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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 04, 2020 11:03PM

"Not for Everyone" by Anonymous is the same book as Armageddon for Beginners by Dave Mckay (leader of the Jesus Christians). The Jesus Christians have changed their name both as an organisation and individually, but they are still distributing the same books with different front covers to attempt to hide their past and be less traceable online. The ISBN of both books is: 9966-755-14-4 The content of the books are virtually identical, with the exception of a few minor changes.

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]-

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 05, 2020 12:42AM

I just realized the above link is broken. But it's odd, because I cannot seem to fix it. It's something about the URL that is not fix-able. Hmmmmm...sneaky of them.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2020 12:45AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 05, 2020 02:17AM

For some strange reason, the link will not properly post to this page. So what I'll do, is separate the URL into two chunks, and will leave it to the reader to cut and paste them, and combine them into one URL. Here are the two pieces:

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]

/home/not-for-everyone-by-anonymous-

Cut and paste the two together, and you'll have a link that takes you to a sort of "hidden page" that will describe this:

"Not for Everyone" by Anonymous is the same book as Armageddon for Beginners by Dave Mckay (leader of the Jesus Christians). The Jesus Christians have changed their name both as an organisation and individually, but they are still distributing the same books with different front covers to attempt to hide their past and be less traceable online. The ISBN of both books is: 9966-755-14-4 The content of the books are virtually identical, with the exception of a few minor changes.

The blurb on the back is the same with the exception of a few alterations. The parts mentioning Dave McKay as the author have been deleted.

The Jesus Christians publicly claimed to "disband" in November 2010. This was and continues to be a lie. We worked with this group for thirty years previously and when we disagreed with their leader we were excommunicated.

The group continues as before but they have experimented with different names such as "Truthseekers" and "End Time Survivors" and they dishonestly claim that they are not an organisation but are independent individuals who have come together as an end time "movement". Their leader, Dave Mckay, calls himself "Brother Dave..." and has told all his members not to speak with us, despite our relationship with them spanning 30 years. This is not unlike many other religious groups that lack democracy and confidence but have a hierarchy that do not tolerate discussing and working with dissent or opposing viewpoints. The leaders enforce excommunication and expect submission (under the pretext of submitting to God) as a form of prohibiting members from hearing and acting on criticism against them. In this way members cannot engage as freethinking individuals in the issues regarding the disagreement, but rely on the decisions made by their leaders. We hope that one day these people who used to be very close to us will discover that they don't need to be institutionalised and follow such unconscionable policies that only divide and retard moral and character development and never seek to heal.

Transparency and open dialogue while respecting differences is the best way to advance humanity.

This corruption, secrecy and divide and rule policy is how those who cling to and crave power over others dominates, stifles and destroys.


“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2020 02:18AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Date: September 05, 2020 09:50AM

Thanks Whirlwind.....is this the group in Australia (Kevin and his companions)? No that was 1998 wasn't it? Boyd and Sherry were quietly 'removed' earlier weren't they... the group in England then?

(It's difficult to keep track of all the individuals that David McKay has betrayed and alienated down the years...far, far exceeding the number of current 'members' at any one time!...that's for sure.

The principle under discussion here is important....Does scripture support the concept of individual rights...and even the wider principles of liberal democracy (I personally remain doggedly Socialist...but would consider freely held, transparent and open elections and referendums to be fundamentally 'Christian'....I am NOT discussing economic theory!)

While the bible lacks a 'Bill of Rights'....I believe that the basis for a Bill of Rights exists in the first commandment....



34But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


As the Old Testament is extremely specific with pointed references to how one might 'love God' replete throughout with refences to 'Justice' and not defrauding your neighbour.... to my mind the first commandment necessarily authenticates those principles of procedural justice without which the command would be necessarily invalidated....


McKay of course deliberately contravenes scripture when he dissembles his grasping betrayal of those who spend years of their lives in abject subjection to him....as 'justified' by the 'outcome' (The purported 'Kingdom of Heaven')...McKay will happily cheat those subject to him out of their savings and their lives...and then dis-communicate (frequently rob) them once they decline to continue conferring ultimate Authority on him ....


(An amusing example though...Why are there no longer any 'Doctors' in the JesusChristians? At one period of time...they all studied Nursing and several JC's went on to become full Doctors.... there are no longer Doctors in the JesusChristians....because the qualification empowered David's erstwhile minions to simply 'walk out on him' ...into careers where he was completely irrelevant...

So that was the end of that foray into the world of medicine... all his 'Doctors' (there to prove that the Jesus Christians could 'heal the sick' by the way and thus allay McKay's fears that his cult was falling short of the high standards set by scripture...

Mark 16:18 ..they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."...) ....ended their time in the JC's dumping McKay....and McKay then realized he had only made their passage out easier!

Those 'Doctors' and 'Nurses' from the JesusChristians were VERY VERY lucky to escape with an independent career of their own from their time spent in the cult....the overwhelming majority of former members came out with absolutely nothing for all their years of servitude!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2020 09:54AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 05, 2020 11:09AM

ImagoDei Wrote:

> The JC's like to use a link shortener when linking
> to AVID or other associated channels, so I ran a
> search for recent posts that included "bit.ly" and
> found those six (as well as the ones mentioned
> above). I only went 6 months back, so there may be
> more.

Please tell us (for the sake of the less savvy): what is a "link shortener", ImagoDei?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: ImagoDei ()
Date: September 05, 2020 02:46PM

The Whirlwind Wrote:

> Please tell us (for the sake of the less savvy):
> what is a "link shortener", ImagoDei?


Link or URL shorteners do just as the name implies: shorten the URL link. This can be useful if a URL is extremely lenghty and ugly. You can condense it down to only a handful of characters. With websites that may have a character limit for your posts, they can be handy if you are posting a lot of links. You can even give the link a custom name.

For example, take this post:

[www.reddit.com]

If you are on a desktop computer and you hover over the hyperlink titled "The Most Hated of ALL Jesus' Teachings" with your mouse, you will see on the bottom left side of your screen the URL that is being linked. In this case, the URL has been "shortened" and renamed as

bit[DOT]ly/TheMostHatedTeachingOfTheLordJesusChrist (replace [DOT] with a period to make the link work)

This redirects to the following video from A Voice in the Desert:

[www.youtube.com]

They can also be used to hide the domain you are linking to, so spammers and scammers use them often. By using a URL or link shortener, you don't know what website you are going to until you click the link. They can be used to circumvent domain bans. For example, a subreddit could ban a certain domain and have methods of detecting when a URL from that domain is being posted, and remove it. With a URL shortener, it will bypass the filter.

Some services also provide analytics, such how many people clicked the URL or linK, what country that person was in, what type of device they were using, etc. I know they have used the following two URL shorteners in the past:

bit.ly

vidrise.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2020 02:50PM by ImagoDei.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Date: September 05, 2020 06:47PM

Thank you Imagodei for the pointers....they are appreciated.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 05, 2020 11:46PM

Malcolm Wesley WREST Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Whirlwind.....is this the group in
> Australia (Kevin and his companions)? No that was
> 1998 wasn't it? Boyd and Sherry were quietly
> 'removed' earlier weren't they... the group in
> England then?
>
> (It's difficult to keep track of all the
> individuals that David McKay has betrayed and
> alienated down the years...far, far exceeding the
> number of current 'members' at any one
> time!...that's for sure.

No, that's the "Making it Real" Wix website that the Gianstefanis run. You go from the main page, to "Articles" to "'Not for Everyone' by Anonymous". See that? But why will the link, the URL, post here to this board directly? That's very strange.

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: September 09, 2020 01:10AM

More on the Gianstefanis here:

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Date: September 09, 2020 10:46PM

Thanks Whirlwind,

I had a look through their website....technically admirable...however;

You will remember that...

...The Gianstefani's once posted extensively on this website stridently defending McKay and describing all those who had left the JesusChristians as faithless and disgruntled.... UNITL the Gianstefani's were duly betrayed by McKay and 'booted out'...at which point they then were as critical of McKay as every other individual who has ever posted here on this site or elsewhere....

...but continued to lie to themselves that they had left the JesusChristians for the 'right reasons' (...while everyone else prior to Gianstefani's departure had left for the 'wrong reasons'...as a result of their alleged spiritual 'inadequacies')...

You could otherwise admire the Gianstefani's for persevering as they have for the last decade... their vanity prevents them from communicating with other former members however...and hence vicariously serves to strengthen McKay... by dividing his opposition. A short sighted attitude to hold...

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