Well...I strongly/completely disagree that I am wrong that 'knowledge' of the techniques will protect people!
First off, I never would have said "knowledge alone" can protect people. I don't even know what that means! (of course empty facts are almost useless).
And I have always said no one is ever totally immune from getting duped. Even pure greed can lure almost anyone, when there is REAL money on the table in excess of 6 figures, and people get Gold-Fever.
Knowledge of the Tech's, (not just NLP, but all the social influence tech) implies mastery of them, awareness of how they work.
And even if a person has a TINY knowledge/awareness of them, that can be enough. As they see someone trying to "play" them, and then you know they are trying to dupe you. Then you don't give them any money, and get out of there fast.
So you might know only 5% of what they are doing, but you keep 100% of your money. That's a good deal.
Its not even wariness or suspicion, its simply being aware of what they are doing, as they are doing it.
And it is NOT easy. For example, listening and analyzing the Byron Katie CD's and books on tape is very difficult and draining. You have to listen, pause the CD, think, make notes, go back, etc.
And also, as I mentioned a few times, you can "double-dissociate" when dealing with people who are doing the Tech on you. In your minds eye, you simply watch yourself being talked to, as if you are watching a video camera, nothing fancy. This makes it easier to see what is being done.
As far as the Girlfriend Getaway, maybe that is a good example. Feeling disgust is good! That means it didn't work, as you didn't buy it.
But maybe the Getaway part might be just the idea of a vacation with a friend? Everyone has vulnerabilities. Some are about "love" some about money, fame, sex, adulation, success, etc.
All the human vanities and fallibilities, every human is subject to, they exploit that.
Like..."get rich quick with no effort". mixed with anecdotal salespitches...like...
“SOLVE ALL YOUR MONEY PROBLEMS FOREVER” [www.flowofmoney.com
"I am now almost 49, married for 27 years, have four adult children and have my own consulting firm. Much of what I have accomplished has come from things I learned in your book. I have ordered copies on Amazon from all over the country and have given a copy to every client that I work with. The list includes a pro golfer who will be playing in the US open, a gymnast who will be competing in Athens, several CEOs of billion-dollar corporations, Iyanla Vanzant (author of 15 books and talk show host) soon to be Life Coach on the television program called Starting Over, Steve Chandler (author of 7 books, including a best seller in Japan and in China. Steve is paid 40k a day to speak. I have been his personal coach for 10 years), and others."
— Steve Hardison, Phoenix, Arizona
Obviouly please do NOT buy that book!!! These guys know how to exploit human weakness, and its nothing fancy. Its about as fancy as getting a doggie to chase a steak on a string.
But for someone who REALLY knows these techniques they backfire when someone tries to use them on you. Why? Simple reason.
You see the person is trying to dishonestly manipulate you, so you close down your mind and wallet. Game over. That part is very simple. Is there any person who is going to trust someone they have just caught lying to them MANY times in a row? Hopefully not. (if so, then a person needs some help in that area, of course).
Again, this is all very complex stuff. And no one is totally immune to getting duped, of course.
But what else can anyone do, than to take the knowledge of the many techniques, and apply it?
Even IF there are some behaviorist stimulus/response triggers, then what? The only way to deal with that is by being aware your buttons are being pushed, and to do something about it, even just getting the hell out of there.
But going into an LGAT environment is very dangerous and tricky.
Frankly, when "free tickets" come along to do research and attend an LGAT, you can't "play along" full-out, or you might get sucked in. But you sit near the back and WATCH what the speaker is doing to people, write down their techniques. Leave the room frequently, etc.
You mostly ignore the "content" and focus on the meta-level persuasion techniques.
What else can a person do than to become aware of the techniques being used? Then part of that awareness is knowing how to fight against them. Its like Judo or psychological self-defense.
What else can a person do?
And again, even if a person only has a small knowledge of the techniques, that can be enough. Not to fight against it, and overcome them in an LGAT. (that is very difficult).
No, simply to realize they are trying to "play" you, and to close your wallet, close your mind, and get the hell out of there fast.
And if they try to physically stand in your way, as some of them will do, then you have to know how to tell them they have 5 seconds to get out of your way, or you are pressing 911. 5-4-3-2-
Everyone is vulnerable. And we are most vulnerable when we cannot see the techniques.
But we don't have to see ALL the tech to know we are getting scammed and duped, then just get the hell out of there.
Of course, these groups exploit people who are "too nice" as they say. So for those folks, perhaps learning powerful Assertiveness is also part of their recovery.
and of course, some people even may have Dependant Personality [www.mentalhealth.com
] or something like that.
If so, then that person really needs to seek some excellent accredited professional help, or they might just keep going back into it, over and over.
But int the end, one can't do anything, until one is AWARE that something is going on.
This is why they DENY anything is going on, and tell you to turn off your "mind".
Anticult is wrong to say that knowledge alone of these techniques will protect anyone. These techniques play on the very human desires for certainty in an uncertain world and none of us are, by nature of being human, ever immune to those desires. It is the wariness and suspicion keeping you away from people practising this stuff that is protective as it is not possible to keep up your guard forever.
This is not an attempt to sway you, I have long since quit trying to change anybody's mind except my own, it is just what I have experienced of the LGAT techniques which are shady, underhand and risk triggering mental instability for some participants.
I agree with Stoic that knowledge alone does not offer enough protection. Maybe it does at the expert level that Anticult has attained?
Anticult, remember a few months ago you dissected that "Girlfriend Getaway" article, and I, despite immediately recognizing all the techniques the author used, still had all the positive feelings she intended? Not toward Katie, but toward the "Getaway".
I knew enough not to act on those feelings, and felt quite disgusted at being manipulated, but I still had the positive feelings she wished to evoke. It felt like an automatic response.
Learning about these NLP and hypnosis techniques has been immensely helpful, but I've been wondering if there's more that can be done to protect ourselves and others from what these predators are doing.
Maybe that's the human condition, but I'm not so sure. Anticult (or anyone else) does the knowledge you have of these thought-reform techniques prevent these techniques from working on you at any level? Are there other facgtors that prevent these techniques from evoking anything other than ridicule and disgust?
I'm also thinking of those pick-up guys who use similar techniques, although those poor stooges are so lame all I want to do is hand them a pair of crutches.