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apostate
Casey asks: [welikejesus.com]
So, if Dave was not disconnecting the battery of a severely terminally mentally retarded boy's wheelchair to stop him from driving into traffic or some other dangerous area, and he wasn't stopping some kind of temper tantrum from a naughty boy then why would he have disconnected the battery (if he did indeed disconnect it)?

Let me repaste what I originally said: [forum.culteducation.com]

"Let me jog your memory Dave. The boy was not using his chair as a "weapon" as you claim. He was in fact trying to get away from YOU, and it was on a day when the then community would jog around the block. It was outside the Geelong house on the footpath. Is your memory returning yet? You DID meet the mother as I remember her clearly tearing strips off you saying that what you had done was tantamount to cutting his legs off. YOU did it yourself in clear contravention of how the woman parented her child. She was horrified. Ross would remember this. This child would be unlikley to live till he was 18 due to the nature of his disease"

The mother was horrified and very angry at Dave for doing this. She did not thank Dave, but instead saw his action as comparable to cutting his legs off. It is interesting that you could see Dave's action in doing this justifiable Casey, even though the mother (the boys permanent carer) clearly did not. Which brings on the point I made about Dave being unwilling to be told anything by anyone, even survivors of Jonestown.

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hello
Having another quick look at the JC forum, I'm glad to see that Sue's treatment of the abuse survivor from The Chidren Of God Cult has been noticed by a couple of people.
The " conversations " that I've had with Sue have been of much the same ilk. I remember once calling to ask if she'd like to join a workshop about healing that I was arranging. It would have given the JC's a chance to meet lots of people from different religious backgrounds- ( and at that time)- I hoped it would enable them to move away from their cult status. There were Quakers, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, Rastafarians, Muslims etc. all coming together to learn something new and even more importantly to show love for one another.
She screeched, " We're not interested !"
When I asked " Why?" she just started screaming hysterically. " STAY AWAY FROM OUR COMMUNITY! STAY AWAY!"
I calmly asked her where she felt that Jesus was supporting her actions.
She said " I don't have to answer to you!" and hung up on me.

I was so pleased to see the same charm displayed on the Jeremy Kyle show for 1.4 million people to see.

Pls note when Sue raises her voice in a semi - hysterical fashion.
" Can't anyone see what's happenning here?!"

That's the same warm up act I had from her initially.. " No, no- I'm the victim here".....sings Sue....then she harangues and SNEERS at the Children Of God survivor.

But remember everyone....SUE is the victim!! I remember sitting with this woman who laughed as she recounted ' the amusing' tale.....of the Bobby Kelly incident. She takes NO RESPONSIBILITY for it at all. Fair enough....

Then there was the tale of how one of their members sexually assaulted a young boy. They didn't report it to the police because the parents understood.....the member they had taken in had learning difficulties...they taught him how to wash...and more importantly he responded well to the teachings..( I'll never forget when she said that)...they had a meeting amongst themselves - I believe it's called a ' grievance metting'- as within the JC's, everyone is accountable...went the song.
The decided to end all association with the member and he was banished from the group...".it's not about whether or not you re- offend...but PLEASE, PLEASE don't bring negative publicity to the JC's."

They're the innocent victims in all this..........
It's taken me far too long to speak out about some of the things I saw...yesterday was such clarity for me.
Just because Dave and Sue choose not to recognise abuse...it doesn't mean the rest of us should share their delusions.
ANY CHILD THAT YOUR EX- MEMBER GOES ONTO ASSAULT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY, SUE.

But, hey- don't think about it....just keep singing your song..........

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barbiedoll
Dear Talamasca.

I dont have a lot of time at the moment to go into EVERYTHING but i dont mind sharing my experiences with the Jesus Christians.

The time that i spent with the JC was filled with pumping the bible into me and getting out books!

I would wake up at about 7am, meet at 8am for breakfast and first meeting of the day, where we shared dreams, thoughts and emails. All emails were read out and things from the forum (s). Then a study taken from one of Dave's teachings. Then at approx 10am start distributing. Break for lunch, usually subway. Then more distributing. Because i worked with Sue we would finish at about 3pm ready to meet Danny from School. We then did some bin raiding and cooked dinner and all met up again for dinner. Most evenings were spent together. First everyone would look at thier emails and add to the forum. We would then usually have a game of some kind. Either Mafia (which i loved BTW) or a crd game or something similar. Then bed time at about 9-9.30.

That was a usual day with the Jesus Christians. I did not do any community work, help the poor, help the sick or homeless. I did nothing for other people in love, i just had to spend time learning and getting books out. Towards the end of my time with them i hurt my back very badly and could not and did not want, to get books out. So i did NOTHING!

I have no idea where ALL the money goes. Some is spent on vehicles, a little amount on food. Essentials that cant be found in the bins that day. Obviously a lot is spent on the actual books. They come from India so the shipping costs are paid for. The rental of the garages to store the books. Pocket money for everyone in the UK team. To be fair i did always get my train fair paid for, out of my donations. But actually i did not make very much money! I was told by Sue that i "would one day be a good distributor" but actually i neverknew what was more important, getting the books out or getting the money in!

As far as i am aware no-one in the UK team claims benifits, but honestly i have no idea. I was told they dont but that was it, no other discussion was made about it.

As for theological debates... well i didnt really argue much, i was so keen to take it all in i just believed what was being said. Most of the time anyway, if i did question anything then i would be quoted Jesus' teachings and nothing else was said about it.

Discussions about "the mark of the beast" and "people marked for division" and who had upset them were daily topics. They did not hold back on thier slating of others and i did not hear of anything being said in love for anyone outside of the group. Even my friends were slated and i was encouraged to cut them out of my life and cause arguments with them.

It is true one is encouraged to not have contact with their friends and family. I could tell you many stories of occasions when i had arguments with my family and my friends. But as i said i dont have a lot of time or energy. ( I am burying my grandmother tomorrow)

I hope this helps, please feel free to ask me anything else. I wont be online tomorrow but im sure i will be soon.

Hope everyone is well.

I also hope that the Jesus Christians are well and start to think independantly soon. Especially you Sue!

Love Kirstie

p.s Egypt Eira... I have never once said anything bad about Cherry, she is a very nice person who is caught up in Dave's lies and deception. That goes for all of them. They are actually all very nice people who, if Dave was not thier leader, would have a really good community. If they just changed some of what they do and how they see others they could be a very Christian community.

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dsm
This is not a cult that uses terrorist language but they use tactics that train people to be willing to inflict physical pain on innocent people as a means of punishing others (offenders are given the choice of being whipped or letting an innocent party take the whipping) and while looking into their online presence, I happened to come across an extremely disturbing set of supportive site-links between David McKay and true Islamic warfare. As soon as I commented on the existence of that bizarre connection, one of the cult defenders jumped in with demands that the word "terrorist" be removed from the discussion.



Obviously, they do not want this possible connection coming up in online searches.

Here is a link to the original discussion and the terrorism posts on pp 435-436:

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Blackhat
David,

If you collected followers of your own age group, nobody would mind. But you don't. Because all those of your own age group can see through you. Or they fear you because of past abuses to themselves or others they have known over the years. Word spreads fast around the old crew. There are no new converts in your own age group in the scope of things for you.

So you seek out adolescents, which to my mind is a kind of "Spiritual Paedophilia". Have I just defined a new form of abuse?

A.S.P. (asp - a kind of snake) -- Adolescent Spiritual Predators -- the Serpents in the Garden.

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Apollo

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barbiedoll
Dear Talamasca.

I dont have a lot of time at the moment to go into EVERYTHING but i dont mind sharing my experiences with the Jesus Christians.

The time that i spent with the JC was filled with pumping the bible into me and getting out books!

I would wake up at about 7am, meet at 8am for breakfast and first meeting of the day, where we shared dreams, thoughts and emails. All emails were read out and things from the forum (s). Then a study taken from one of Dave's teachings. Then at approx 10am start distributing. Break for lunch, usually subway. Then more distributing. Because i worked with Sue we would finish at about 3pm ready to meet Danny from School. We then did some bin raiding and cooked dinner and all met up again for dinner. Most evenings were spent together. First everyone would look at thier emails and add to the forum. We would then usually have a game of some kind. Either Mafia (which i loved BTW) or a crd game or something similar. Then bed time at about 9-9.30.

That was a usual day with the Jesus Christians. I did not do any community work, help the poor, help the sick or homeless. I did nothing for other people in love, i just had to spend time learning and getting books out. Towards the end of my time with them i hurt my back very badly and could not and did not want, to get books out. So i did NOTHING!

I have no idea where ALL the money goes. Some is spent on vehicles, a little amount on food. Essentials that cant be found in the bins that day. Obviously a lot is spent on the actual books. They come from India so the shipping costs are paid for. The rental of the garages to store the books. Pocket money for everyone in the UK team. To be fair i did always get my train fair paid for, out of my donations. But actually i did not make very much money! I was told by Sue that i "would one day be a good distributor" but actually i neverknew what was more important, getting the books out or getting the money in!

As far as i am aware no-one in the UK team claims benifits, but honestly i have no idea. I was told they dont but that was it, no other discussion was made about it.

As for theological debates... well i didnt really argue much, i was so keen to take it all in i just believed what was being said. Most of the time anyway, if i did question anything then i would be quoted Jesus' teachings and nothing else was said about it.

Discussions about "the mark of the beast" and "people marked for division" and who had upset them were daily topics. They did not hold back on thier slating of others and i did not hear of anything being said in love for anyone outside of the group. Even my friends were slated and i was encouraged to cut them out of my life and cause arguments with them.

It is true one is encouraged to not have contact with their friends and family. I could tell you many stories of occasions when i had arguments with my family and my friends. But as i said i dont have a lot of time or energy. ( I am burying my grandmother tomorrow)

I hope this helps, please feel free to ask me anything else. I wont be online tomorrow but im sure i will be soon.

Hope everyone is well.

I also hope that the Jesus Christians are well and start to think independantly soon. Especially you Sue!

Love Kirstie

p.s Egypt Eira... I have never once said anything bad about Cherry, she is a very nice person who is caught up in Dave's lies and deception. That goes for all of them. They are actually all very nice people who, if Dave was not thier leader, would have a really good community. If they just changed some of what they do and how they see others they could be a very Christian community.

Very interesting indeed!

So this is the day to day life of the Jesus Christians British branch. No community work and no work to help the poor, sick or homeless. Their average day consists of obsessing over the forums, obsessing over ''Apostle'' David's teachings, playing games and of course selling ''Apostle'' David's literature.

It's clear that the ultimate goal of anyone becoming a Jesus Christian is to become a better salesperson. Ultimately that is how you will win the respect of your fellow cult members which is very very sad.