Dave has finally responded to my question.

Quote
Blackhat
"I kept waiting for some quotes from JESUS, but there were none.

So my question is this:

If you are so into JESUS, and what he said, why do you have a banner which quotes DAVE, and not JESUS?"

Quote
Dave
"Latest gripe on the hate site has to be the ultimate in ad hominem attacks, and there are several of them whipping themselves up into a frenzy over it too. Good ole Anita started it. She is upset that all of the quotes that appear at the top of our home page are (supposedly) written by me. Quite apart from the fact that they are not all written by me, and quite apart from the fact that they don't have the names of who did write them, the point is, what does it matter who said it, if the message itself is a good one?

Go on, Anita, just keep shooting the messengers. Maybe it will exempt you from the message... not!"

Dave, maybe not all of the quotes are yours. I suspect most of them are. In case you missed it, my point was that if your group is so into JESUS, how come none of the quotes are from JESUS?

And now I ask, since I asked how come none of the quotes are from JESUS, why did you respond about how they are not all from you?

Why didn't you respond to the part about why none of them are from JESUS?

You say

Quote
Dave
"the point is, what does it matter who said it, if the message itself is a good one?"

So whether Casey or Jinny or you or JESUS said it, it's all good?

And you don't quote JESUS once in your rolling banner?

Hello?

I think you are demonstrating that JESUS isn't that important to you after all...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2010 08:40PM by Blackhat.

..."what does it matter who said it, if the message is a good one"..... while this may be true, it would though seem to me that

what does matters is heeding the "good messages" the JC's purportedly champion, and NOT simply trying to entice people to read EVEN more of David's diatribes through the links to the nauseous self-importance that his writings reek of.....for example,

"For the sincere, there is always the nagging possibility that we could be wrong"

(is of course another one of David's "Freudian slips" where he reveals what he truly believes in his vainglorious dementia, in all its pathetic self-idolatory, that only David, and those subject to him, in his empire are "sincere" before God...)

and in order to entrap those considering "membership" he employs a circular argument (copied from the recruitment strategies of the Children of God) that the "doubts" anyone may ever hold about the JesusChristians are simply the natural "minor consequences" of their overall sincerity, (the doubts thus becoming "illusory").......is outright manipulation from which David hopes to gain the lives (and the lifesavings) of those he can dupe to entertain membership.....

......deceptive manipulation that is utterly Satanic, not Christlike in the slightest, in character.

(...sigh!) You're insane, David McKay!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2010 11:16PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

In a cult, abusive organization, or abusive relationship it does not matter if the information presented is true. If it is negative about the group or any member of the group, then you cannot say it. Usually such negative information will be will be labeled as slander, and if one persists in speaking it or writing it one can be disciplined severely, ultimately with expulsion from the group, or, if one is an outsider speaking ill about or being at all critical of the group, one can be demonized, dehumanized, poked fun at, humiliated, or what have you.

Careful study of the articles posted on the Jesus Christians' web site, as well as some of the newer articles being published via their forum, will reveal a lot of talk about their mentality; they all say something to the effect of, "allegiance to one another," support(ing) one another," work(ing) together," and "obey(ing) the rules." DM does not quite write, "We must support one another regardless of what any of us does," but that could easily be implied from what he does write. I see this theme over and over again in the Jesus Christians teachings. Here's a quote from Mr. McKay's The Pizza Parable, an interesting parable of unity vs. individuality (since a pizza is one, yet several pieces):

All who wish to develop into true leaders must first learn how to follow, and to wait patiently for the right time to step out.

In cult groups like the Jesus Christians it is essential to live in "unity" with the other members, and especially with the leader(s). It is a twisted interpretation of Psalm 133:1-3 that is the "glue" that will hold such a group together in most cases. It is taught that if the group does not live together in unity, then The Lord will not bless the group. Leaders of cults and authoritarian groups (again, the Jesus Christians are a typical example of this) do not recognize that there can be unity without uniformity.

In practice, however, the "unity" that is promoted in cult groups such as the Jesus Christians is really "uniformity." Members must believe alike, think alike, talk alike, and often even look alike. Divergences from even minor points of doctrine and practice are usually not allowed. When it is allowed, those who think differently are not permitted to express their differences publicly. If they do, there are consequences to pay. For the Jesus Christians, aren't those consequences called "grievance meetings?"

As human beings we (or at least, most of us) need to be in relationship to other people. We need others as friends, confidants, lovers, etc. to offer us affirmation, solace, correction, fellowship, etc. In normal, healthy relationships, however, we also need time and space for ourselves occasionally so we can obtain rest and spend time in reflection. We will on occasion voluntarily give up our personal agenda on occasion to meet an emergency, whether it concerns our family, out community, or our nation. But once the emergency has passed we go back to our normal lives again.

In abusive group like the Jesus Christians this personal agenda is seldom if ever granted; the member is almost always, if not always, giving up his own right to privacy and the pursuit of his own goals in order to pursue the goals of the group and to submit to the agenda of his authority.

Finally, the process of group building, when it becomes abusive, creates a system that is mutually addictive to both founder(s) and followers. The followers need the founder/leader/Divine Authority to make them feel that they are realizing the proffered goal; the founder/leader/Divine Authority needs his followers (some call them the leader's "narcissistic supply") to make him feel successful, powerful, and truly enlightened.

Verity E. wanted somebody to post this message of hers to this forum, and I guess that I have volunteered myself for the task. Here it is, the entire text, minus the emoticons. I hope that you are well, VE.

[jcs.xjcs.org]

One Davism I do not understand is WHY they want to boast of being persecuted......? What does that gain? Who wants to join a group that even sees them self as worthy of this mass hatred Davejc Image, Roland Image and Casey Image drone on about? (Now relax...the smilies are meant to show NO HATE)

Anyway, it's total BS....and really rather freaky in an uncool way. What person would run around whining how hated they are? Would that attract new friends or would it make people take a good hard look at why so many hold this person at bay? Surely people are going to wonder WHY? Normal people don't assume they are hated. And many people are going to explore what this “person” has done to make themselves the target of such widespread hated and it's NOT going to be something mundane like baking pink cookies and drinking an extra glass of wine....it's going to be things like BEING HATEFUL towards many many people, sowing seeds of discord among families. public lying and libel and cruel whippings, vicious malicious mock trials meant to hurt and cause families to crumble beyond repair, it’s constantly being involved in some sordid sicky stupid drama that makes no sense to the rest of the free sane world....AND BENEFITS NO ONE BUT THEMSELVES. The "masses" are going to deem that there is good reason to hold this person as "suspect" and some are going to "hate" this person or at least hate their actions, based on their treatment of others. One will assume they will treat ALL people badly and avoid them like the plague so YOU YOURSELF don't end up hurt by them.

YOU....Davejc....Roland....Ross....Casey are TELLING people how hate-filled and hateful you are by the way you speak to and about people on your forums where you HIDE. Most especially, you show your true hearts without love or mercy by how you have treated people in the past and you STILL have NO REMORSE...do you get it that Joe now has lost his family? Do you see Cherry (and Davejc), missing out on knowing Grandkids not to mention a son that still offers a cup of tea and an olive branch? No… just this pompous, infected, supercilious arrogant attitude that makes you think you are somehow entitled to act like total arseholes but YOU whine for people to “be nice” to you. But you really revel in the negative comments so you can ghoulishly carry on your victim stance when really YOU are the rabid wolves.
Frankly, the core of this forum...the members that you have REALLY affected and damaged personally (not me) but the x members and families of x members, those who you shun and libel daily. What about the time you have robbed people from spending with family and friends and the cruel way you have dumped your own people WITH NOTHING when they dared to speak up? That makes you bloody worthy of hatred in the books of many people yet YOU ARE NOT HATED BY THE CORE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM-you have been shown mercy and pity and an olive branch in some cases....sure people are annoyed at what you continue to say and do but THE HATE IS IN YOUR OWN DARK MINDS AND IT BREEDS AND GROWS ON YOUR FORUM AND YOU ARE MAKING YOUR REMAINING MEMBERS A BIT NUTTY WITH IDEAS OF MURDER AND PLOTS AGAINST YOU. Most people would likely just be happy if you could cut that silliness out-stop reading Ninja Comics or whatever is feeding Roland Image et al these warped ideas....and just straighten up and fly right...help the poor....preach what you want but stop F-ing with people's families and stop spreading a message of misery and gloom for the whole world except 20 some Davidites!!! No one "hates" you here...I've never felt such compassion, mixed with some twisted sense of entertainment at times, as when I read these nutty posts about “hate and murder”....it's in your heads and eventually you are all going to be in some deep dark depression requiring meds or long rests in quiet places, if you carry on with such madness.

Just stop it.

(FYI-Dave'sjc's-slander is spoken or signed in some fleeting manner- so when you complain about being slandered on forums, you mean to say libel-libel is written word---I am sure you want to correct yourself Davejc-ye who must correct others always)
[www.ehow.com] ... ectly.html
I know how you lot love a good link for proof so I added a couple for you, to hopefully avoid a Davejc lecture on how wrong I am…..or rather how correct he is…..! Also, I know you jc’s LOVE WIKI where you have clearly LIBELED Kevin, as he doesn’t run this site.
[en.wikipedia.org] ... _and_libel
So Wiki yourselves silly and figure out exactly what abuses you are suffering…along with MURDER AND MAYHEM AND THREAT OF FORCED NAKIDD LUGE JUMPING…..*Sisi chases Casey with slobbery church lady kisses and shaking her pink cookies* Image

One Davism I do not understand is WHY they want to boast of being persecuted......?

What does that gain?


Dear Verity,

In addition to the childish fantasy of a certain "brat" (...the the louder he screams, and the more he works himself into a tantrum, the more likely he thinks others will be persuaded of the "injustices" he loudly claims he has suffered) boasting of being "persecuted", serves as (mis)biblical purchase over the minds of those, who ensnared in service to him, need to feel that they are "noticed" by God, in their "struggle for the faith"......it is then, just so much in group psychological maintenance, that David regularly indulges in...(please see Zeusors preceding posting)

Quoting Hassan ("Combatting Cult Mind Control" ParkStreet Press 1988) p.79-80

"Even the most complex cult doctrines ultimately reduce reality into two basic poles: black versus white; good versus evil; spiritual world versus physical world; us versus them.

There is never room for pluralism. The doctrine allows no outside group to be recognized as valid (good, Godly, real) because that would threaten the cult's monopoly on truth. There is also no room for interpretation or deviation.....

Pet devils vary from group to group......Devils are certain to take on the bodies of parents, friends, ex-members, reporters and anyone else who is critical of the group. The "huge conspiracies" working to thwart the group are, of course, proof of its tremendous importance..........


Members are made to feel part of an elite corps of mankind. This feeling of being special, of participating in the most important acts in human history, with a vanguard of committed believers, is strong emotional glue to keep people sacrificing and working hard."



David probably incontrovertibly "turned" psychopathic in his teenage years following the death of his father, when he became fixated on gaining the public adulation that he knew a "great man of God", he was sure, would justly deserve........

....if only he could somehow persuade people to listen to him, as he knew they should...

.....then the Children of God taught him how!

Who can heal David now?

He won't turn himself in for treatment of his own accord, none of the other JC's would have the nounce to be able see through him, those that did, having already been expunged from the community, no one external to the organization can "access" David....."nice" Kevin (despite his best efforts) will never be able to reach him that I can see.....

Barring some spectacular intervention on the part of God, I suspect David will perish, as sick in mind, as he ever was......while his empire may stagger on for a few more years....He is effectively close to "finished" as a living soul with whom any external source could genuinely communicate with.....no matter that the body (only just) lives and breathes, little longer!

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
David probably incontrovertibly "turned" psychopathic in his teenage years following the death of his father, when he became fixated on gaining the public adulation that he knew a "great man of God", he was sure, would justly deserve........

In point of fact, DM's father died at the age of 79, on April 24, 1998. This was right around the time of the Split, which occurred on good Friday of that year (10 April to be exact). So exactly two weeks after the Split, DM's father died. DM would have been 53 at the time, far past his teenage years and already a clearly established psychopath.

In my opinion, anybody who thinks that David can be reached through logic and reason is still letting DM have control over the situation. This cooperative move will not elicit any cooperation from DM himself; he will, rather, exploit (as his history has shown) the situation to his own benefit time and time again. People who are consistently and unconditionally cooperative can be exploited and taken advantage of. When British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain tried to prevent war in the 1930s by cooperating with Hitler, it gave Hitler the opportunity to become more aggressive. By continuing to try and "reason" with DM, they are making a mistake, and letting him have the control.

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
He won't turn himself in for treatment of his own accord, none of the other JC's would have the nounce to be able see through him, those that did, having already been expunged from the community, no one external to the organization can "access" David....."nice" Kevin (despite his best efforts) will never be able to reach him that I can see.....

Barring some spectacular intervention on the part of God, I suspect David will perish, as sick in mind, as he ever was......while his empire may stagger on for a few more years....He is effectively close to "finished" as a living soul with whom any external source could genuinely communicate with.....no matter that the body (only just) lives and breathes, little longer!

Mal and Oerlikon: Kevin's got his own (hidden) agenda, and "Free Discussion" is not part of it. Nor apparently is it part of Kevin's agenda to educate and inform the public about his father and the cult. Really, I do not think that he actually believes that he can reach DM through reason. He must know that that approach is bound for futility, and he must realize that his father is a sick and destructive personality, just like the rest of us do. He must knows this better than any of us. So what is the real agenda there? I've got my theories about that.

Dear Oelikon,

Thank you for that correction....I must be misrembering something else that I read.....while I was a member of the (then) "Christians" Davids' mother wrote twice (David reading the letters aloud to those in the group in order to demonstrate the "struggles" he had had with a unsupportive mother unappreciative of the "Godly work" in which he was engaged....(of course, she was a mere "systemite" wasn't she!!)....)and I cannot remember any mention of his father in those letters)....Had his father simply "given up on him" altogether by that point, while his mother continued to hold out some hope that David could somehow be "talked out" of his self absorbed lunacy?

Dear Brian,

I would personally not want to delve into Kevins' motives.....It doesn't seem relevant to exposing McKay as the sham that he has become. I suspect that I would act in much the same manner were I to be Kevin.....hoping against hope...there once was a warm, witty and humane David McKay with some genuine self deprecatory humour and capable of sharing knowlegeable interest in the society around him.....while that David has "died".....still one would like to believe in what once was, if given half the chance.

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Brian,

I would personally not want to delve into Kevins' motives.....It doesn't seem relevant to exposing McKay as the sham that he has become. I suspect that I would act in much the same manner were I to be Kevin.....hoping against hope...there once was a warm, witty and humane David McKay with some genuine self deprecatory humour and capable of sharing knowlegeable interest in the society around him.....while that David has "died".....still one would like to believe in what once was, if given half the chance.

It is relevant to our discussion insofar as his spreading of disinformation about certain details of his father's past in order to confound myself and other researchers and investigators. He seems to try and thwart anybody that he cannot control, and this actually stifles any free discussion that may have otherwise taken place. I've been told things through various (and more reliable) sources that directly contradicts certain information that he has published via his online support group and frankly I trust my other sources over him any day. I do respect the man, but do not respect his obscurantism.