Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: September 10, 2009 12:28AM

Yes I must say that "Kyoo" or placating Davids "feelings" somehow fails to really draw my interest....

.......nor I suspect the interest of many others external to the core membership

.... then again that was the always the intent of having Glenn post, wasn't it...surreptitiously have him subvert the direction of the conversation....

You know I think I've called him a "dog" somewhere (or so he has complained to me), but I must say that I have to repent of that now!

(...really he's more like a little threadworm now that I come to think of it,

feeding off Davids shit, then emerging out of the protective warmth of his anus, to spread it around....)

On a more positive note,

It's VERY encouraging to hear of how well Ash and Grace are doing in general and how constructively they are spending their time (now that they have the opportunity to choose how to spend their time!) The Catholic Workers are a very reputable organization and I must congratulate Grace for the contribution she is making there. Most impressive. Ashes protests against Government policies are really a healthy sign of someone who is "re-engaging" with the world around him and finding companionship with other like minds (who are not setting out to manipulate him for their own self-promotion)....really a delight to see!

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: September 26, 2009 03:05AM

Some selected “clippings”….[]

Re: Restraining orders and other developments
by Dave » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:07 pm
The latest news is that a judgment has been made against John, and the case has been settled. Now, perhaps, the U.S. team can throw itself more fully into outreach/inreach without the distractions of the court case... although I expect that we will seek to keep the issues which led to it alive.

Yes I’ve no doubt you will continue attempting to “milk” this for all its' worth, David…however,

Your grandstanding remains an “interesting” observation…from the man whose failed to get even the most simple criminal conviction up against those he falsely accused of attempted murder…and who then failed to reap the “millions” he was seeking to wring out of Joes family, in a fraudulent civil claim…in fact pulling in such a miserable amount, that it effectively amounted to an award of “contemptuous damages” (the court disdains to support the claims of the plaintiff other than in a way that expresses their contempt of the fairness of the claim)…

…the futile failings of a fatuous “failure” …..still for some one in Davids miserable postion….one must look for the “positives” somehow, mustn’t one…..

The strange thing is that they could simplify so much of this just by admitting that they did the wrong thing and asking for forgiveness. It's what the Christian message is supposed to be all about; but instead, they continue to soldier on with their lies and proud resistance. It's good to know that they are reading their own statements here on this forum and that they have enough conscience to know that it is not making them look very good!

The predictable thing is that David would simply seek to mask his own vindictive vendetta, with the ridiculous assertion that Christ condoned such behaviour….

Their statements look fine to me….the attempt to sow self doubt here is so transparent….only Davids’ own twisted mind (and those minds in servitude to him) could possibly, dare imagine to themselves that he has “scored some points” here….

by Ross » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:41 am
I think it is a pretty good illustration of what it will be like on judgement day. Some people will go to hell, and never be sorry for their sins
Blessed are you when men shall hate you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for following me.- Jesus!

So-o-o-o right, Ross.....and the converse (which is what applies to you) is equally as true!!

Cursed are you when men shall hate you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you truly for NOT following me - Jesus

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: CTEL ()
Date: October 03, 2009 02:36PM


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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: October 03, 2009 10:29PM

Jesus Christians Newsletter #116, October 2009


The biggest news this month is that we have a new forum! Well, it's all the
same old posts, but with a whole new format, and a point system, which can be
used to buy rewards from our reward page. But to get to the forum, you now
have to go to our homepage: []
and click on the "forum" button at the top of the page.
Please do come, join, and post.

New articles on our web site include ones on Forgiveness, and Non-Violence.
You can see them here:




Things have settled down somewhat on the legal front. A settlement was reached
with Joe's step-brother, John, and a permanent restraining order against him
has been approved by the courts.

Unfortunately, Sheila and Jared both evaded a dozen attempts by sheriffs to
serve them with a notice to appear at the hearing. Sheila is now contacting
relatives of other members, in an attempt to cause further problems for the

The L.A. team had a nice visit from Grace and Eric. Grace showed that she
hasn't lost her touch, getting out more than 50 books in an hour and a half;
several members went on a dumpster dive with the two of them, and they all
enjoyed some nice food and fellowship as well.

We have had a major set-back with a shipment of 50,000 "More Than Just a Band"
DVDs from India. Even though the DVD is our own, we overlooked the fact that
the company producing it probably does pirated DVDs (which are all the rage in
India), and so Customs seized the shipment in California, wanting proof that we
had them printed by a licensed DVD producer. We are now pleading with them to
see if we can keep the DVDs from being destroyed. Please pray that things work
out with that.

Jeremy's twin brother, Jayme, has returned from a prolonged stint working with
a team in the UK and Ireland. The US guys are all excited to have him back.


Teaching English resumed in Kenya after the holidays. Two more teachers are
close to winning prizes, but the deadline for achieving their goal is very

Two new volunteers have arrived: a Kenyan man from Karl's area, and a Dutch
woman (who brought us some fabulous Dutch cheese - so of course we made pizza).

We had a one-day work camp with 25 volunteers from a Kenyan organisation. Ten
different nationalities were represented. They worked in the garden, fixed
fences, repaired books for the reading program, organised sets of flash cards,
did some painting and helped care for the animals. It was a great day and a
half. They also enjoyed sleeping on mattresses and Simon's Special Spaghetti!
(No, they didn't sleep on Simon's spaghetti!)

Simon has also been busy preparing artwork for a revamp of some of the early
readers. Christine has worked with Simon to produce some excellent artwork.

Robin and Fran have been putting in long hours on a complete revamp of our web
site, which includes points for various activities on the site, and a "reward
page" where people can "spend" their points to get some interesting JC

A school in Australia donated $1600 for a water pump and toilet block for a
school in Kenya. Fran has been busy supervising the work, which is now almost

Giddy has recently enlisted the help of another Kenyan (Tim) to get the books
out in Nairobi, and Casey continues to get out about 800 books a week on top of
all his other commitments. A pinched (sciatic?) nerve in his hip has hampered
his marathon training, although he is still planning to have a go at the

Bob, Karl, Fran and Simon went on a successful outreach to Nakuru, which is on
the road to Nairobi. Other weekly distributing forays to Eldoret and Kitale
have also been very succesful for the participating teams.

Karl's ankle is recovering from when he severed his tendon some months ago and
he has recently started running in our phantom race competition again. He is
still not at full strength, but has been able to improve his time each week.
Unfortunately, the heavy rains have turned our track into a steeple-chase,
creating a rather large pool of water on one corner.

We're still getting a bucket of chokos each day from our one choko vine. Kim
has invented a halfway decent 'choko crumble' to use some of it, but we also
share it with neighbours.

We harvested some of our arrowroot plants, and have a few new chicks, with two
dozen more eggs being sat on by a couple of hens! It wasn't really our plan to
have so many chicks but we were a bit late in organising a chicken dinner out
of our young roosters!

Pipes are finally being laid to provide piped water for our village. It will
be a few months before it is up and running, but we ourselves will not be
dependent on it, as we have plenty of rain water tanks at our centre.

Millions of Kenyans are still relying on relief food due to prolonged droughts
in parts of the country, with thousands of head of cattle dying every week due
to lack of available grazing areas. Nevertheless, heavier than usual rains are
expected to hit the country in a few weeks, causing further devastation as it
floods areas and washes away the dusty top soil.


Barry has suffered a relapse of pain due to the slipped disc in his back. He
had to see the doctor for steroid injections and had to go to hospital when the
pain was most severe. He had to spend a lot of time lying flat on his back,
although things have improved over the past week. Please pray for him.

Dave has been working with the Kenya team to re-write some of the Easy English
books to make the transition from the easy readers to the longer books easier.
They hope to have six new books ready by the end of the year.


We have just taken delivery of another 50,000 DVDs, printed within the U.K.
This greatly speeds up the turn-around time from order to delivery, and may be
the way to go in future.

Alf and Alan had a pleasant visit with Alan's youngest sister (he has six
sisters) and also with Alf's mother and her partner. Alf went on a 5 mile run
with his mother who was training for a work charity event.

Paul and Ulrike had another nice visit with an Irish couple in their 80s who
have been quite supportive. They have distributed many of our books to their

In the Republic of Ireland they visited a young father with four children who,
with his wife, is preparing to live more simply. They have been fellowshipping
with Mennonites. He is also going out to meet people on the streets in order
to share his faith.

Paul and Ulrike also had a couple of friendly visits with Dearbhla who met us
on the internet.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: October 03, 2009 10:43PM

Both the JC site and the other site need stuff to feed off of. They need a controversy in order to sustain themselves. David deliberately baits people through his posts and says things to elicit a response. Most of them fall for it every time.

So as for me, I am happy to give things a break for a while. I never look at the JC forum anymore and have not in done so in weeks. It will be interesting to see whether they both run out of steam. I guess only time will tell, and will continue to post a little here, a little there, as I see fit. The above newsletter I posted for informational purposes only, so that interested persons can know what the JCs are doing at present. Goodbye.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: October 04, 2009 12:27PM

Dear Zeuszor,

Thank you for posting the above information....I agree with you. I have heard that David claimed somewhere that our criticism of him...only made him that more "well known"...while this was clearly no less than one his usual transparent attempts to discourage public discussion (and hence leave him to prey in private on those who don't have enough background to be able to see through his false pretences)....I do think that what he attracts now (e.g. Glenn in Melbourne) is almost pitiable enough to be able to "do the job" (of persuading those who may be considering membership that he is a fraud) for us....hence have been putting far less time into posting of late.

I understand David will never stop engaging in fraud and deceit. From his perspective, even if membership ever fell to "one"....that would still be ONE enslaved in service to him (i.e. still better than "none") and the proceeds from the crimes he engages in would still continue to "exceed" the losses. David is utterly faithless, hence vainly thinks that there will never be any "spiritual" consequences to his behaviour....the scriptures are simply opportunities to delude others into committing to him...they actually have no independent meaning other than what David can prostitute them for....thus my only interest is in warning those who may be tempted to "experiment" with the JC's...

"Living in fear of Davids' condemnation"...and in the hope of flittingly gaining his matter how it is NOT "living by faith".....hence none of his followers live by faith in any sense of the meaning of the scripture, and I think that they will find it increasingly difficult to find individuals willing to commit to them, when they continue to attract the rubbish that they do, following them like the floating flotsam of self bloated turds on the top of the sewage they spout.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 04, 2009 06:25PM

DAVE.......We have had a major set-back with a shipment of 50,000 "More Than Just a Band"
We have had a major set-back with a shipment of 50,000 "More Than Just a Band"
DVDs from India. Even though the DVD is our own, we overlooked the fact that
the company producing it probably does pirated DVDs (which are all the rage in
India), and so Customs seized the shipment in California, wanting proof that we
had them printed by a licensed DVD producer. We are now pleading with them to
see if we can keep the DVDs from being destroyed. Please pray that things work
out with that.

Apostate's response on XJC site
I saw this in the JC newsletter, and thought to respond.

Besides the Customs aspect of what is occurring with the DVD's one has to wonder when they are going to start owning up to actually running a business of the same ilk they complain about with multi national corporations who use cheap labour to make their items which are also flogged off for a profit in the developed world. Why would Dave expect people to lend their support by "praying" for him to do that. Does he pray that Nike can get their stuff through Customs more quickly.

His comment "we overlooked the fact that the company producing it probably does pirated DVDs". Well, I suppose the next time you will choose not to overlook it to turn a buck, eh. Playing innocently ignorant of the type of company he was using does not fly with me as I know he has used black marketeers in the past for money exchanges. It is obvious that Customs would not permit Dave to support a pirate movie making company in India, especially as some of the cash probably makes its way up to Afghanistan. Get real.

No, Dave is being asked to account for his unethical behaviour yet again, and his recourse, as usual, is to play the "victim" card asking his followers and supporters to pray for him. It is just something new everyday with him. We do not need to have a history to recall with Dave, he will give us something fresh to show he really doesn't give a damn.

Well said Apostate!

Maybe Dave should also tell the Customs authorities that he imports books and DVD's under numerous names and addresses associated with the group, rather than his own name or his business name 'Jesus Christians'

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: October 04, 2009 06:50PM

Oh...I AM certainly praying David!

....but can you guess what for!

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: October 06, 2009 01:24AM

It is encouraging to note that in inverse proportion to the VAST amounts (50,000 DVD's?) of self propaganda that the JesusChristians disseminate, that have dismally failed to win converts to themselves in anything like similar numbers to the vile promotional material they spew out....while I can see that David certainly is part of Gods wider plan as one of the many (rather unimportant) false prophets of the end times.....

Perhaps David would be able to reinvent himself as a slightly more important false prophet if just took the time to brush up on the false claims that he makes for himself...

...lets take the JC "statement of faith"

" A live-by-faith, work-for-God-not-money Christian community. We distribute Bible-based comics and other tracts, and do free (voluntary) work. Against hypocrisy and self-righteousness in the church. In favour of honesty, humility and love."

The literature quotas, DVD's and other volumes of hoopla clearly indicate that the JesusChristians work in a commercial business, that sells it's "beliefs" (most of them reworked COG material that David filched from his years there). The JesusChristians generate serious cash flow for themselves (or more accurately largely for Davids' "self"), by simple observation of their activities. The accounts are not independently audited nor are they held in common as the scriptures command (Acts 2:44-5). The JesusChristians, hypocritically consider themselves more "righteous" than established churches with established public audits and due process. Consider the passage below

David McKay 28th June

So we've had two very serious physical attacks on our members in the last year (Roland and Reinhard), and I expect that there will be more. They take encouragement from each other, and by two miraculous coincidences we have been made aware that Malcolm and my own brother are helping to fuel the hate campaign as well. If these people, who know full well that we have not done anything worthy of the hatred they feel, can be so callous, how much more callous can the general public be. It is just so easy for them to convince themselves that we must deserve what we are getting.

The "hate campaign" is a loaded term, designed to denigrate critics rightfully calling McKay to account. Neither Rob nor myself have advocated violence against the JesusChristians. Describing as "callous" is simply the desperation of a smear campaign. The injuries against Reinhard were repeatedly overstated by McKay, as evident in findings of the criminal and civil cases that he either lost or was awarded contemptous damages for.

David is in favour of dishonesty, his own self-importance and in his insipid writing patently reveals himself to be a spitefully hateful old goat...who teaches other members of the JesusChristians to applaud him for this behaviour and to emulate him..

but all the tracts, DVDs and media spin in the world won't mean jackshit to him on his deathbed,
reflecting on his betrayal of his own family and how widely he is despised.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: October 07, 2009 05:13AM

Dear Zeuszor,

Thank you for posting the above information....I agree with you.

You're welcome, Malcolm.

The JCs are little more than the McKay Family Business, and DM himself is really just a piece of trash, frankly.

Here is something I that wrote last winter, about nine months ago; I thought it good enough (if I may say so myself) to recycle for use here.

The way I see it, the Jesus Christians really do not know what they believe, other than that 1) They are personally and spiritually superior to the rest of The Church, as well as to society in general and 2) (related to 1) that everybody is a hypocrite except for them. Jesus Christian belief and world view seem to pretty much boil down to those two points.

The Jesus Christians' members like to freely spread the thought amongst themselves that no one on the earth holds a valid view point on any subject except for members of their group.

Most people would (and do) respond to that arrogant idea by simply saying, “they’re crazy.”

I am of the opinion that Mr. and Mrs. McKay are very disappointed that they didn't become major "players" who got to lead a "movement" of their own.

From Armageddon for Beginners:

Solomon was a good man; but he can't hold a candle to Christ. Nor can anyone who was ever born. As Christ said in prophecies about the last days, people will find many replacements for the true Messiah. (Matthew 24:24) But when they do, their replacement (whoever it may be) becomes an antichrist. (I John 2:18; II John 6-7) The so-called Christian church would rather follow St. Paul, or the Pope, or Billy Graham, or, for that matter, Solomon, than to follow Christ.

See also The Fall of America, Just Do It! and Bin Raiders for writings about Billy Graham.

The Jesus Christians, in like manner, are following David McKay rather than following Christ.

But it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame, right?

David McKay is implying something in the above texts about how God chose Billy Graham to be an apostle and raise up communities, but Graham chose to defile his conscience in the pursuit of world renown as an evangelist. McKay is basically saying that Billy Graham loves power and fame more than his calling.

In talking in such a disparaging manner about Billy Graham, David McKay gives a really good definition of himself, as it is obvious to me that he loves power and acclaim.

However, the Jesus Christians' "know it all attitude" thankfully only puts people off, and attracts only a mere unfortunate few.

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