Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 14, 2009 02:29AM

If I ever wanted to slip in and research one of these gigs, I'd
slip in some of my own food, even if it was just a pack of M&M's stashed in my skivvies.

And I'd go to the bathroom and palm an M&M just to remind myself a portion of my life was still under my control.

And if they tried to take that away from me, I'd start a shit fit in public.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: February 14, 2009 02:41AM


You seem to be here as a would-be Katie apologist.

Have you actually seriously read the bible?

Sorry, but Jesus explicitly said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them. He explained that there would be wolves in sheep's clothing. Jesus also warned believers to verify by examining the fruits of those they scrutinized. That is, to examine carefully is their behavior and the byproducts of their behavior.

The church in Jerusalem expressed concern about Paul before accepting him, and they had him verified.

Paul challenged and questioned Peter's teachings openly, and he harshly derided and condemned leaders for their bad behavior in Galatians.

Christians are encouraged to check and verify through critical examination.

Do a word study on deacons, elders and evangelists, and see how they are to be vetted and judged.

Luther derided the absolute authority of the Roman Catholic Church and its practices.

The Reformation that followed ultimately produced Protestant churches and denominations, which typically have democratically elected boards, financial transparency and meaningful accountability through checks and balances.

Remember, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

When leaders hurt people they should be held accountable. And authoritarian regimes, teachers and gurus without meaningful accountability to those they preside over, are quite often given to corruption and abuse.

Discernment and compassion yes, but also exercise a little common sense.

Luther did.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and social acceptance and conformity
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 14, 2009 02:46AM

Its interesting what happens if you don't totally "play along" at these LGAT's.
Its instant social disapproval, usually non-verbal, or even just a lack of full social acceptance.

They know its more powerful to make everything "Voluntary". They know if they try to make people do things, they will rebel. (except signing the waivers).
So they make it all about social acceptance pressure.

Just try openly eating a box of Smarties at the "all organic" silent group meal, and talking during the meal. You will get drummed out without anyone saying a word.

Or at an LGAT when they have you do some weird intimate exercise with a stranger, decide NOT to do that exercise, as its inappropriate, and say so openly. Like, "I don't want strangers massaging my neck, and telling me their sexual problems".

The looks of social disapproval on other participants faces is priceless.

So for those who have done research in this area, and have actually done these things many times as an experiment, the response is almost identical. If you don't conform to the group behaviors, you lose social acceptance, and risk social disapproval. For some people its the most powerful motivator there is, social acceptance. (Like back in grade school, trying to "fit-in" with your school-mates).

Its so wonderful to go to a "normal" group meeting after these culty LGAT's, where people are eating french fries, leaving early, going for a smoke, sitting where they want to sit like at the back, arguing openly, and just being normal humans.
Going to these culty LGAT's makes you appreciate normal messy human behavior.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2009 02:53AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 14, 2009 08:50PM

I want to share something, that Byron Katie repeated many times at the School.

-She tells something great about The Work, and in the next sentence she says "-and its not for everyone (refering to The Work)"!

Every time I picked up on that, and felt it was directed to me. I felt that all the other students "got it" and I didnt. And ofcourse I desperately wanted to "get it". I guess that I not was the only one feeling that way..

P.S I have emailed RickRoss with "release of liability" attached in a Word document. I was not able to attach it here. So now it is up to a moderator to post it (if it is possible to do it that way?)

or maybe I could try copy and paste...



I desire to participate in The School for The Work with Byron Katie (”The School”) for the session to be held xx date, 2005 through and including xx date, 2005, at theCrown Plaza Hotel in Los Angeles, California (“The Facilities”). My participation is voluntary. I acknowledge that I am not obligated to participate in any activity, exercise, event or outing. I acknowledge that my participation in the outings is not required to receive a diploma. If I do not wish to participate, I will advise The School. I acknowledge that the outings of The School may include transportation and that I may be a passenger in the vehicle of another or I may use my vehicle for transporting myself, other participants, and staff of The School.

The School is an educational program. It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy, or any health program, regardless of what you may have heard from anyone. We specifically advise you that Byron Katie is not a healthcare professional and does not supply healthcare professionals on the staff of the School.

As a material of inducement of my participation at The School, I hereby fully and completely waive and release Byron Katie International, Inc. (“BKI Inc.”) and the Facilities, and each of them, and their respective representatives, directors, officers, and employees from any and all actions, claims, demands, damages and liability for personal injuries or damages to property, which has resulted or may hereinafter result, arising, directly or indirectly, from my participation at The School or my presence at the Facilities including any emotional consequences. I hereby also agree that I and any all other legal representatives of mine, including my assignees and heirs, will not make a claim against or sue BKI Inc., the Facilities, or their respective representatives, directors, officers, and employees for any injury or damage resulting or arising, directly or indirectly, from my participation at The School.

I acknowledge that I am voluntarily assuming all risks associated with my participation at The School and voluntarily agree to accept any and all risks of injury or death and verify this statement by placing my initials below:



I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School do not and will not maintain medical insurance coverage should I sustain any illness or injury during my participation at The School. I represent that either I will maintain my own medical insurance policy or that I will bear all costs and expenses associated with any illness or injury which I may sustain during my participation at The School and I release BKI Inc. from any liability therefore.

I understand that if I am on medication, The School requires that I continue to take my medication during The School in accordance with my doctor’s orders. In the event of an emergency, I hereby give consent to medical treatment including contacting emergency medical personnel and facilities.

I, the undersigned registrant for The School, understand that I am engaging in a course, which may involve physical, emotional and psychological activity and that in cases of such activity there is always a risk involved. I understand that in a group workshop setting, the instructor(s) are not responsible for monitoring physical, emotional and psychological limits, or the limits of other participants, and that I am therefore responsible for assessing the risk any individual or group activity poses to me, and choosing a safe course of action for myself. I agree to completely assume the risk and responsibility for any injuries or damages suffered by me arising out of my participation in The School.


page 2.

I understand that the materials for The School contain copyrighted works, trademarks, and other intellectual property. All rights are reserved. The materials for The School, or any portion thereof, may not be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior written consent of Byron Katie or Byron Katie Inc. Notwithstanding the above, I understand that I may make copies of these materials for my personal use only, provided that I must include the statement “Copyright 2005 Byron Katie Inc.” on each portion copied.


I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School may make photographs and/or audio and video recordings of the sessions of The School in which I may participate. I hereby irrevocably consent to the reproduction of my likeness and/or voice in any such photographs and/or video recordings. I grant in perpetuity an release to BKI Inc. and Byron Katie Inc. the exclusive and royalty-free rights to record, produce, distribute, sell, license to others, and to otherwise use or exploit any of such photographs and audio or video recordings, including my likeness and voice, taken of me or in which I may be included, for all purposes, including in connection with conversations, interviews, performances, speeches, and/or presentations at The School. If I do not wish to be recorded or photographed, it shall be my responsibility to advise the audio/video crew or the photographer, respectively, and they will make reasonable efforts to exclude me from any photographs and/or audio and video recordings.


I understand that no refunds will be granted. If you leave during the first day of School, your money less the cost of room and board will be applied to another School to be taken within one year. If you leave the school anytime after the first full day, no refund will be granted.

I have read, understood, and agree to this Agreement.


Printed name:____________________________________ Date:_______________

Diploma Please PRINT clearly and legibly your name exactly as you would like it to appear on your diploma.

Printed name:_________________________________________________________


page 3.
Day month xx through day, month xx, 2005 at the Crown Plaza Hotel, Los Angeles

PARTICIPANTS NAME:____________________________________________________________________
First Last

I would like The school to be aware of the following medical an mental health conditions I have:

List of medications:

Physician’s Name:_____________________________________________________
Phone Number

Psychiatrist’s/ Therapist’s Name:________________________________
Phone Number


Printed Name:____________________________ Date:_______

Emergency Contact (this section must be filled out):

Name:________________________________ Relationship___________


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2009 09:10PM by Garden of Even.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 14, 2009 08:53PM

YES it worked, but the headlines have moved to the left indstead of the center.

:o) GE

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: February 14, 2009 10:39PM

That waiver looks like it could cover most any contingency, in the hands of a savvy lawyer. Knowing the tactics being used, and the dangers thereof, I don't see where anyone should ever sign it.

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Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 15, 2009 12:01PM

Thx so much for posting the text for attending a Byron Katie School For The Work. People have a right to read that well before they attend, and to do so when they are not under social and time pressure at a large event. Most people are too rushed to read it, and they just sign it without reading it. (please never do that!!)
They also have a right to take it to their attorney and mental health care provider.
The waiver is posted above at this link.


There is so much in that document.
Notice the buzz-word that they use for all of these techniques. VOLUNTARY. That is the same buzz-word they used when the details first came out about what went on in these seminars.
No one is saying people are being forced a gunpoint to do anything. Its all about very sophisticated PERSUASION, much of it unconscious. There is social pressure, emotional pressure, philosophical pressures. They use those conversational hypnosis patterns, and sales methods.
They know that making persuasion appear voluntary, is the most powerful persuasion. They make it as invisible as possible.

The next part is saying that The School is not psychotherapy. But notice in their advertising, they pitch to Eliminate Depression, and heal Trauma, and eliminate stress, etc. So that is just another loophole. Advertise to make it sound like its dealing with therapy issues, and market it as a form of "therapy" but then put the OPPOSITE in the fine-print. That is standard deceptive sales procedure.
But its true, in their own document they state that Byron Katie is NOT A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL. So people should NEVER go to her with psychological issues of any kind. The waiver says it itself. Don't go to Byron Katie for help for any psychological issue. So that settles it right there. She has no qualifications for anything.
So how can they make all those "claims" on their websites about the psychological issues they can help with? That is probably up to the FTC to deal with.

Then to really cover their butts, they make you sign away ALL of your rights, in case you get hurt emotionally, or otherwise. So again, if they screw up, its YOUR fault. If they open your PTSD trauma from sexual abuse, and you have a break-down, TOUGH SHIT FOR YOU. It also adds your "heirs" have no claims either, one supposes in case someone commits suicide due to the stress? Yep, the next line says.

"I acknowledge that I am voluntarily assuming all risks associated with my participation at The School and voluntarily agree to accept any and all risks of injury or death and verify this statement by placing my initials below"

They even include DEATH on this list. Why? You be the judge.
People can easily go suicidal when trauma is opened up by unlicensed pseudo-therapists, and there is not 24/7 support for them. How many suicides have their been?

They then say that this "course" will involve emotional and psychological "activity". Notice the weasel words? Its not group therapy, its "activity".
And they are not going to monitor ANY limits of their own INSTRUCTORS!! Its right there in text. So again, if they screw up, from some incompetent "instructor" its YOUR FAULT. So if they botch your Soul-Surgery, that is your fault.

Then it gets really crazy.
If you talk about some deeply personal issue, and its recorded on video, or audio...BKI OWNS IT FOREVER. They can SELL it for profit, license it to others for profit, and "EXPLOIT" (their word) your image, voice, likeness, and everything else. They own it forever, perpetuity, that means they own it forever, even after your dead. You are completely stripped of your rights if you sign this document.
Many LGAT's would NEVER go this far, and include it in the same document. They would have a seperate page for people they interview on video.
Not Byron Katie, if you are in the room, and sign this document, she OWNS you on recordings. And BKI owns it. So even in 20 years, if Byron Katie retired or passed-away, and the company was sold to someone else, tough for you. You can be put in a TV infomerical, and uploaded to YouTube, and you can't do anything about it. They could even license it for profit to unrelated companies someday, so you could end up cut into an infomercial for a completely different product, and you can't do anything about it. That's what that means.

Don't ever sign anything like that.

And of course, NO REFUNDS.
God forbid that Byron Katie be held accountable like any other business. NO REFUNDS = BAD PRODUCT. The only place these days with no refunds is the dollar store. This is dollar store pseudo-therapy.

So notice, even if anyone from BKI screws up and hurts you, its 100% your fault.
If the seminar is bad, no refunds.
If they sell video for profit, of you crying and talking about personal issues, they keep the money.

This is a deal with the devil, to sign something like that.
No one should ever sign something like this, ever. Why?
Your bear 100% of the risk, and Byron Katie bears 0%.

This is exactly the same as The Work, in which everything is YOUR fault. (that creates guilt and depression).
Notice that BK always talks about how there is no "truth" and all the rest of the new age gibberish?Well, this document is the TRUTH. If you sign it, then it becomes true.

4 Questions applied to the text of the document:

Is it true? YES.


How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought? TO NEVER ATTEND THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK, AND TO NEVER SIGN AN OBSCENE RELEASE LIKE THAT FOR ANYONE, EVER.



Of course, the irony is many of these waivers are not worth the paper they are written on, as seen in many cases where LGAT's have seriously harmed people, and people have fought for justice, for example, with Landmark, and many others. []

Conclusion: Never ever sign this type of release to attend a "seminar" ever in your life. That is proof positive that the seminar is very damaging to many people.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 16, 2009 02:45AM

I think the "best one" is: " I hereby also agree that I .................will not make a claim against or sue BKI Inc........

So, if you end up having a reason to sue BK, well too bad, Katie is away, on the way to the Bank, laughing all the way!!!

Imagine the size of her trauma, needing so many nice people to heal her. She is one fucked up lady!!


P.S During those 9 days in LA, she never came across to me as being happy and blissful. I saw her more as gleeful and gloating. And I was feeling really offended when more than one person there, told me that I have the same eyes as Katie, because I think she has cold eyes. YIEKES.. Well, maybe I am cold.."it takes one to know one.."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 02:46AM by Garden of Even.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: amiryeti ()
Date: February 16, 2009 03:17AM

... and the irony is that people who staff the turnaround house have to sign a document where they pledge confidentiality, if they break this, the document says that Byron Katie or members of their family can sue them.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 16, 2009 07:50AM

Just going by the BK photos on her books and PR materials...

I always thought her eye make up was excessive.

I was reminded of an old Joan Rivers comedy routine?

She tells how she tried to be sexy by wearing false eyelashes to bed, only to wake up because the eyelashes had slipped off into the bedclothes.

Her husband is yelling, 'Bugs! Bugs!"

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 07:55AM by corboy.

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