
There are some books here and there about this subject, most of them awful, but some good ones.
but the problem is, in every case, the people doing those books are also doing it TO YOU at the same time, to sell you their own LGAT's and coaching systems!!
So its very tricky.

The book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, by Dr Robert Cialdini is a good start.

There is no way BK can be actually crazy and pull-off those techniques she uses, more like crazy like a fox. But there is pathology there, of course. Even her own daughter Roxann says..."My mother was crazy, and I was crazy", then she goes into the BK official story.

Now its most likley that many people involved with The Work cannot see the meta-level processes at work, as that takes some training and careful objective thought.
But they can certainly see the hypocrisy and manipulation.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:47PM

Just some thoughts..

How often, in your language do you use the word SUFFERING about internal issues, other than depression?

Also BK often mentions WAR. How common is it to use war about internal issues?

I think it is part of her strategy to internalize, external expressions?

I dont know if it makes any sense? It could be I think about it, because english is not my first language

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 22, 2009 06:33PM

Anticult already gave a good answer.

However, in short, lisensed/authorized just means that you can be prosecuted by law.

I know this, because I am a lisenced nurse.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:30AM

Just wanted to add a link to a smaller thread that's worth incorporating into this larger one:

Byron Katie has a Gig at a Hospital Near Boston


Oh, and here are todays gold prices.

Gold Bullion 990.00 US dollars an ounce


(This is not investment advice. Information is given for educational purposes, so that people will know what their bling is worth.)

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Byron Katie, viral marketing, How To Lose Friends And Irritate People
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 24, 2009 05:20AM

ok, so we have examined many of the Byron Katie psychological persuasion techniques.

Now here is one of their many marketing and sales techniques.
BKI is doing many marketing methods that are used in the "coaching" industry, and many cultish groups use this exact same method.
For example, they are taking current Byron Katie members, and getting them to "Move The Work" to their family and friends. (you won't have any friends left once you start pushing your nutty cultish group on them!)
So you Target and lure a "friend" in, and then they bribe you with another month of free BK indocrination and data-mining! Sweet deal.

Not only that, when you enter your friends email into the BKI system, then those folks will get BKI spam forever, and maybe even get their email sold to boot.

If you bring BKI 12 new customers, then you get a full year of indocrination for free.

So they are using the oldest SALES method in the book, personal referrals. They are exploiting your personal contacts, for their business.
And then your friends get spam from BKI for the rest of their life.

Also of course, this shows how The Work is designed as a sales-system, to lure people in step by step. They will be able to take someone who knows nothing about BK, like a family member, and lure them in one-step at a time.
Vile viral marketing.

How To Lose Friends And Irritate People.

(marketing email excerpt for educational research purposes)

Dear _________
We are very excited to launch our new “Invite-a-Friend” program.

Being a member of The Work on The Web has its rewards – like getting
extra services just for spreading The Work® to your friends and family.

In fact, every time you refer a friend who joins the family, you'll both get
one month free membership in the program.

Simply share your experience with The Work on The Web with your friend
and family and prepare to reap the benefits. It’s easy to Invite! It's easier
than sending an e-mail, and requires no extra effort from you.

You can get up to one year free when you refer twelve friends.
Each extra month you gain from this program will be added to your membership.

Click here to Invite a friend.

Our support team will be happy to assist you and answer any questions
regarding the “Invite-a-Friend” program.

Best regards,
The Coaching Interactive Team

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 24, 2009 05:52AM

I think that there was a Frank Zappa lyric, earlier in this thread..
Should I choose one in relation to Byron Katie, it would be this one;

I HAVE BEEN IN YOU -Frank Zappa (vocal Byron Katie)

I have been in you, baby
And you
Have been in me
And we
Have be
So intimately
And it sure was fine

I have been in you, baby
And you
Have been in me
And so you see
Have be so together
I thought that we would never
Return from forever
Return from forever
Return from forever...

Have been in me
And understandably
I have been in 'n' outa you
An' everywhere
You want me to
Yes, you know it's true

And while
I was inside
I mighta been
And that is maybe
Why you cried
I don't know
Maybe so,
But what's the difference now?

I have been in you, baby
You have been in me
Aw' little girl, there ain't no time
To wash yer stinky hand
Go 'head 'n' roll over
I'm goin' in you again
In you again
In you again
In you again...

I'm goin' in you again-ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!

I'm going in you again, baby
'n' can go in me too,
That's true
I'm goin' in you again, baby
'n' later when we get through
I'm goin' in you again - ahh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 24, 2009 06:30PM

The other day I talked to the friend, whom I went to a weekend-BK-seminar with 5 years ago. (Before The School).

I told her about this forum, and that I am now officially not supporting BK anymore. She was really surprised to hear what is being said here about BK. For her, she just felt that it was not working, and making her feel bad. So, she stopped using The Work long ago. She only went to that seminar and never joined The School.

Hopefully there a many people like my friend, who never takes it further than a weekend seminar. Because they trust their instinct.

I am really concerned about the many coach/facilitators popping up (already several in my country). I am sure they will encourage clients to join The School(or their own homemade school), and this worries me.

If anyone consider to go to The School, please think twice!! It is a waste of time and money!!!!!!!! Also it might hurt you!!! All the reasons not to go is in this thread, so please read this thread before you sign up.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 24, 2009 11:01PM

Thought Experiment

Friends never make real friends sign the kinds of form whose text, from a post by Garden of Even is quoted below.

What would you feel like if a FRIEND, a Girl Pal, or some person you're dating and getting serious about were to romance you, get your hopes up, and then, in a cafe, then push this across the table at you and say, 'You have to sign this if you want to get to know me better.'

How many lovers or girlpals make a the relationship conditional on your signing away your right as a US citizen to seek damages through litigation or mediation in the event that you consider that you have incurred harm?

And where the powerholder not only evades accountability, but foists accountability onto the subject, so that its the subjects bummer if anything goes wrong, but if anything goes well, all the credit goes to the powerholder?

And contrary to what bluesky contended, no one here on this board is empowering BK.

BK is already empowered by getting people to sign all this stuff. Its a power imbalance and worse, one cant even discuss the imbalance consciously.

(see text of form as listed on February 14th)



I want to share something, that Byron Katie repeated many times at the School.

-She tells something great about The Work, and in the next sentence she says "-and its not for everyone (refering to The Work)"!

Every time I picked up on that, and felt it was directed to me. I felt that all the other students "got it" and I didnt. And ofcourse I desperately wanted to "get it". I guess that I not was the only one feeling that way..

P.S I have emailed RickRoss with "release of liability" attached in a Word document. I was not able to attach it here. So now it is up to a moderator to post it (if it is possible to do it that way?)

or maybe I could try copy and paste...



I desire to participate in The School for The Work with Byron Katie (”The School”) for the session to be held xx date, 2005 through and including xx date, 2005, at theCrown Plaza Hotel in Los Angeles, California (“The Facilities”). My participation is voluntary. I acknowledge that I am not obligated to participate in any activity, exercise, event or outing. I acknowledge that my participation in the outings is not required to receive a diploma. If I do not wish to participate, I will advise The School. I acknowledge that the outings of The School may include transportation and that I may be a passenger in the vehicle of another or I may use my vehicle for transporting myself, other participants, and staff of The School.

The School is an educational program. It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy, or any health program, regardless of what you may have heard from anyone. We specifically advise you that Byron Katie is not a healthcare professional and does not supply healthcare professionals on the staff of the School.

As a material of inducement of my participation at The School, I hereby fully and completely waive and release Byron Katie International, Inc. (“BKI Inc.”) and the Facilities, and each of them, and their respective representatives, directors, officers, and employees from any and all actions, claims, demands, damages and liability for personal injuries or damages to property, which has resulted or may hereinafter result, arising, directly or indirectly, from my participation at The School or my presence at the Facilities including any emotional consequences. I hereby also agree that I and any all other legal representatives of mine, including my assignees and heirs, will not make a claim against or sue BKI Inc., the Facilities, or their respective representatives, directors, officers, and employees for any injury or damage resulting or arising, directly or indirectly, from my participation at The School.

I acknowledge that I am voluntarily assuming all risks associated with my participation at The School and voluntarily agree to accept any and all risks of injury or death and verify this statement by placing my initials below:



I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School do not and will not maintain medical insurance coverage should I sustain any illness or injury during my participation at The School. I represent that either I will maintain my own medical insurance policy or that I will bear all costs and expenses associated with any illness or injury which I may sustain during my participation at The School and I release BKI Inc. from any liability therefore.

I understand that if I am on medication, The School requires that I continue to take my medication during The School in accordance with my doctor’s orders. In the event of an emergency, I hereby give consent to medical treatment including contacting emergency medical personnel and facilities.

I, the undersigned registrant for The School, understand that I am engaging in a course, which may involve physical, emotional and psychological activity and that in cases of such activity there is always a risk involved. I understand that in a group workshop setting, the instructor(s) are not responsible for monitoring physical, emotional and psychological limits, or the limits of other participants, and that I am therefore responsible for assessing the risk any individual or group activity poses to me, and choosing a safe course of action for myself. I agree to completely assume the risk and responsibility for any injuries or damages suffered by me arising out of my participation in The School.


page 2.

I understand that the materials for The School contain copyrighted works, trademarks, and other intellectual property. All rights are reserved. The materials for The School, or any portion thereof, may not be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior written consent of Byron Katie or Byron Katie Inc. Notwithstanding the above, I understand that I may make copies of these materials for my personal use only, provided that I must include the statement “Copyright 2005 Byron Katie Inc.” on each portion copied.


I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School may make photographs and/or audio and video recordings of the sessions of The School in which I may participate. I hereby irrevocably consent to the reproduction of my likeness and/or voice in any such photographs and/or video recordings. I grant in perpetuity an release to BKI Inc. and Byron Katie Inc. the exclusive and royalty-free rights to record, produce, distribute, sell, license to others, and to otherwise use or exploit any of such photographs and audio or video recordings, including my likeness and voice, taken of me or in which I may be included, for all purposes, including in connection with conversations, interviews, performances, speeches, and/or presentations at The School. If I do not wish to be recorded or photographed, it shall be my responsibility to advise the audio/video crew or the photographer, respectively, and they will make reasonable efforts to exclude me from any photographs and/or audio and video recordings.


I understand that no refunds will be granted. If you leave during the first day of School, your money less the cost of room and board will be applied to another School to be taken within one year. If you leave the school anytime after the first full day, no refund will be granted.

I have read, understood, and agree to this Agreement.


Printed name:____________________________________ Date:_______________


Diploma Please PRINT clearly and legibly your name exactly as you would like it to appear on your diploma.

Printed name:_________________________________________________________



page 3.
Day month xx through day, month xx, 2005 at the Crown Plaza Hotel, Los Angeles

PARTICIPANTS NAME:____________________________________________________________________
First Last

I would like The school to be aware of the following medical an mental health conditions I have:





List of medications:





Physician’s Name:_____________________________________________________
Phone Number

Psychiatrist’s/ Therapist’s Name:________________________________
Phone Number


Printed Name:____________________________ Date:_______

Emergency Contact (this section must be filled out):

Name:________________________________ Relationship___________


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2009 05:10AM by Garden of Even.

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Byron Katie (the Work) Milton Erickson and Cactus therapy
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 25, 2009 04:23AM


its true in all of these LGAT seminars that they don't work on everyone. Its a numbers game, and they know it. They advertise widely, and it bounces off some people, some buy a book or two, while some others get deeply hooked into it.

Your friend was possibly a person who was not in too much pain in life, so The Work made her/him feel worse. The Work is ultimately all about creating more guilt in people, and self-blame, which is literally the foundation of depression. There is lots of evidence this is being done deliberately to people.

But BK targets people who are in serious SUFFERING, and there are a lot of people out there in desperate emotional pain. She advertises she can eliminate that pain, and eliminate suffering, which is obviously not true.

So for some people, certainly, they may just read a book, and think "this is weird" and that's it. Byron Katie understands that, she's a talented businessperson.
So its all about filtering. They cast a wide net, and hook a large group of people, and then that group gets refined over time.
The turning point is The School, which is the main LGAT indoctrination. Then it gets even worse from there, as one can see these "certified" facilitators who have gone through at least 800 hrs of BK for years! You see by the end of it, their entire life is dedicated to BK in some cases, just look at their websites, they are like shrines to BK. That is not an accident, its engineered into people.

So its true that most of the general public are not going to understand the advanced persuasion techniques being used by BK. They generally don't have the experience in that type of thing. But as you say, many people do trust their gut, and know when they are being "played".

But if one studies the BK method very carefully, as has been done here, you can see the advanced persuasion techniques being used on people.
Even the Ericksonian Hypnosis methods have been shown in detail, including using the exact same "cactus" metaphor from Erickson, in the suppressed book, A Cry In The Desert.
(Milton Erickson and Cactus therapy)

So BK is running a very sophisticated system, and there is no way her target audience is going to be able to see most of what she is doing without some intellectual study. Now of course, this is one of the reason's she tries to suppress her audience's intellect!

But why does BK do it? First off, as she admits, she has always been a successful entrepreneur.
But she also claims she was in terrible pain earlier in her life, which is probably true. So she got into all this new age self-help stuff, a Course In Miracles, and later more sophisticated persuasion stuff like the Ericksonian hypnotherapy, NLP, etc. (some of those details are in the banned book, A Cry In The Desert, which is available online to download as a PDF).

So as an entrepreneur, she realized she could make far more money being a New Age Guru, than working in real estate! And it also was great for her ego, to get treated like a superstar.

On the darker psychological level, she says she was sexually abused a child. She then says later things along the lines that she did it willingly, and other things I don't even want to repeat.
Of course, a child is never "willingly" sexually abused, as anyone in the field knows, they are groomed by an predatory adult, and its a crime.
The terrible thing, is BK clearly targets women who have also gone through that as children.
Then BK sells her "advice" on how to deal with sexual abuse to these people, and that "advice" is extremely damaging. She basically says to literally deny it ever happened, and since it happened you wanted it to happen, and sick things along those lines. Who is going to pick up the pieces of these people's lives when they come out of this years later? (if they make it that far).

Why do they have contracts they make people sign that have a "death clause" in them?

Notice how BK's "advice" about sexual abuse is the opposite to current treatments, where you have to determine the facts of what happened, and then realize it was NOT your fault in any way, as you were a child who was preyed upon by a predator? (then one continues in treatment progress, etc, when done by a licensed professional with experience).

So there is very serious BK pathology mixed in with all of the global entrepreneurship and advanced persuasion methods. Its all very predatory.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 04:28AM by The Anticult.

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