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Byron Katie (the Work), Facilitators, Carol Skolnick, complaints
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 20, 2008 12:22AM

Very interesting.
It begs the question why she is writing this stuff. Are there serious complaints being lodged somewhere against Byron Katie "Facilitators"?
The irony is there is nowhere to lodge a complaint if a Byron Katie "Facilitator" goes bad.
Byron Katie does not monitor them in any way. You are completely on your own.
They are not actual facilitators of anything. They don't get any kind of actual license.

A hot dog vendor has WAY more licensing and oversight than a Byron Katie facilitator. Literally. They have to get a license, and food inspectors drop by quite often to see if they are selling the hotdogs properly. If they mess up more than a few times, they can lose their license.

But none of that can happen with a Byron Katie Facilitator.

So if a person runs into a serious problem with a Byron Katie facilitator, what can they do?
Call the police?

Depending where you are, there may be a place to report people doing Therapy without a license, but in some areas that is not illegal. Any crackpot or con-artist can call themselves a "psychotherapist" and start seeing clients in some areas! No oversight whatsoever, except the police.

Its a template for serious abuses, and no accountability.


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helpme2times
Speaking of Carol Skolnick... I was just thinking about her since I have been following her blog...

I find any number of Carol's blog entries quite disturbing, such as this one:

[[url=http://soulsurgery.blogspot.com/2008/05/difficult-facilitator.html]Focus on Facilitation: Facilitating With A Motive (a.k.a. When Facilitators Attack!)[/url]]

"When Facilitators Attack"? That sounds ominous. Carol appears to be joking, but her choice of words says a lot to me.

Consciously or unconsciously, Carol wants to EXCUSE facilitators who might mess up in some way while facilitating "the work". ...

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Byron Katie Gurumayi, Install the guru in your body Induction, NLP
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 20, 2008 12:45AM

Install the guru in your body meditation?

for real?!
Did the SYDA people use the word "install" or was that added later?
Because that is a phrase right out of NLP-hypnosis modeling.
"Install the X in your body".
Just substitute the word INDUCTION for "meditation".

"Install the Guru in your body (hypnotic) Induction".

That is flat-out hypnotic engineering out of NLP. (NLP is just a technical and systematic way to model-copy anything).
To take the image of the Guru and INSTALL it in the BODY, is incredibly powerful. And that does not go away quickly, it can sit there for many years, if not permanently, if you don't get it out.

That is very profound. If people went through that type of deep hypnotic conditioning, and then just walked away from Gurumayi, they would feel a deep hole in their psyche. And they would run and plug that emotional hole with someone like Byron Katie, or whomever.

Put it this way.
If SYDA used the word "Install" you can be assured that they hired some of the senior NLP of the time to come in and design some processes for them to use on people. They would have taken an old practice of people visualizing their Guru in their chakra's, or whatever, which is ancient.
But the NLP people come in, and spend a few weeks studying it in great detail, and then they shrink it down to its essentials, and come up with something like...INSTALL THE GURU IN YOUR BODY.
They write it into a MANUAL, like they did with countless other things. (I bet we could find out who wrote this NLP program, could have been Robert Dilts as he was into that, even writing a manual on the Cognitive Patterns of Jesus of Nazareth). [www.nlpu.com]

The word INSTALL is very specific. Its designed to become part of the person.
That comes out of the software world, which Richard Bandler was involved in. (you "Install" a software program).
and meditation is just another word for hypnosis.
So it becomes...

Install the Guru in the Body hypnotic Induction.

Does anyone know if SYDA used the word INSTALL?

Also, Byron Katie uses similar but more refined techniques, as she tries to "fuse" with your identity, not in the mere body, but in your very concepts of self.



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corboy
Gurumayi, leader of SYDA yoga, has not been seen in public for the past 5 years..about 2003.
...
One former member reveals that those who took a month long SDYA intensive were actually at one point trained to internalize Gurumayi (an abusive woman for whom appearances and beautiful clothes were everything)--internalize this guru within thier own bodies.

In the words of psychotherapy, to make Gurumayi their maternal introject. [www.ex-cult.org]

The secret—install the guru in your body meditation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2008 12:51AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2008 06:17AM

Dear TAC:

The person whose AOL material I referred to used this phrase:

"I began to fear I could really slip off the deep end, especially after the "secret" install-the-Guru-in-your-bodymeditation which did NOT feel like a loving thing to do to myself."

And...it isnt just a case of people walking away from the guru, with this active introject planted in them.

Gurumayi walked away from her disciples five years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2008 06:24AM by corboy.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Gurumayi
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 20, 2008 08:26AM

that is fascinating.
Gurumayi hiding after installing herself in them is very powerful.

Gurumayi could also just be sick of all those people and wanted to be able to get away from them, while still keeping hold of the organization.
Who knows, if she has not been seen, she could even have had face-lifts, and then just do whatever she wants.

But installing herself in their psyche's using advanced techniques, and then vanishing without saying anything is very very diabolical.
She knows if she tells them what she is doing, then it kills the mystery and power. A True Believer might think she is in other dimensions communing with demi-gods, when in reality, she's watching American Idol, or Bollywood Idol, and eating Cheetos, or whatever. (Most Gurus tend to love to watch TV for hours, and the male ones often play video games hours a day...nothing else to do, I guess.)

But the happy story is people can deprogram themselves and do a Guru UNINSTALL. Just do the opposite of what they did before. Kick her out of the body using imagination and self-hypnosis meditation, over and over. Reverse all the processes.

One has to do the same thing with Byron Katie if she is in your mind too. Kick her out using the same methods she installed herself, in reverse.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Gurumayi
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 20, 2008 08:35AM

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The Anticult
But the happy story is people can deprogram themselves and do a Guru UNINSTALL. Just do the opposite of what they did before. Kick her out of the body using imagination and self-hypnosis meditation, over and over. Reverse all the processes.

One has to do the same thing with Byron Katie if she is in your mind too. Kick her out using the same methods she installed herself, in reverse.
The other day I imagined that BK was a roach and I squashed her to death under my shoe. Very effective. It felt soooo good. :-)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) vs IRRT and CBT
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 20, 2008 09:01AM

That is very effective, to trust one's own unconscious to come up with metaphorical images, and then to complete those images in some way that seems most beneficial to the person.

There is a PTSD therapy called IRRT, which is related to CBT, which does that specifically.
"Imagery Rescripting and Reprocessing Therapy". IRRT.
They are doing studies now, that show, only in the imagination, even quite extreme imagery can be very helpful. Dr. David Burns explains this in a chapter in his CBT book, When Panic Attacks.

One could do things like squash the yapping cockroach, or catch it, put it into a bottle, and then launch it into the sun, etc.
Or just change the images of BK in one's mind, change her voice, kick her out of your mind. Its a type of empowering guided imagery.

And the key is to not do it once, but to do it everyday, for maybe 15 minutes, for at least a month, or longer.
IRRT has people do up to an hour a day of exposure work, but its a new an evolving variant of exposure therapy.


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helpme2times
Quote
The Anticult
But the happy story is people can deprogram themselves and do a Guru UNINSTALL. Just do the opposite of what they did before. Kick her out of the body using imagination and self-hypnosis meditation, over and over. Reverse all the processes.

One has to do the same thing with Byron Katie if she is in your mind too. Kick her out using the same methods she installed herself, in reverse.
The other day I imagined that BK was a roach and I squashed her to death under my shoe. Very effective. It felt soooo good. :-)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) vs IRRT and CBT
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 20, 2008 09:03AM

I will happily repeat the process. Thx!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work), kick her out of your mind forever.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 20, 2008 02:43PM

yeah, its a good reminder that even though the techniques these people do to us are powerful, once we understand them, they can be reversed quite easily.

Imagery Rescripting, like crushing the cockroach lady imaginally, can be very powerful.
Also, Verbal Rescripting, or Disputing.

One can imagine each time she speaks in ones mind, the sound is turned off, or its just nonsense coming out of her mouth. Or like when Byron Katie was talking on YouTube with her mouth full of food and just telling Whoppers one after another, that was gross to see, revolting, actually. That's a good image.

This is what people like Byron Katie try to discourage people from doing, from vigorously Disputing the false ideas she is putting out there, and vigorously Rescripting the images and stories she is implanting.

Or if someone has had a Guru-Installation, like in SYDA, then you uninstall the Guru, like a software program from your computer. You do what was done in reverse, but you have to know what was done, to get rid of the malware that might be left behind.

Its also important for everyone to remember to NOT do what Byron Katie says to do, and do a Turnaround, that is just polarized thinking. So that might be going from loving the Guru, to hating the Guru. That amounts to the same thing, its an Overgeneralization. Turnarounds are a mental trick, to entrap people in a closed loop.

Instead, one carefully and rationally descontructs the Guru, and the sham falls apart naturally.
But also, powerful emotion and healthy anger is part of it.

One might imagine Byron Katie is like some unwelcome relative that moved into your "inner house" and won't leave. Maybe you throw her out, or if she won't leave, file the papers, and then have the Sherriff remove her from your "inner house", in your imagination.

But the evidence shows its not magic, so it takes repetition, over and over, until it sticks.
In IRRT, they do the imagery over and over, on a schedule.
Notice how in the Guru Installation Meditations, they also do it over and over, for months and years.

One might even give onself imaginal mental surgery, and cut the Guru out of the body, like some Sci-Fi movie or something, if that is a fun image. Or zap them with lasers, etc.
Or do some Kung Fu on the Guru in the mind, and kick their ass to the curb.

So we just use the imagination, logic, science, facts, and humor, to cut the Anti-Guru Guru's out of the psyche, and heal with better images, each person chooses for themselves.

Its revolting what Byron Katie and her hubby Stephen Mitchell try to do to people.
But once you can see their techniques, its doesn't work as well. Hopefully more people will learn some of the methods being used on them, by Katie, and many many others.
But it does take quite a lot of work to learn what is being done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2008 02:48PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2008 08:38PM

Must mention other gurus have done disappearing acts after leading followers to be unhealthily dependent on them. Gurdjieff pulled that after his car accident (some thing he drove drunk, and some think he was fed up with all the dependent students clinging to him and faked the accident).

Ouspensky, a little more honestly, stated to his own startled students, that the whole thing was worthless, there was no fourth way 'system' and that they had to find their own way. He died soon afterward. But his message came too late. His students were dependent and sorted themselves following diferent leaders. Some ended up in Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's outfit.

People in one of the human potential groups in Northern California were suddenly ditched by thier leader. They split up and fell into the hands of substitute leaders whom their abandoning leader referred them to. The outcomes were not happy.

Anticult wrote:

"Its also important for everyone to remember to NOT do what Byron Katie says to do, and do a Turnaround, that is just polarized thinking. So that might be going from loving the Guru, to hating the Guru. That amounts to the same thing, its an Overgeneralization. Turnarounds are a mental trick, to entrap people in a closed loop."

Jung put it a little differently but would agree. He warned that there is a danger of taking on the features of who or whatever we hate. Adoration and Hatred are both bondage.

So as TAC put it, humorously deconstructing the guru is far more effective.

Remember the old advice if you're scared of someone, to imagine what they look like sitting on the toilet taking a crap?

Rationally descontructing a guru or his/her arguments is highly effective. .

And...notice how the apologists will try to con us into thinking we are pathological or negative if we do that very thing?

We may be accused of projection, or negative thinking, or get that tired old chestnut, 'Well, that wasnt *my* experience."

(Experience can be misleading. Look at the number of stalkers who are convinced that their horrified victims adore them. Look at the number of drunks who experience themselves as competent to drive. At the number of terrorists convinced that what they do pleases the Almighty.)

Another rebuttal to rationality is 'It worked for me.'

(Recovering addicts tell us that smack gives a nice initial high and so does crystal methamphetamine. You spend the rest of your addiction chasing that initial high, and can never get it because neurotransmitters are depleted)


Look back at the great job 'disenaged' did, using critical thinking to deconstruct BK. Right away, one of the BK apologists on that board replied, 'Gee I seem to have hit a nerve or something like that..'which made it seem that D was merely 'upset', when in fact D was anything but upset.

'Disengaged's' use of critical thinking was masterly. (this person reported being a forensic accountant...a Formula One mind at work here).

However, 'Disengaged' perhaps felt the need to be polite and soothe ruffled feathers, or may not have had 100 percent confidence in what she was doing. For at the end of her post she very slightly watered down her MO by conceding at the tail end of that post that maybe some day research would show that BK 's method might be shown effective.

But...note that that D's little concession was not enough for the apologists. Disengaged had done too good a job earlier...as in when she said that what BK said didnt even qualify as psychobabble because BK herself isnt a trained and licensed mental health professional. Disenaged's essay was met with 'gee I seem to have struck a nerve'...as if D was the one who was 'too sensitive'.

(What is the matter with a little sensitivity? That's why smoke detectors work--they are sensitive to smoke, and by golly we want them to be sensitive, even if every so often we trigger that alarm if frying up a storm in the kitchen.)

Seems that D was the one who struck a nerve and the troops moved in to soothe themselves by making it seem D was the one who was upset...when in fact, they were upset but could not consciously admit it--and sought to project thier unease onto D.

Trouble is, I think it is hard to have confidence in rational thinking because its an unpopular pursuit.

And...so very many people are desperate to feel good that it seems dreadfully rude to question the seeming source of their happiness.

People would rather feel soothed.

Years ago, there was an Argentinian or Chilean movie about the military dictatorship that had stolen babies from their imprisoned mothers. The poor mothers were killed and the infants were adopted into the very military families complicit in the murders.

One woman, married to an officer who is childless, raises one of these babies, not at first knowing where her child is from...then is contacted by a brave grandmother who has sought to trace what happened to her disappeared daughter.

The adoptive mother, to her horror, begins getting hard evidence that her beloved daughter was stolen from a murdered prisoner.

Tormented, the adoptive mother tries to discuss this with her parish priest in the confessional.

He doesnt want to hear the story, it is too upsetting to him. So he tries to shut her up, reciting the words of absolution.

The brave and tormented woman shouts, 'I dont want absolution. I want the truth!'

And, despite the terrible pain and social cost, despite the rage of her officer husband, this woman who prefers the pain of being awake to the comfortable slumber of complicity, arranges to return her adopted child to her grandmother.

The film is about 20 years old, I wish I could remember the name.

But its enough to remember 'I dont want absolution. I want the truth'--even when the truth hurts.

And a stance like that can lead not to cozy community, but social rejection and loneliness.

Its not something that can ever be mass produced.

Thank God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2016 01:37AM by corboy.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2008 09:13PM

There's an song from the musical South Pacific that may contain
a good image.

'I'm going to wash that man right out of my hair....'

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