To repeat, the real emphasis is the use of story telling and to a vulnerable and exhausted group of people.

It is Never 'Just a Story'

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
corboy
To repeat, the real emphasis is the use of story telling and to a vulnerable and exhausted group of people.

It is Never 'Just a Story'

[forum.culteducation.com]

Yasmin, please read the link Corboy provided, it will give you a look into the sort of manipulation that Katie and McCarthy do. IMO McCarthy is a snake and fraud who has jumped into the seminar bandwagon to make easy $$$. Anything she puts her name to now should be thoroughly investigated before going near it. What she was before doesn't matter, what she does now does.

Katie though seems to be in a league of her own with her horrific blame the victim routine. What a great way to create emotional zombies via trauma elicitation and redirection. It's evil. And any author that endorses her works and/or methods should be avoided like the plague. Either Katie bribed them or they can't tell a wrecking ball from a therapist.

I find it pathetic that the NLP people who taught her are silent on her mind f**king people into emotional veggies and taking their money and worse promote her works. It shows their collective moral bankruptcy, that includes the very smart but rotten to the core Stever Robbins who was Katie's NLP teacher. Who BTW gives her all sorts of glowing reviews.

BTW the discussions here still get under Robbin's skin. He doesn't like being exposed as a modern day trainer of cult leaders.

Walter 123, I am well aware of how techniques can be used to manipulate a crowd or group of people. In fact I'm not sure if it is on this thread, but I have linked to one of Derren Browns' youtube clips where he demonstrates making everyone in a mall lift their arms up at the same time. And they all just "wanted to do it.." completely unaware that they were being manipulated.

Making people blame themselves for things other people did to injure them is imo also wrong, and could potentially be dangerous. How do you protect yourself if you believe that everything someone does to hurt you is your fault? Victims of say domestic violence have a hard enough time ackowledging that they are not to blame and that it is time to leave; teaching them that it is all their fault is no doubt great from a perpertrators point of view, but it is hard to see that it would help the victims to get out of the situation.

I have never liked the fact that their were reports of Byron Katie reportedly encouraging her clientele to give her their most precious posssession.
Any registered therapist would be struck off for that kind of behavior.

Re Jenny McCarthy; it is ironic that in her work to help her vaccine injured child did not in fact just sit back, relax and love what is.Instead she persued multiple treatment types and spent a lot of time, despite ridicule, in informing others both about what happened to her son, and about various therapies she used to help him.

As Corboy points out though, parents of special needs children ( similarly to many other groups facing long term life challenges ) can indeed become tired, exhausted and vulnerable.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 10:02PM by yasmin.

A discussion from this thread, back in 2008.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Hello All,

I am a newbie and have read several responses on this particular thread. I feel the need to share my 2 cents worth. I have traveled many spiritual paths in my long journey. Some felt right to me atthe time and fed me and then I lost interest. Soon another path would come to me offering more and interesting me again with deeper insights. I have always paid attention to my intuition, however, and for me books like Conversations With God, The Hicks, The Secret, and others never seemed right for me. Now there has been such continuos talk here since 2006 of Byron Katie that I am wondering what really is going on with some people? If it does not speak to you, simply move on.

I have read several teachings of Krishnamurti at one period in my life that spoke to me without religious leanings, basically speaking about the way we think or do not think and that absence of thought does bring peace. As babies I feel we are a blank slate and are programed by our family, and the society around us concerning many things such as illnesses, religion, race, patriotism, etc. Being brought up Catholic, I was very religious but as I grew older was hearing and seeing things that did not make sense to me. My questioning only upset my family as they really had no answers exceptto say I was too deep and you just believe because the bible says so. Like why since a new pope said we could eat meat on Fridays that it was no longer a mortal sin, which means one burns in hell forever if they die. So now I asked what happens to the people who died before the new law? See what I mean? Our beliefs can cripple us if we do not explore deeper and so I no longer have a family but they still are part of the faith even though they tried to kill each other when I was little, lol.

Now, I was drawn to Eckhart Tolle in 2001 when I read his book. I do not know why he had such an instantaneous awakening, but I have heard of many sudden miracles that even the medical profession had no answers for so I do believe there are things that can happen that are outside of our normal awareness. I know when David Copperfield made the statue of Liberty disappear on tv in front of millions and also those on boats nearby, and the made it re-appear really made me think of the power of the mind and suggestion. He is an illusionist yet we all saw it disappear. I believe ET because of his academic background and listened to his reasoning of why he left his work to be on a park bench. He said now he realized that he did not have to take such a drastic stance but that he did not know what happened to him and could no longer continue with his work. He then began to study these things and was able to find out what did happen to him. I do not believe he was looking to be famous or start any kind of movement. People began coming to him and asking questions and from there he talked to small groups of people for nothing. He said his needs were always taken care of and his father was disgusted when he visited him and he had only a mattress on the floor and no car but was happy to show him his new bicycle!

So, now it is true that his teaching has become bigger than him and I do not believe he has any control of it nor wants it. If money is cominig to him so be it. How many chruches are raking in big bucks like the Vatican, Scientology etc. and do some internet checking on these and see what you get....

Mary Baker Eddy and Christlian Science is another scam not many know about and CS's do not want to believe but if it were not fort Phineas Quimby healing her and her praise of him and preaching for him for 3 yrs. about the real cause of illness and how he discovered it. But you do not hear that. Only that she is the founder and Discoverer of Christian Science. He discovered it afters years of research and worked daily healing people of ther false beliefs they were carrying in their minds about religion and the medical profession. She borrowed his manuscripts also.

My point in all this is that we need to follow our own intuition when it comes to people with the answers to life and have the fix for all that ails us. If we have made bad choices, and who of us has not, then we are angry or discouraged and probably spent big bucks too.

I know that I got a copy of his first book free when I wrote to the publisher and explained and gave evidence of my financial situation.
Try that with the Hicks material!! Have your credit card ready or too bad for all this spiritual stuff you must have to change your life.

A Course In Miracles was also a journey I explored since I was diagnosed in 1987 wirh MS. Now I also wrote to Ken Wapnick explaining my situation and was given all the tapes/material I wanted. It is not generally broadcast however and when I sold my home, I gave a donation to the scholarship fund. I think this is the true sign of spiritual material...no force, just your own intuition and if you cannot afford it, you still can have access to the material. ET now has tv etc but he is NOT in control anymore and if he really knew someone did not have $, he would allow free access IMHO.

So, I am not aligned with any particular path right now and through my own studies find I am embracing some agnostic viewpoints. I just wanted to share how I feel and yes there are tons of charlatans out there, Jim Bake, Jimmy Swaggart etc all got caught doing the very things they lectured to us about so we all have clay feet at times. Just take what feels right to you and take responsibilty if you find out you were wrong. If you see money is the big thing and pay pal is the only way you can reach someone to explain your situation, then your in the wrong place!

Sincerely,
Star

Ah yes.
Stever Robbins.
NLP Trainer to wannabe cult leaders.

And you better believe that advanced NLP Trainers have gone and carefully studied and NLP modeled (copied) the exact techniques used by the most successful (richest) cult leaders in the world.
They study it systematically, and make their own private manuals.

As once that have that kind of knowledge condensed, they can market it for enormous amounts of money.
Of course, the NLP Trainers also exaggerate and misdirect about what they know, to leverage their own advantage even more.

Stever Robbins courses and trainings are to be avoided at all costs.

Anyone in the NLP related fields who are so dishonest and manipulative, must be avoided by all except the most advanced people, who are able to figure out what they are doing, which is very difficult to do.
Even though these advanced NLP Trainers are very clever and subtle, a scam is still a scam.
Ironically most "blue collar" people see through these white-collar scammers in seconds, as they are harder to bamboozle with bullshit.

Saleswomen like Byron Katie cannot be taken at mere face value. There is a quite subtle manipulation taking place, which is explained in detail in this thread. There is nothing simple or direct about it.
Byron Katie uses very advanced persuasion techniques, that unfortunately more people cannot see without some knowledge in that area.

Star,

Tolle is another con-artist/charlatan. He is indeed in the same category as Swaggart, Jimmy Baker and Byron Katie. Most people don't even stop and think they are taking advice from a glum and morose man who was destitute and suicidal for some years telling us how to live and even meditate when he himself has zero education in psychology and meditation. Who was a veritable nobody until he got on Oprah's show to pimp his book.

And you don't go Oprah unless you want to be nationally known and promoted. BTW that's how Byron Katie and James Arthur Ray got their cults going is by appearing on Oprah.

Now he's very rich and famous.

Walter,

I am also a professional astrologer for many years. I have examined his chart. I know this man is not the same person he was as reflected in his chart and I happen to believe what happened to him was real. You have a right to your opinion, however.

Sincerely,
Star

Echhart Tolle has been explained and debunked in these threads many times.
Tolle is just a self-promoter, who tweaked and sold his "Story" to make money and get "respect".

Eckhart Tolle -- Comments From Someone who Knows Him [forum.culteducation.com]

skepdic.com/astrology.html [skepdic.com]

Anticult,

You have now debunked a profession by which I have helped many. I have read sooooo very many of your posts. Thank you anyway as I have nothing more to say except to have a nice day.

Star