Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 10, 2009 06:45PM

Meadow, thank you for your posts.
Thanks from me too. :-)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Meadow ()
Date: July 10, 2009 06:50PM


Quote from The Anticult
Its very accurate that this Byron Katie situation is about Power.

Its not just about money, even though the system they are running is a brilliant cash flow system with much of the 'cash' in the form of what many are calling "free labor".
Its pure profit. Labor is the biggest cost of any business, and if you can get that labor (Staff) for free, or even get people to pay their own way while they work...jackpot.

And this is how they do it. The free phone help line is how they maintain that the work is always for free. They have it operated by volunteers. However it has become a very much desired status, to be 'allowed' to work on their hotline. Take a look at the requirements below. You are very elite when you are allowed to do this 'service'.


Institute for The Work
Do The Work Helpline Approval Process
Information for Candidates
Certification program participants who qualify will become a volunteer on the Do The
Work Helpline as a part of their certification training. The process is outlined below.
The job of a Do The Work Helpline volunteer is very simple: we are here to give callers
an experience in the clean and simple process of The Work. When appropriate, we
answer questions about how to do The Work and direct callers to resources on that will support them in doing The Work on their own.
Initial Requirements for Candidates:
• Completed a second School either as staff or participant
• Completed a minimum of six months of One-for-One.
• Successfully completed the teleclass “Improving Your Facilitation Skills”
• Contacted the Do The Work Helpline as a client, at least once.
Approval Process
The process begins when you let your mentor know that you feel ready to begin service.
• Ensure that you have met the initial requirements listed above.
• During the next couple of mentoring sessions your mentor will walk you through
various exercises that are designed to support you in the role of Do The Work
Helpline volunteer.
• Before the initial call, both you and your mentor need to review the following
individually or together:
o Do The Work Helpline Process in the Candidate Forum.
o Guidelines for Do The Work Helpline Volunteers
o Requirements for Facilitators posted in Downloads/Candidates
o Caller Guidelines posted on the Do The Work Helpline page and in
• Once they feel comfortable recommending you they will arrange a 2nd interview
with another mentor.
• A 3rd facilitation exchange with a member of the Do The Work Helpline Team
(certified facilitators who are experienced Do The Work Helpline volunteers) will
be scheduled
• Once all recommendations are received and reviewed you will be sent an email
indicating whether you have been approved as a Do The Work Helpline
volunteer. If you are not approved you will be invited to reapply in 3-6 months.
• If a mentor experiences you as not ready for the Do The Work Helpline at any
point in the process we will invite you to reapply in 3-6 months.
©2009 Byron Katie, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
• If you do not initially qualify as a volunteer on the Do The Work Helpline we
suggest that you fill out a Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet and take your
thoughts to inquiry. The feedback you received during the interviews will support
you to deepen your experience in The Work. Please do not contact any of the
mentors you interviewed with after the interview.

And when you don't pass all the exams and meet the requirements, well.... then you just do the work right? For them it seems it is always a win-win situation.

So clever and ingenious.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2009 06:54PM by Meadow.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Janaki
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 10, 2009 08:02PM

Wow, check out the latest on Janaki's blog:

Byron Katie & Janaki

An excerpt from the intro page:


Currently I am working on a second edited version, and as soon as it is done I will make this blog available as a downloadable pdf for easier printing and reading.

So far over 30.000 times a page in this blog has been read. I don’t get reactions very often, but when I do, they are mostly by people who have read the whole story thoroughly and who understand why I wrote this, and who also understand the way in which I wrote this. These people thank me for writing this story in their responses.

A couple of times I have received criticisms, which I have also posted on the relevant pages.

The interesting thing is that so far any negative feedback, often laced with judgments, sarcasm and cynicism, came only from people who are into The Work. What they love to do is to point out that I should do The Work. However they don’t really point it out, they sort of throw it into my face, which is incidentally, one of traits I noticed in people who are into The Work, and which I object to. They preach kindness, but it comes across as far from kind.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 10, 2009 09:16PM

'Sorry but statements such as I've noted above are suspicious to me.

Just calling it as I see it.'


As one suspicious person to another, I can only applaud your calling it as you see it.
As Anticult has noted, BK is using a perversion of the non-dual ideology (or worldview) to further her own power hungry ends.

I read the thread in its entirety before I posted so was well aware that newcomers were treated with excessive suspicion and investigated in an attempt to uncover BK apologists. I had to make my own decision about whether I wanted to tolerate that amount of animosity (which is an unpleasant and uncomfortable situation for anyone) directed at me before posting.

You may not have expected to be deemed a BK apologist but I am not you and felt differently. My background and interests are not the same as yours. I do not have to be a clone of you to find BK and her works to be destructive and viciously self-serving.

I have spent many years studying (for my own reasons, previously stated) the non-dual worldview. I found the study to be helpful to me and my particular problems in life. It is a system of thought which is an extreme position and carries extreme risk. My problems were extreme and required extreme solutions. I found the only people at that time who knew enough about these problems to help me move past them. It clearly isn't the solution you would choose but as I said previously, I am not you.

The non-dual worldview is still a thought system, a tool. When it has done the job you are using it for it can be discarded. It did the job for me and as an ideology I have discarded it, I like the real world with all its problems and messiness, including the fact that I will often be treated with suspicion by people who have no reason at all to trust me.
Despite discarding the ideology, I retain a deep respect and appreciation for the non-dual system as a tool.

I would not recommend such extreme solutions to anyone else. In competent hands the study of the non-dual is essentially self-selecting, that means that the risks are made very clear to the student and the decision to continue or not, at every point, is with the student.
A competent teacher is constantly probing and testing the students understanding and will not push the student further than the students current understanding permits. This is an intense one-to-one relationship, not a LGAT for all-comers, or a Band-Aid quick-fix for every human suffering.

Byron Katies hands are clearly not competent.

Since I am an intensely private person, this is rather more explanation than I wanted to put into a public forum but you asked a direct question and I have answered it. What you do with the answer is up to you.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 10, 2009 10:57PM

Katie: True freedom is freedom from the mind. You take the pills, you’re free from the mind. When the body no longer functions, the mind cannot identify as a this. Everyone gets free. Sooner or later. So let’s free ourselves of the mind.'

My reading of this finds the above quote particularly pernicious. In the system of non-dual thought there are many exercises that require the student to contemplate and meditate on his own inevitable death. It is intended to counteract the common self-delusion that we will live forever. It is intended as a practice for those already well- steeped in the system and with a degree of trust already established in the working of their own minds.

The statement: " True freedom is freedom from the mind." is total BS.

Students of non-dual systems are often given that, or a version of that, as a first exercise. The student is expected to discover for himself that it is impossible to be free of the mind or of thinking or of any products of the mind.
It puts him firmly in the position of taking responsibility for the contents of his own mind, it is not intended as a literal truth to be swallowed wholesale.

The statement: "Everyone gets free. Sooner or later." is clearly a reference to the inevitability of death.

Not what I would consider an appropriate suggestion from a power-hungry businesswoman practicing hypnotic techniques and with a clear lack of any ethical responsibilties to a person with cancer, in considerable pain and with ready access to morphine. A morphine coma is a prelude to death.

The decision to end one's own life, regardless of what various religious ideologies might attempt to dictate, is nobody's decision but that of the suffering person. Encouraging someone who is reluctant to make that decision towards making this very final decision is a violation of the most basic respect for another human being. Morphine is given only in the extremity of pain not because it is so addictive but because Doctors are aware of the irreversible damage that large doses can do.

The statement:"Let's free ourselves of the mind" suggests that the woman should join BK in her blissful spiritual state.

Unfortunately for the woman BK is lying about her state and doing so for the sole purpose of maintaining power over her followers and keeping the cash flowing in.

She is not permanently blissful, such a state is not possible for us limited human animals, and we are all limited human animals---- including BK. When we get our thinking gear working effectively we can call ourselves homo sapiens but without proper thinking and appropriate behaviour we are at the mercy of our baser animal instincts.

So BK is lying about her state, 'Let's free ourselves' --is BK proposing to take the morphine also?? I think not.

She is pretending to already have this blissful state, and as Meadow pointed out has no real answers for a person in such pain except dubious mumbo-jumbo and an exhortation to take the morphine.
She has no true empathy for a person in extremity and can only concentrate on extracting herself from this painful situation by dispatching the sufferer asap.
Working with those facing inevitable death requires immense courage, patience and an ability to respect the wishes of the person facing death. It is not for the flippant or anyone with pat slogans and facile solutions.
She is not a great human being, she is lacking in the fundamental honesty to acknowledge her own limitations and the simple respect for others that any random person in the street has.

That she has the gall to post this mindless and pernicious nonsense, directed at a woman in an extremely vulnerable state, on her website as an example and come-on to her followers shows, to me, the extent to which she will go in her determination to exploit everybody and everything for her own self-aggrandisement.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and fear, censorship, MUZZLE contracts
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 10, 2009 11:04PM

That is more of the terrible illusion. Its not about Freedom.
Its about Fear, and its not just the social fear of speaking up, and being cast-out. As if anyone does speak up in any way, they will be ostracized, and kicked out of the seminar.

They can also have their Byron Katie so-called "certification" revoked by BK simply on her whim. Those who have the bogus "certification" are the most vulnerable to BK, as she totally controls their referrals. If she speaks out against them, its all over.

But they also use an unbelievable amount of MUZZLE contracts on basically everyone.

There are lots of reports out there, about how everyone who joins her Certification class has to sign a Confidentiality agreement.
Reports are there is another one for employees, and another one for Independent contractors and another one for anyone associated with the Turnaround House.
So they have MUZZLED everyone.
They even have muzzled the casual online poster to her forums.

Why is there so much secrecy and muzzling that it is impossible for insiders to have a normal conversation with anyone associated with her?
People get so paranoid, they don't know who to trust. This is what happens in all of these groups, when it gets to the point where people are afraid if they say anything to anyone, they could get reported to the powers that be.

What are they trying to hide?
This is Freedom? Of course not, its the opposite.

Perhaps some of these so-called "confidentiality" MUZZLE contracts will appear online somewhere, so people can have a look at them?
As mentioned, some people post information at
Also, some people even post anonymous information from perhaps an internet cafe downtown.

The concerned public does have a right to know what they are in for, if they get involved in a group, and to be able to do open research at home, and not have contracts shoved in their face at the last minute, in high-pressure situations.
Of course, should never sign any contract until one has taken it home for a while, and had it studied carefully by independant people.
These LGAT's always shove complex contracts at people in high-pressure situations, where there is massive social pressure, and no time to think clearly.
And never mind that, they want to try to stop people from thinking at all.


Someone sent me a copy of a teleconference that BK regularly holds with people who are in her certification program.

Some interesting listening.

I do have some close friends that are actually in the certification program. It is clear that even within the ranks, doubt has started to creep in, since some of them are feeding me information. They are actually afraid to post themselves, even when using an alias.

Meadow, thank you for your posts.

Please tell your friends about They can put info about Katie there completely anonymously. Citizens of countries such as Iran or Burma often use wikileaks, as do corporate whistleblowers.

I'm confused. What kind of spiritual freedom causes fear of exercising the most basic human freedom, freedom of expression? What the hell kind of "School" is Katie running? Can you imagine if University students in any Western democracy were frightened of criticizing their professors online anonymously? Even the most timid 18-year old wouldn't stand for that for half a second.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2009 11:09PM by The Anticult.

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Byron Katie (the Work) passive-aggressive, fake Love-Bomb junk
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 10, 2009 11:29PM

Notice the outrageous and absurd level of hypocrisy here.
Solvejg posts here telling people to "leave the rest", and ignore the parts they don't like.
While simultaneously posting a couple dozen rants against Janaki's experience and balanced viewpoint.

Why didn't Solvejg just "leave the rest" of what Janaki wrote?

Sorry, but this is the kind of blatant dishonesty, and intellectual dishonesty, one sees time and time again in people who are involved with the Byron Katie system. Enormous levels of dishonesty, and hostility, hidden behind fake "love and hugs". That fake Love-Bomb junk to strangers, is very creepy and manipulative.

Very passive-aggressive stuff, which one also sees with Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell.
and also blatant conscious lying, by a number of people.

Also of course, when people get indoctrinated into these groups, and cultish groups, when their installed core beliefs are challenged by FACTS and EVIDENCE, they will get extremely hostile. That is a standard human response, when any core belief is challenged effectively.
This is why any sort of cultish stuff can get so emotional.

That is why open public education of the specific subtle and powerful influence techniques being used is essential. Once people are able to intelligently see exactly what is going on, then they can make up their own adult mind, about some very complex issues.
It can also be applied to all of the other New Wage cultish groups out there, there are hundreds of them.

Hi there. Why be busy with the messenger (Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle)? Look into the message and decide for yourself what is useful to you and leave the rest would be my suggestion and nobody but you can know what is useful to you, so nobody can give you an answer to whether they are 'the thing' or not.
Love and hugs from Solvejg

check out the update on [] opening page, this Solveg person really beats down on her. funny she says love and hugs. sounds like a katie fan to me.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Meadow ()
Date: July 10, 2009 11:38PM

Some more goodies from Solvejg on Janakis blog:


“Since this apparently is an alias” you write. You like to thow doubt about the integrity of others it seems. I am amazed that Byron Katie put up with you for so long. I am a woman and Solvejg is a Norwegian name given to me by my parents. I am born in Copenhagen, Denmark in 1944 and now settled in Bangalore India for the last four years. I think you seriously need help and I don’t think that THE WORK will work for you. You need something that is not so subtle and deep, something that you can understand eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww and that is for your attitude to other people


Janaki Says:
July 10, 2009 at 12:08 pm edit
Thank you Solvejg. So you are not using an alias. Good for you and I was wrong. I merely pointed out that this could be an alias. The part about doubt about integrity of others are entirely your words and assumptions, not mine. I am glad to see that The Work really works for you, apparently.


Janaki Says:
July 10, 2009 at 12:19 pm edit
And sometimes there are people who claim that they practice The Work (not many, but definitely some), who are quick assume, judge and point out that people need to do The Work, in their self-righteous eagerness forgetting to apply it themselves.
quote from Solvejg:
“You need something that is not so subtle and deep, something that you can understand eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww and that is for your attitude to other people…”

Wow, talk about calling the kettle black. I don’t think this needs any further comments.
best wishes, Janaki


Solvejg Says:
July 10, 2009 at 2:50 pm edit
Indeed. I have only done the work a few times and you expect me to be ever so kind loving and understanding of where YOU come from and having done the work for years. Are you dense or are you dense? You take the right to throw shit on your mentor, on anybody who are not padding you on the head and telling you what a good girl you are shitting all over your mentor and what she gave you. You are some piece of work. A VICTIM with capital V. I am so grateful that you are not in my life. Poor Katie who was fooled by your “Let be serve you” pretentions.
eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww I hope you will never get another client ever. because you don’t deserve to have people trust you at all.

For some reason the best this person can say is eeeeeeewwww!!!!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 10, 2009 11:42PM

'Sorry but statements such as I've noted above are suspicious to me.

Just calling it as I see it.'


As one suspicious person to another, I can only applaud your calling it as you see it.
Stoic, I'm choosing to take your word for it - that you truly applaud my suspicion.

However, yet again you have said something that raises a great big red flag for me:

I read the thread in its entirety before I posted so was well aware that newcomers were treated with excessive suspicion
"Excessive suspicion" - when there has been troll after troll bouncing in here, compounded by the uncovering of an incredible amount of highly suspicious activity that is in one way or another connected with BK?

I hardly find the suspicion factor to be "excessive". I think it is right on the money.

To reiterate, I experienced ZERO "suspicion" from the non-troll participants here. And so I continue to find it very strange that anyone would be paranoid about possibly being regarded with suspicion in the course of making posts here.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 10, 2009 11:46PM

'Take what you like and leave the rest' was part of the 12 Step lingo years before Cockroach Lady ever arrived on the scene.

Its a phrase that has reassuring implications because it clicks right in with 12 step groups which is where many people do start out and then look for resources to continue healing themselves.

It should be noted that part of the 12 step traditions is that one is not to use 12 step meetings to prosyletize for any outside organization, project or creed. Another tradition is 'Principles before personality'--a matter clearly violated by BK who is all about HER personality at the expense of ones own.

So, a lot of adroit cult recruiters picked up this 12 step 'take what you like and leave the rest' and twisted it into a thin edge of a wedge technique designed to reassure potential marks.

The phrase 'Take what you like and leave the rest' was taken out of its proper context.

12 step groups clearly state what they are. They are not meant to be points of recruitment or feeder routes into something else.

But when someone recruiting for an LGAT says 'take what you like and leave the rest' it is being used in a manner that is different from 12 step.

When the LGAT recruiter uses 'take what you like and leave the rest' the ulimate agenda is being concealed from you. The phrase is meant to soften potential objections and keep you in the room or on the phone long enough that the techniques described by Anticult can then be dribbled into your synapses.

In 12 step, nothing is hidden.

(This said, plenty of people disagree with the 12 step model but at least, its laid out in plain view, so they know what it is and can choose to stay away if they so choose)


Have you ever taken a lot of morphine or saw someone who took a lot of morphine? It is not a lot of fun. BK is basically telling this woman to put herself into a coma. Can you imagine the nausea and the vomitting that could happen?

If opiates are taken in large quantities, it can give hellish constipation and even lead to fecal impaction.

Two, respiratory depression and death

Finally there are social consquences.

I know of two cases where people snowed under on opiates babbled stuff they'd kept secret all their lives and the disclosures had traumatic effects on the bystanders.

There are additional social hazards if one uses more opiate than is recommended by ones care provider

All those narcotics around the house can be a temptation for criminal activity. An unethical attendant might steal the stuff or gossip and a low life friend or relative of the attendant could burglarize the patients house to get the dope.

Two, people wanting more drugs than their providers are willing to sign off on are tempted to get them illegally from crooks or over the internet

Finally, if someone is snowed under and helpless, they could be unable to protect their own interests and have their belongings looted or even be pressured to make changes in their wills.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2009 12:01AM by corboy.

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