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The Anticult

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Cruz
A friend of mine who frequently visits Byron Katie’s Institute For The Work Forum brought the following to my attention. A few days ago someone quoted some info from your site regarding the true origin of Byron Katie’s ‘Tao book’. This contribution turned out to be the last entry on the ‘open’ forum. About an hour later the forum was closed “in order to better serve" the visitors.

Here a link to the post about [forum.culteducation.com]
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching by Greg Johanson, Ronald S. Kurtz
[www.amazon.com]

That sounds like someone hit a nerve, with another "book burning" incident, where the facts of reality have to be disappeared.
They are truly terrified of objective facts and reality.
There are also terrified, people would read the thread.

That post slipped by, but needs a closer look.
Someone could compare the books side by side, and see how exactly they match.
_________________________________________
QUOTE:
[forum.culteducation.com]
More on ‘BK copyright’:
The format of and idea for ‘Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’ is in no way originating from Byron Katie and/or Stephen Mitchell. In 1991, a book by Greg Johanson and Ron Kurtz called 'Psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao-te ching' was published by Bell Tower (it was reprinted by Random House in 1994). It’s a book on the subject of psychotherapy that’s been described as a recommended read for therapists and anyone in therapy who’s interested in spirituality. Stephen Mitchell knows this book by Johanson and Kurtz very well, since his translation of the ‘Tao-te Ching’ is used in it. After the publication of the Johanson/Kurtz book, Mitchell’s translation started selling and the Johanson/Kurtz book thereupon formed the exact outline for his and Byron Katie’s rewrite, published under 'their own title', ‘A Thousand Names for Joy: Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’.
_________________________________

Reference:
[www.amazon.com]
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching (Paperback)
by Greg Johanson (Author), Ronald S. Kurtz

Paperback: 160 pages
Publisher: Harmony/Bell Tower (February 15, 1994)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0517881306

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helpme2times
Maybe I made the error because I am so used to skimming Byron Katie written material, so that I won't feel like I am about to fall into a spell from the hypnotic writing. (That is my definite experience of her writing.)

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Jay Cruise
You're not alone there. I skim too. I actually had to debrief myself a few times when she had my head spinning.

And, for the most part, it's not worth patiently waiting for her to make a point that never arrives.

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...there were a remarkable number of people who were obviously mentally ill. Depression and Anxiety (Social phobias, Specific phobias, Generalized Anxiety, etc.) were to be expected, as were a fine spread of the more benign Personality Disorders (Obsessive-Compulsive, Hystrionic, Dependent were all well-represented). And there were participants with milder forms of Impulse Control Disorders (ADD/ADHD and hypomania). But there were also a scattering of the scarier Personality Disorders (Anti-Social, Paranoid, Schizoid and Schizotypal). Bipolar I and II, while not admitted, were apparent. And there was undoubtedly a few people who were hallucinating, delusional, or delirious.


I'd have thought Katie would have screened more carefully to reduce her liability in these cases, but she actually seemed to welcome the more severely disturbed. I was aware that no deliberate or careful screening of mental and physical problems appeared in on-line registration. Signing up involved giving demographic info, sending money that would not be refunded, and not much else. We were not asked about diagnosis or medication until we arrived...a bit too late to shoo away people who had come from all over the world. And there was that Surrender exercise at the beginning, where the message was very mixed: give us your supplements, vitamins, medications you don't really need (as if the truly sick could make that decision well) AND if you are prescribed meds, you should take them. Several people gave up prescribed sleep medications and anxiolytics and this was applauded with comment from Katie, "If you can't sleep at night, contact the staff member on call and they will sit with you. If you experience discomfort, do it here in the room with us during the day. If you have to sleep, do that here, too." It didn't take long before moaning, crying, agitated behaviors were the norm in the room well before fasting and 15-hour days of intense emotional work took their toll. And most staff and participants just left the suffering alone, ignored it or staffed it by listening to the sufferer do The Work again and again. Some people cried off and on throughout the entire school. Often people were crying so hard or were so anxious, they could not be understood when they took the microphone and tried to tell their experience. And sharing those experiences was an expectation. If you hadn't taken the mike yet, staff asked you why. I'm unclear on this, but I believe one repeater either had to go the mental hospital during this school or had done so in a previous school. In other words, the mentally ill and the neurotic, alike, decompensated and this was encouraged under the philosophy of The School.

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am holding grand, grand daughter Marley!
Just walked out of the last session of the School
for The Work and there she was, waiting for me

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helpme2times
_________________________________________
QUOTE:
[forum.culteducation.com]
More on ‘BK copyright’:
The format of and idea for ‘Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’ is in no way originating from Byron Katie and/or Stephen Mitchell. In 1991, a book by Greg Johanson and Ron Kurtz called 'Psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao-te ching' was published by Bell Tower (it was reprinted by Random House in 1994). It’s a book on the subject of psychotherapy that’s been described as a recommended read for therapists and anyone in therapy who’s interested in spirituality. Stephen Mitchell knows this book by Johanson and Kurtz very well, since his translation of the ‘Tao-te Ching’ is used in it. After the publication of the Johanson/Kurtz book, Mitchell’s translation started selling and the Johanson/Kurtz book thereupon formed the exact outline for his and Byron Katie’s rewrite, published under 'their own title', ‘A Thousand Names for Joy: Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’.
_________________________________

Reference:
[www.amazon.com]
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching (Paperback)
by Greg Johanson (Author), Ronald S. Kurtz

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...Lao Tzu says that when the sage is at work, people will say, 'we did it ourselves' (Chan). This is empowerment. Who is it who looks inside herself, explores the mystery, suspends old reactions, experiences the pain, and explores integrating new ways of being into her everyday world? Who else but the client. The therapist is blessed by being a witness, by carrying the water, by celebrating the new birth. It is enough. That task is done. It is time to withdraw. Anything else will sow confusion and induce a sticky, harmful dependence.

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Dr. Michael C. Labossiere, the author of a Macintosh tutorial named Fallacy Tutorial Pro 3.0, has kindly agreed to allow the text of his work to appear on the Nizkor site, as a Nizkor Feature. It remains © Copyright 1995 Michael C. Labossiere, with distribution restrictions -- please see our copyright notice. If you have questions or comments about this work, please direct them both to the Nizkor webmasters (webmaster@nizkor.org) and to Dr. Labossiere (ontologist@aol.com).

Other sites that list and explain fallacies include:

'Constructing a Logical Argument'

[www.infidels.org]

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corboy
The Rick Ross Message Board Continuing Education Project

Over the years, different members have recommended Carl Sagan's Baloney Detector Kit and his book 'Candle in the Dark', as well as other books by Cialdini.

The Nizkor Project, a worthy website dedicated to the purpose of countring Holocaust denialism, offers yet more resources.

[www.nizkor.org]

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At 5/12/2009 6:47 PM, Anonymous said...

Jody,

I've been reading posts by this guy, Stuart, for years now. Something just hasn't set right in reading him as he has spread out over the years, on sights over the Net. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but some discussion on the Rick Ross website has really helped to put some of what I was questioning in to perspective.

[forum.culteducation.com]

In Stuart's quoted text above from your website, he says:

"I'd imagine that an end to making such a big deal out of special experience comes with time and maturity. We can adopt a "middle way," not thinking of the experiences as delusions (just because they're non-oridinary), and yet not thinking that they make us Spiritually Superior either."

He then goes on to say:
"After a big experience at a meditation retreat, I told a very kind Zen Master about it, and she said, "Just forget about it!"

Jody, he talks about "maturity" and then goes on to quote a "teacher". Why does Stuart need to quote a "teacher", and a female teacher at that? Where is Stuart's voice by himself, is he capable of living life and speaking without quoting a "teacher"?

Another reason I bring up his 'timing' and the quoting a 'female teacher', is that recently on the Rick Ross website (a link you even hold on your website here, Jody), Stuart was called out on some issues, and equally important, his Zen teacher, Seung Sahn, was talked about. Some very interesting information came to light about Seung Sahn during the discussion on the Rick Ross website (discussion can be read here:)
[forum.culteducation.com]

Stuart is a poker player by his own admission. Watching Stuart post over the years, I've noticed the different hands of poker he will play. Take for example, his quoted text at the beginning of his comment above from your website. I would call that one his 'opening hands', swaying and welcoming someone in to the game.

Stuart may be genuine in some of his commentary, but I also suspect strategic poker playing in the mix. I've watched him woo people, yourself, Chuck and mule on this site to name a few. He does this well, but watch out, Jody, if he ever finds reason to play another hand of poker with you, he will.

Stuart screamed across many websites on the Net, once he had the encounter on the Rick Ross website. His aggression was alarming to follow and read, to say the least. Attempts at deflection seem to play a role in his communication at this level of engagement.

He will pound people over the head with his 'school of Zen' philosphy, all the while he has been building up his name as a recognized Zen teacher it now appears. Jody, you even featured him in that role here on your site in February of 2009:

Stuart Resnick on Youtube

File under: Endorsed

We are delighted to have discovered Gp pal Stuart Resnick on video on YouTube, where he parses popular culture and his own life, picking out metaphoric assists for the illustration of zen notions. He's very plain spoken and quite funny:


Insight with humor as a reinforcing influence is a teaching tradition we are always happy to endorse.
reply
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08th February 2009 13:24 p.m.

[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]

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Jody, I ask that you now team up with the Rick Ross bloggers and bring another side to this picture.
I ask that you do a full segment on Stuart's Zen teacher, Seung Sahn, some of the abuse that has been reported, and some of the abusive techniques Seung Sahn has been reported to use. Some seem to be a match for Stuart's 'more mature/advanced' hands of poker/communication posted on Net websites (when he raises the bar on his aggressive approach).

I realize that you, Chuck and mule, and others may be quick to come to Stuart's defense (he's good at building this around him, plays his hands well in doing so).
But, it seems there is another side to this story, one that needs to be fully explored and told.

I again attach the URL to the Rick Ross discussion with transpired. This is the one which triggered Stuart's scream across the Net.

[forum.culteducation.com]

It will not surprise me to watch Stuart launch in to a series of rants about the anti-cult movement being just like a cult, not allowing open discussion.

I can counter this with the thought that Stuart has fallen in to a cult thought system of Zen, where he beats people over the head again and again with his repetitive statements, and raises the level of aggression if a discussion does not go the way he wants it to.

Jody, please do some digging. Team up with the Rick Ross URL listed about. Post a full series. Let's see if a on-line intervention of sorts is called for. Has something with much more dark matter than even expected been hiding in plain sight all of this time?