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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Stephen Mitchell
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 09, 2008 03:43AM

"Daphne"

Here is a way you can help.
Please email Stephen Mitchell today and ask him to provide you with links to the specific peer-reviewed studies which indicate the results of all of the controlled studies that have been carried out to test The Work by Byron Katie.
(So far there are none posted anyone is aware of).

Remember, a Control Group study, is not the same as Testimonials.
Stephen Mitchell knows all about that.
Its up to Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell to provide the public with this evidence for their medical sounding claims like Eliminate Depression and Eliminate Stress.
They maybe should also send a copy of those to the FTC as well.

control group study
[skepdic.com]

anecdotal (testimonial) evidence
[skepdic.com]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - 4 Questions and a Turnaround explained
Posted by: solea13 ()
Date: July 09, 2008 04:51AM

" ... if byron katie said she "healed" someone, she was simply wrong."

Simply wrong about healing someone?

Making claims of the ability to heal someone is a decidedly complicated business. I know because I have worked in the field of 'complementary medicine' in the cult group I have been in for many years. We have to be extremely careful in the way we word our documents. The word 'treatment' for example (to my understanding) can only be used by official members of the American Medical Association. The word 'healing' is not as restricted but we are still careful about it.

All terms related to the medical field are loaded! Why? Because they mean something. They are very important, especially to sick people!

Let's talk a bit about the possible damage done to the person who initially believed themselves healed of their illness. In my mind, there is almost no doubt that significant emotional and psychological distress would be experienced when that person realized that the illness was still present.

Perhaps the impact on Byron Katie was minimal, "Oh, I was just wrong about that, oopsie!" To the person involved, however, it could have been a devastating blow that may even have set them back physically and made them even more ill.

If you (or someone else on your behalf) is claiming that you are 'Awakened' or 'Enlightened', and you make healing illness a part of that claim, there is no such thing as 'simply wrong'. That is a false claim. It contributes to the myth of you as a 'Living Master' or 'Guru'. You can't 'simply be wrong' about it without taking any responsibility. If it's not true, any truly 'spiritual' human being would make the effort to correct that misinformation and make sure people understand that they DO NOT have the power to heal.

If you persist in acting like a Living Master or Guru on the basis of those claims, then you are possibly guilty of defrauding people. If you keep on in that vein, then hopefully you will be brought to justice and tried for 'the illegal practice of medicine without a license.'

In this day and age you can't get away with 'simply wrong'. It just aint gonna cut it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2008 05:00AM by solea13.

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Re: A Cry in the Desert: The Awakening of Byron Katie by Christin Webe
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 09, 2008 05:00AM

Quote
Daphne
if byron katie said she "healed" someone, she was simply wrong. however, i'm a little lost on this cult part. no one trashing her work seems to address the four questions and turnarounds, which is the useful part of her stuff. if you don't like the suggestions of healing or the stuff about roaches or whatever, then toss it aside, i agree it's fairly meaningless. [...] the four questions and turnarounds have useful validity. use the part that works and disregard the bull. [...]
Let's let an Amazon reviewer of "Loving What Is" weigh in on Ms. Katie's approach. This is someone who apparently took the work quite seriously, really threw themselves into it - i.e. they read all BK's books and even experienced her in person...

"This book is dangerous"

I wish I had never read this book. I was bought into the idea of her "enlightenment" and being a perfectionist really tried to make it work for me. I suffer from anxiety disorder and tried to use "the work" on it and it has made it so much worse.

There are some scary premises in here: that people "are being thought and breathed" and that we can't drop a thought or belief except through her inquiry. These ideas take away personal choice and sometimes inquiry doesn't work. Beliefs and thoughts can be changed through life experiences and also through other methods like cognitive behavioral therapy (which I more recommend).

I've read all of her books and it astounds me has she has no emotion over her mother's death or the fact that she herself was going blind. She accepted her blindness so much that she didn't even take action to try to correct it. It was her husband that found her the help. I want to feel emotions so that they can guide me and lead me to take action. I want to grieve when people I love die. I don't want to "turn it around". I want to believe in god and that he is directing my life in a very personal way, not that I am being "breathed and thought" in a collective human consciousness way.

I have also seen her in person and have seen how some did not get it when she worked with them or how they misinterpreted it and had more pain.

Inquiry worked for me when I was having trouble potty training my daughter and it might be helpful when dealing with confusion over others behavior, but overall it can be dangerous, and I think there are better methods out there to get to acceptance and peace.

Personally, this book has caused me so much more pain, that I wish I had never read it and now need to recover from it. I hope this review helps someone else avoid the unneccesary pain I've experienced through the work.

I have learned from this, that self help needs to be taken with a grain of salt and I need to evaluate the author and their training, and also not accept what others say so blindly, even if they claim to be "enlightened". I need to check it out with my own truth and god.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2008 05:19AM by helpme2times.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 09, 2008 05:13AM

Some good news regarding one of the apologists in our midst:

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,58903#msg-58903]http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,58903#msg-58903[/url]]

Thank goodness for forum boundaries!

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Byron Katie "A Cry In The Desert" by Christin Lore Weber
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 09, 2008 08:29AM

[Excerpt from A Cry in the Desert for education, analysis, and research]

alleged QUOTE from the book:
________________________________________________
Excerpt from Byron Katie's A Cry in the Desert-The Awakening of Byron Katie:

(the introduction)

Attempts to articulate the life and teachings of Byron Katie defy language. "In the beginning was the word. Unknow the word." This is what she tells me as I struggle to write this book: "The words to which you are attached are the steps away from experiencing the presence of God that you are."

Her language startles. She uses words unconventionally. By this practice she invites us to unknow. The word itself is the first movement out from the Divine. The original One does not move. All of Byron Katie's words are an invitation to return to that One.

The normal structure of language is inadequate to Byron Katie's experience. Based, as it is, on distinctions between subject and object, relative and nonrelative being, and temporality or the location of events in time, language strains and cracks under her use of it to communicate herself. From Byron Katie's perspective all is One, admitting of no object or other. If there were a language of pure subjectivity, Byron Katie would speak that language. She exists in a reality of complete nonrelativity: All is God. "I Am You;" she insists. She would like to capitalize every word that does not refer to an illusion of human ego. She is most at home in present tense.

Some people are saying that hers is a new language, a new religion, a new psychology, a new medicine. Byron Katie laughs and tells us there is nothing new. There is only God. "Undo yourself," she says. "Know the Truth."

Byron Katie's words are best taken at their most fundamental level of meaning. When she speaks of realizing something, for example, she means to become one with the Reality. She is not speaking of conceptualization. When she tells us to know the Truth, she is not suggesting that we engage in some intellectual process. Instead, she is telling us to be consistent with Reality, the pure and living Truth that is God.

Because a book requires a language structure, I attempt to be as true as possible to Byron Katie's experience, while at the same time, to render a text that is readable, When quoting or referring to Byron Katie's teaching, I take liberties with sentence structure and capitalization of words that usually appear in lower case. The awakened consciousness, although it cannot be captured in language, can leave traces of its presence. If the reader's mind feels boggled, I suggest a suspension of mind. Read with the heart.

Christin Lore Weber.
___________________________________________

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Re: A Cry in the Desert: The Awakening of Byron Katie by Christin Webe
Posted by: SusanD ()
Date: July 09, 2008 12:07PM

Quote
Daphne
if byron katie said she "healed" someone, she was simply wrong. however, i'm a little lost on this cult part. no one trashing her work seems to address the four questions and turnarounds, which is the useful part of her stuff. if you don't like the suggestions of healing or the stuff about roaches or whatever, then toss it aside, i agree it's fairly meaningless. [...] the four questions and turnarounds have useful validity. use the part that works and disregard the bull. [...]


Daphne

I would like to address the "Four Questions". They are the mental equivalent of spinning someone round and round on the spot for ten minutes, then telling them they must walk straight.

I feel the same way as the Amazon reviewer helpme2times quoted. I am still recovering from being sucked in just by reading and believing the book Loving What Is.

Telling people effectively that you should love "everything" good and bad, not discriminate between the two, undermines people's whole belief systems, and now, I see that was the intention.

I don't have the knowledge to name the techniques used (but learning from here, I suggest you take a look too if you are really interested). But I do know that The Work messes with people's minds and rips down their (necessary) defences.

Comments?

Susan.

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Re: Byron Katie/The Work, Depression and Mindfulness
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 09, 2008 10:31PM

Quote
SusanD
Daphne

I would like to address the "Four Questions". They are the mental equivalent of spinning someone round and round on the spot for ten minutes, then telling them they must walk straight.

I feel the same way as the Amazon reviewer helpme2times quoted. I am still recovering from being sucked in just by reading and believing the book Loving What Is.

Telling people effectively that you should love "everything" good and bad, not discriminate between the two, undermines people's whole belief systems, and now, I see that was the intention.

I don't have the knowledge to name the techniques used (but learning from here, I suggest you take a look too if you are really interested). But I do know that The Work messes with people's minds and rips down their (necessary) defences.

Comments?

Susan.
Hi Susan, and welcome. :-)

(I can be a bit of a grouch about Byron Katie and about certain goings on in this forum, but I don't want to throw all warmth and friendliness out the window!)

FYI, Rick has banned Daphne from further posting. Apparently she was engaging in personal attacks, which Rick seems to have edited out of some of her posts.

Maybe Daphne is still reading these posts and is willing to open her mind to the criticisms about the work?

It is so scary to see how people get sucked in and vehemently defend the work. I certainly had thought it was going to be some sort of miracle cure. I'm so glad I found my way to this forum and refrained from enrolling in the "school" or further engaging in any work-related activities.

In addition I've been working with a book called "The Mindful Way Through Depression." The approach in the book doesn't promise to "eliminate" suffering, but it does offer ways to cope with it. And it is body-centered, unlike what BK teaches. It's really helping me. It's great to know there is stuff out there that really can help, and without any nasty side effects.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 09, 2008 11:07PM

Duh, I see that Susan has already posted here, back in mid-June, so my "welcome" to her is a bit tardy. Oops!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: SusanD ()
Date: July 10, 2008 09:02PM

Thanks for the welcome, info and book recommend, helpme2times.  Yes it's hard to keep up here, but I am finding it all fascinating.  
I am reading a David Burns books that anticult recommended which is giving me some grounding after the months I was in 
BK's "unreal reality". *coughs*

Quote
helpme2times
Duh, I see that Susan has already posted here, back in mid-June, so my "welcome" to her is a bit tardy. Oops!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2008 09:05PM by SusanD.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 10, 2008 09:20PM

Quote
SusanD
I am reading a David Burns books that anticult recommended which is giving me some grounding after the months I was in BK's "unreal reality". *coughs*
Hey, thanks for reminding me about the Burns book, I want to read that too. I've just put it on reserve at my library.

Psychology really can be a wonderful thing. How could I have missed that for so long? BK actually includes some good aspects of psychology in her stuff, which contributes to people getting hooked, but then she tries to deny psychology's helpfulness elsewhere (so you will only turn to her?), such as in this groaner of a quote from "Losing the Moon":

Quote

It's fear, ach! Labeling it fear without investigation is how it has all these lives. And that's where psychology is born, in trying to find out what this fear is. Well, it's nothing. Let's just investigate it in the beginning. Go back to the beginning. And then there's no need for psychology.

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