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muppet

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matilda
Scusi! questo e en Italiano!

[www.cesnur.org]

Interesting link Matilda, what does it say?

It seems to says that the JC's are a schism or schismatic (how do you say that?) of the children of god.

Here is an article in English. Very long, 3pages so watch for the tabs at pages end.

[www.theage.com.au]


Here are checklists written by sociologests and scholars.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Here is a very rough translation (Sorry, I had to guess on a bit of it.) of the Censure article, which was written in Italian. Maybe someone with a better understanding of Italian can help with any errors I have made.

Groups with a prophetic or messianic emphasis:

The Jesus Christians

Itinerant missionaries in Europe. Headquarters based at: P.O. Box A678, Sydney South, Australia 1235; Email: fold@idl.net.au; URL: [cust.idl.net.au]) Also known as Medowie Christian Volunteers, Nullarbor Walkers, Australian Volunteers, Voices in the Wilderness, children of God (but with small "c"), the Nappy Chappies, or simply "Christians". Jesus Christians (their name adopted in 1996) were born in Australia in 1981 around to a group of former Children of God members, guided by Dave McKay. [wrong: Only David has ever been a member of the Children of God, and then only lived with them for a couple of months, 28 years ago.] McKay had known the Children of God in the 1970s, and had lived with them in a "house" in Melbourne for a short period in 1978, separating himself from the movement because of disagreements over their 'flirty fishing' and practices and doctrines.

Travelling as itinerant missionaries to New Zealand, India, and Europe (with modest contacts in Italy), in the tradition of the Children of God, their message centered on the imminence of apocalyptic events and denunciation of hypocrisy in the mainline Churches. They differ from the Children of God, in that they accept birth control and refuse any form of adultery. They accept masturbation, however, a position which is often at odds with mainline Churches. The rest of their theology could be described as fundamentalist. In 2004, the Jesus Christians were at the center of a heated controversy in Australia over kidney transplants. According to Australian law the donor in a kidney transplant can only be a close relative of the patient. [or be a close friend] Members of the Jesus Christians were accepted as donors by pretending to have a closer relationship than they really did. They defended this action with the argument: "The deception was justified in order to save one human life". McKay, personally charged for this vicissitude, has declared that the movement would respect the law in the future, but at the same time it would be better if the law was changed, allowing voluntary donors without close relationships with the patients to donate a kidney and also other organs after having successfully passed a series of psychological examinations. (According to McKay, the Jesus Christians who had acted as illegal donors had successfully passed these tests.).

Godstuff Comix, Sydney, Australia, publish mostly pamphlets (also comics), including six Baby Books, which include some materials from the first years of the Children of God. They provide a good introduction to the similarities between the two movement.

The rest is about a group called New Horizons, and does not appear to have anything further to say about the Jesus Christians.

DJ is completely deceitful. Nothing he says can be taken at face value. He does not care about anything - or anyone - unless they can further his mission, which is to make a name for himself. He uses his family and followers to this end.

This is clearly evidenced in him using his own crippled wife in a publicity stunt...allowing her to be whipped!

He CLAIMS to allow his people to question and challenge him but anyone who does will rue the day!

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snuggles
Apostate, why have you deleted some of your posts, are you feeling intimidated or some other reason...........

Dave was threatening an ex-member to get at me. In order to protect this person I deleted some of the stuff.

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Is the Deborah, who suffered violent abuse at the hands of her father the same Deborah that david may metions when he offers a kidney from 'genuine' young african girl on the doner site.

it seems fast that she rejoined the group in jan and by july has decided

This is tragic! Deborah won't be in an emotionaly fit state to make a decision like this. It's heart breaking that this girl could well being doubly abused.

This is what bugs me;

These cults prey upon nieve and suseptable people, and mostly those who are young and in the transitional stages of 'reliance to independance'. Then along comes a 'cult' to replace the parental role. Not allowing members to 'grow' or mature, take on responsibility or become a functioning , thinking adult or member of society. Cults never end up helping these people, from the fire into the frying pan IMO.

They shun and slander the 'system' for it's ills and evils, yet never see the harm or evil in what they do.

No wonder the family in this other case felt so angry and distraught after losing their son/brother. These cult leaders can't know love or how to love otherwise they wouldn't cause this family such heartache.

They all do step on everyone around them, all manipulation, no heart. God knows they lie and distaut the truth for their own, can't be explained to everyone, motives.

Which brings us to money and power. Has this guy really become a quaker, or has he alteriour motives for associating with them. in the COG was at one stage it was common for disicples to infiltrate denomonations in order to recruit.

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The JC's have associated themselves closely with other denominations in the past in Australia and India. Maybe Apostate can elaborate ?

Dave, many times Rick Ross has asked you direct questions on this thread. When are you going to answer those questions?

From your webasite Dave

'In a series of question and answer sessions with Quaker quarterly meetings in Kenya, the most frequent question went something like this: "I did such and such against my neighbour and then asked for forgiveness, but he/she has refused. What do you say about that?" (These questions came after a talk by myself that did not even relate to the topic of forgiveness.)

These people obviously expected me to deliver a public discourse condemning the neighbour for not behaving in a Christian manner. But I did the opposite. I challenged them for not expressing genuine remorse for their sins. I could tell that they were not genuinely sorry, because a truly repentant person knows that they do not deserve forgiveness.

The Prodigal Son was forgiven by his father, and welcomed back as a son; but that was because he returned home full of remorse, and fully expecting to take on the role of a lowly servant. Where are the offenders today who apologise on the assumption that they will be punished to the full extent of the law, and that they will have nothing to complain about if that happens? Until people are prepared to face the awfulness of their sins, there will be no change... and I strongly suspect that even God himself will not impute forgiveness.

The Christian churches have made a law out of grace. They teach that even God has no choice but to forgive every bastard that comes to him reciting a little prayer, and that when they have finished the prayer, they can demand health, wealth, and happines AS WELL AS forgiveness all as part of their rightful inheritance as the "king's kids". What cheek!

I have called them bastards because that is exactly what they are. The Bible says that whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and he whips every son whom he receives. The passage goes on to say that if you do not accept God's discipline, then you are not his children, but you are bastards instead. (Hebrews 12:6-8)

God is a wonderful loving heavenly Father. We have discovered that from personal experience. But he's not stupid, and he's not going to be pushed around by selfish rebels who try to twist something he has said to his obedient, disciplined children to use it for their own selfish ends. When we stop making a law out of forgiveness, and come prepared to take our punishment, then we'll begin to understand just how gracious God (and his children) really can be. '


That reminds me of you. Rant Rant Rant Rant Rant Rant Rant

So you twisted us once and turned us against everyone and everytrhing we could trust. We were left with you sweet in the beginning but unpredictable and ranting ranting ranting. Oscar is right we are real surviviors and we will talk. Give us time!

Hi Dave,

This is Jack's brother Jonne. Do you remember me ?
I will write my two bits worth in the coming days.. Stay tuned o' cosmo-centric one.

apostate:

It's your choice to delete your posts, but I don't think it's wise.

You should not let Dave mainpulate you through anyone.

It doesn't help to do that.