Dear Private Eyes,

I would personally prefer (if I may be so presumptuous in even asking you) that you keep your identity secret, without even giving David the slightest clue to go on...(Yes, I agree with you that the librarians in Broken Hill, could easily positively repute the idea that you are not acutally David Lowe...but why provide David with that information?)

...the histronics that we see coming through in David's writing (over dramatizing the "threats" to him...) is in part due to the pressure of the insecurity he feels these days, not being able to "identify" you.....once he has a name of any sort he will be able to then seek methods to "control" you (for example by threatening your employment in anyway that he can, falsely accusing you behind your back to your employer)...David is simply pyschotic and is conceptually dependant on the hierarchies he adores....

....where he can't "fit" you into into his world ("embittered former member", "doting minion", "worthless systemite parent") he feels very vulnerable....

....and why not just keep the pressure up..... !


(and anyway.....you shouldn't make mention of any personal details, Private Eyes.....as Blackhat has, to my horror and dismay, already disingenuously pointed out....we are ALL "Private Eyes".....Private Eyes being of course no more than a "cyber creation" that we, (the hateful, embittered, spiteful ex-members (and friends) that we are) have produced....(under the instructions of the Great Leader, His Holiness DL)

it's simply a conspiracy,

.....a secret conspiracy

....a secret, world conspiracy......against David McKay,

....a SECRET, WORLD CONSPIRACY against David McKay of forever scheming, Ninja-trained assassins, who clandestinely worship Satan and who manipulate the press and the general public, through the ancient Devilish black art of seance based, thought projection, glaring wildy, while laughing hysterically into the crystal balls from which we scry the future having rejected the truth of the Jesuschristians and thus now making ourselves subject to the whims and torment of the countless demons that possess us...(fading away into maniacal laughter)...hah, ha, ha ha ha!!

Dear Matilda,

Thank you very much for your recent informative postings. I'm grateful that you continue to be prepared to involve yourself, with such a small time loser as McKay, when clearly, vastly larger numbers suffered under Berg.

...and I also must thank Apostate for the enormous amount of work he would have put into rebutting the mindless spin of David McKay, on the earlier page. A fantastic effort!

I agree Zeusor that David may now (having failed to acquire any actual disciples out of "livingdonorsonline" or through the organ harvesting more generally) appears to be positioning himself to hijack another "issue" portraying himself as the "champion" of the poor and oppressed, unfairly persecuted religious minorities in the world..... with the hope of gaining undeserved credibility (and picking up some of the "disenchanted") for himself, along the way.....

This one's for you, David:

I see you, you see me
Watch you blowin' the lines when you're making a scene
Oh Dave, you've got to know
What my head overlooks
The senses will show to my heart
When it's watching for lies
You can't escape my
Private eyes
They're watching you
They see your every move
Private eyes
They're watching you
Private eyes
They're watching you watching you watching you watching you

You play with words you play with love
You can twist it around Davey that ain't enough
Cause Dave I'm gonna know
If you're letting me in or letting me go
Don't lie when you're hurting inside
cause you cant escape my
Private eyes
They're watching you
They see your every move
Private eyes
They're watching you
Private eyes
They're watching you watching you watching you watching you

Why you try to put up a front for me
I'm a spy but on your side you see
Slip on, into any disguise
Ill still know you
Look into my private eyes

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Matilda,

Thank you very much for your recent informative postings. I'm grateful that you continue to be prepared to involve yourself, with such a small time loser as McKay, when clearly, vastly larger numbers suffered under Berg.

...and I also must thank Apostate for the enormous amount of work he would have put into rebutting the mindless spin of David McKay, on the earlier page. A fantastic effort!

I agree Zeusor that David may now (having failed to acquire any actual disciples out of "livingdonorsonline" or through the organ harvesting more generally) appears to be positioning himself to hijack another "issue" portraying himself as the "champion" of the poor and oppressed, unfairly persecuted religious minorities in the world..... with the hope of gaining undeserved credibility (and picking up some of the "disenchanted") for himself, along the way.....

I have a hard copy of the entire LJR (Loving Jesus Revolution) series that matilda mentioned and will post it all ASAP if you like. Would that be helpful?

[www.xfamily.org]

It looks as if it's all there, anyway. But I have a copy of the original. Want to see it? Would it help at all?

It is in storage at the moment and I'd have to retrieve it, but can scan it all this weekend if you like.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2008 12:44PM by zeuszor.

Malcolm Quote:

"I would personally prefer (if I may be so presumptuous in even asking you) that you keep your identity secret, without even giving David the slightest clue to go on...(Yes, I agree with you that the librarians in Broken Hill, could easily positively repute the idea that you are not acutally David Lowe...but why provide David with that information?)"

Malcolm, because the Librarians don't actually know who I am, I felt relatively safe giving Dave that information. I thought it would at least demonstrate to Dave McKay, that I am not David Lowe. As a Christian, I feel deeply upset that everything I do, is blamed on David Lowe, simply because he chose to go to a CIFS seminar and has wrongly been identified as me. Even now that the reasons that David Lowe was there (nothing to do with the JC), have been revealed. Dave McKay persists in his posts about him.

I do plan to keep my identity secret and I do thank the various people who know who I am, for not revealing it. I have realised now that it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. It wouldn't assist David Lowe for example, because Dave McKay would simply write that I have taken over his password, etc. Which he is doing now anyway.

Dave can't stand the thought of being wrong or having to admit he is wrong. He is now suffering from selective amnesia, in an attempt to avoid addressing serious concerns raised regarding his background.

I am not surprised by his recent defence of various cult groups:

Bobby Kelly was initially given permission to travel with some JC members, but that permission was withdrawn when his relatives learnt more about the people he was travelling with. You will be aware that it t took a Court order and the Police to recover him. Despite what Dave may say, it is technically an abduction or kidnapping. It doesn't make any difference if the subject wanted to be with the group. An example is when one of the parents of a child separate and one decides to grab the child. Even though the child may wish to go with that parent, it is an abduction in the eyes of the law, if the parent doesn't have legal custody. In the Kelly case, the JC were defying a Court Order to return him. In that incident, Dave McKay even wrote to a Scientology front group to seek assistance.

The latest support of Falun Gong may be the latest newsworthy issue, I suggested he has been looking for. Feeding off the Olympics, etc. It will be interesting to see how that develops. The subject of Falun Gong is not as cut and dried as it may first appear. I am aware of some new research that has been done on the group and will try and find some links to share.

Zeuszor in regards to the Children of God, TFI information. I think it would be better to post the material on the Rick Ross thread regarding these groups and then provide a link to them. That way there is no confusion regarding what the Jesus Christians teach. I know there has been some concern expressed regarding your posts of the Davidvito video and also the comic illustrating pedophilia. I know you have just used these for illustrative purposes and to educate people regarding some of the background issues that are being discussed. I trust you will see this as a helpful suggestion and as a way of still meeting your need to educate, whilst not putting offside ex members, etc.

...because Dave McKay would simply write that I have taken over his password, etc. Which he is doing now anyway.

Dave can't stand the thought of being wrong or having to admit he is wrong. He is now suffering from selective amnesia, in an attempt to avoid addressing serious concerns raised regarding his background.

You know, I used to think that DM was relatively sane, sick to be sure, but able to keep himself together enough to present himself as somewhat "normal" when dealing with people . But, with this new round of paranoid conspiracy theory coming from him, you know, I get it now: he really is nuts. I mean, he doesn't even seem oriented anymore. This is astounding.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2008 02:35PM by zeuszor.

Here is a succint response from someone named Annette who has personal experience with the BCF and knowledge of the woman that Dave calls "dumb" (see [welikejesus.com])

RE: David Lowe on Four Corners

Would just like to point out a few things:
Helen Pomeroy did not divorce her husband. It was her husband who divorced her and even though she refused to sign the papers the divorce was granted. Her husband has since remarried. She has been refused access to her children and grandchildren.


So Dave are you going to remove your slander of Helen now?

Zeuszor I think that the link to the LJR will suffice. Both movements share one root but they are different groups with distinctive teachingsdespite the links.

It is probably best not to post the whole thing as it may confuse new readers.

Has Dave ever categorically condemned David Berg who wrote him that letter of commission or current Family leaders Karen Zerby and Steven Douglas Kelly. I have read vague criticisms but no condemnations and according to Freelance and his contacts in the Family (see p 68- 70) they were all meeting up in 2003 and happily praying for one another.

This is significant when you consider that the COG group usually pray against their detractors. One example here [www.exfamily.org]


I have been reading the 35 treaties again and think that there are now many others we could add to the original list. (p70) [forum.culteducation.com]



However a more pressing concern for Dave seems to be the persona of Private Eyes.
I would like to concur with Malcolm that we may all be Private Eyes.
I also think Dave deserves some hint as to PE's real identity. He has looked long enough. Forgive us PE.
We cant stand the thought of Dave agonising over this so are compelled to assist him here!

I make no claims, I just pose a question. Is this the one Dave is looking for?

[uk.youtube.com]


or does this help? [uk.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2008 08:55AM by matilda.

Dear Matilda,

Well that is true....Private Eyes is a master of disguises isn't he (.....I particularly like the David Lowe one!)

....while it hard to imagine what he must ultimately look like underneath it all, I somehow fancy that in reality, he must appear (and behave!) like something between a cross of "Dirty Harry" and "Lieutenant Colombo"....

...see for yourself in this recent footage secretly taken from one of the Redfern Quaker meetings, where an "unknown" figure crosses paths with David McKay, (desperately trying to pass himself off in drag)...

[uk.youtube.com]

Dave takes the time to ponder his position and obvious bitterness Source: [welikejesus.com]

I've been thinking a bit lately about my attitude toward Quakers in general. I remember that, for the short time that I was in the Children of God, I saw enough of the bitterness that some ex-members had that I prayed and asked God to help me not to become like that even if I did decide to leave.

I never prayed anything like that with the Quakers, probably because I've never heard of anyone leaving the Quakers and becoming bitter. (It's more likely that if they HAD become bitter, they would simply not get the media mileage that people get if they leave fundamentalist groups!)

It seems that there are just some formalities now before the Quakers dump me... like they already passed a motion that I should be kicked out before they even thought to ask me to meet with them to discuss their concerns, and it's been a while now since I agreed to do that, and I still haven't heard back. Either way, it probably makes no difference. They've already made their mind up and it's just a formality to tell me that, like it or not, out I go.

The whole thing has been very unfair. But something I noticed in myself when I started to let myself become bitter was kind of a selfish relief that I would no longer have to try to discipline myself to be positive, sweet, restrained, etc. If I wanted to tell the lot of them to piss off, I could do that. But what would be the good of it? Hadn't I joined them in the first place because I LIKED their discipline? And wasn't I becoming guilty of the same thing that I have criticised ex-JCs of?

I have to agree with you here Dave. It has taken some ex JC's a number of years before they can even venture near the innevitable accusations that would arise. But we managed to overcome the hurt caused by your handling of us to return and continue maintaining the principles of fairness and equality you say you stand for.

Whether it's the Children of God, the Jesus Christians, the Brisbane Christian Fellowship, or the Quakers, each of these groups has some kind of high standards that they expect their members to live up to. Probably none of us ever perfectly achieves those goals. Certainly amongst Friends it is common to remind ourselves that the image we each have of the perfectly controlled, placid Quaker is more of an ideal than a reality.

Nevertheless, when someone decides (in any of these groups) that they no longer want to play the game, i.e. that they no longer want to set such high goals for themselves, it is easy to turn on the group in anger... kind of to justify ourselves for having failed to live up to our high expectations.

Yes, the JC's certainly failed to live up to the expectations I had, and it did generate some anger initially. At the time of you booting me out my self control in restraining my anger in the face of outlandish accusations became evidence that what you said was true, because, in your way of thinking, anger should have happened.

In fact, my bitterness toward Friends is partly just that they have failed to live up to my own high expectations of Friends. I feel they have set impossible standards for me, while failing to practice what they preach in terms of honesty in particular. They are better than me at hiding their feelings, however, and they have rubbed my nose in that. But it would still be good if I could learn to emulate them in that area rather than hate them.

I wonder Dave, if you are going to use this incident as a time of reflection for how you treated Kevin when you set "impossible standards" for him when you demanded that your followers enforce those same standards to "break his pride"? And then, because 11 people would not obey you ... you left the community, asking others to follow you as you started a NEW community; from where your stricter punitive approach evolved. It seems to me that this situation has rolled around to you so that you can relect on some of your behavior towards others. Kind of like a Karma of sorts.

I guess that something I was hoping to say in that very long post about the Brisbane Christian Fellowship is that if you used the same standards that David Lowe and his ilk have used in their attack on the BCF, and if you applied those principles to Quakers, you could just as easily build a case against Friends. What each of us is suffering from are "disgruntled ex-members". I am soon to be an ex-member, and I would have to say that I am "disgruntled". I think that things are going on which go far beyond just striking someone's name off a membership list. In fact, I think there are some very immoral and illegal things that are happening. But short of taking them to court (or maybe calling in the media), there is probably little that I can do or say. They are a very powerful (and rich) organisation. They have pull with some other very powerful organisations. And it seems that they are using it.

At the same time that I feel I must be honest about what they are doing, I must also be fair about not expecting too much from them. There are a lot of "little people" who almost certainly do not know what is really going on. They have this great respected institution telling them that David McKay is some kind of a dangerous monster, and they have me saying that the great respected institution is up to some pretty monstrous business in an attempt to cover for things that people like David Lowe, Julie Walpole, Nick Eyles, Helen Bayes, and Valerie Joy have done. I have evidence (sometimes overwhelming evidence), but they are never going to be allowed to hear it. (That's why the Quaker Forum was shut down.) At some point, I need to just learn to "grin and bear it".

Hopefully that time is not too far off.

P.S. Cherry says that I should be careful that I have not said anything here that implies that we will NOT take legal action against the Society. I hope that Friends understand that as well. But if we do take legal action, we would like to do it without malice.

Thanks for clarifying that that Dave... for a second there I thought you were moving towards acceptance as a way of overcoming your bitterness. I guess I was expecting too much, huh?
:D (me doing a "grin and bear it")

I had to laugh at Dave’s latest creative writing:


“I noticed today that the Rick Ross forum says that David Lowe has made only 197 posts on that forum. That was the total a few weeks ago. So I am assuming that he has been doing some housekeeping, and has had some of his posts deleted. And my guess is that it would include the series where he issued threats to Lisa, Glenn, and Josh about how he was going to use information that he had gathered to destroy them if they did not back away from the Jesus Christians. But it doesn't matter, because I made copies of all those posts at the time.”


These comments coming from a “so called”, journalist.

Even allowing for the self appointed title, you would think if he were going to claim such a title, that his writings would at the very least be a little in the realms of reality.

Firstly, David Lowe doesn’t even post on the site. Secondly, it is not possible for a poster to delete their posts, once they are satisfied with their edits.

Thirdly, there has never been a series where I (who he thinks is David Lowe) have issued threats to Lisa, Glenn or Josh about using information to destroy them, if they did not back away from the Jesus Christians.

In regards to Glenn, there were a few posts specifically about his comments about fair game. One post even mentions they were tongue in cheek and that we like Glenn. I doubt Glenn feels either threatened by me or believes I am out to destroy him.

In regards to Josh. Josh wrote a few posts commenting about perceived rudeness and raised questions and clarification about the sources of personal information, such as Googling.

The issue of rudeness was not addressed, as Elvis is, after all, the King of Rock and Roll and was very popular with the ladies. No rudeness there.

The comments about “Lisa” were not designed to be rude per se, but be an appeal to her to, “take a good look at herself” (as they say in Australia).

Again, I would be surprised if Josh thought he had been threatened or I was out to destroy him. He still posts on the Jesus Christians Forum and I believe he still can post here.

In regards to “Lisa”, her true identity was revealed, but she subsequently told us it was already out there. She then raised questions about obtaining her own information. We did try and explain the legal technicalities of who is said to be “holding” information under certain Acts, but she failed to grasp what we were saying and I think in the end, we both moved on. There was a satirical post about where she might be able to obtain some of her information, although to be fair and honest, certain authorities have been notified of her link to the Jesus Christians. Was “Lisa” threatened by us and told that she was going to be destroyed. I don’t think so.

The only thing that is continuing to be destroyed by Dave's posting of inflammatory and untrue comments (such as the ones above), is Dave's own credibility.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2008 10:47PM by private eyes.