Byron Katie and the dangerous LGAT "PSI Seminars" have assocations.
There is also a thread about EST, Landmark and The Work.
Notice how they spread the lie that Byron Katie knew nothing before 1986, and the client can see this is bullshit, and they keep pressing the lies at her?
Did Byron Katie take her material from EST in 1986?
EST was also referred to as The Work, as he states.
Watch and learn for the weasel-word masters...don't EVER "drink the tea" from a Byron Katie facilitator salesperson.
I would not send my worst enemy to #2 Robert, talk about self-righteous arrogant dishonest sleazy weasel words...sleazel?
Where do these people get off thinking its "ok" to manipulate and deceive people like this?
They learned it from Byron Katie.
Poster #1 is listed as a LCSW. Licensed Clinical Social Worker.
EST, Landmark and The Work.
--------excerpts for analysis----------------
I need some help understanding the similarities and differences between The Work and what use to be known as EST and is now called The Landmark Forum. My roommate at the 2006 School in L.A. was a former participant in Landmark and spoke about the similarities to me.
I now have a new client in my therapy practice who also participated in EST many years ago. I gave her the Little Book of Loving What Is and the sample CD after our first session. Tonight, in our second session I asked her what she thought about it and she said, "Well she obviously participated in EST at some time in her life." I explained that Katie did not have any exposure to religion, spirituality, psychology, etc. before she "woke up to reality" and that The Work arose spontaneously from her experience in 1986. She said that EST was very big in 1986.
She proceeded to tell me that she was not interested in The Work and got very passionate in telling me about her history with what she called "organizational entities." She did not want me to recommend any workshops or other group experiences. She said that she knew that people who experience such workshops get very excited about it and want everyone else to go. She even used the term "proselytizing."
I explained to her that I had no interest in her going to any workshops and that The Work is simply a way to question stressful thoughts that I like to sometimes use in therapy. However, we certainly did not have to use it if she was not open to it. I found myself wanting to defend The Work ("The Work needs defending" -- is that true?) and quickly decided that it would be best if I started taking a more "traditional" approach to therapy with her. We shifted gears, and I began a "psychosocial assessment."
After the session I was saying to myself, "Wow! She really had a strong reaction to The Work." It appears that she has such a strong association with EST that she is completely closed to The Work (by the way, EST was also referred to as "the work"). At this point I have no intentions of doing The Work with her. I was actually thrown for a loop and am not sure what I am going to do with her now. My plan is to finish my assessment and work with her to determine her goals for therapy. Hopefully, I will come up with a treatment plan that is feasible and that she can agree to.
Anyway, any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. Again, I am interested in learning more about the similarities and differences between The Work and EST/Landmark. Also, how would you have handled this type of client reaction?
I had fun reading your post, mainly because I recognized a lot. Not easy huh? 'Difficult' clients :-D
I don't think your 'problem' has anything to do with Landmark or EST. The way I see it it's more underlying beliefs she or you might have like: I am right, my way (The Work/Landmark) is the best way, I know it better than you.
Some questions arised while reading this:
"Katie did not have any exposure to religion, spirituality, psychology, etc. before she "woke up to reality"" Is that true? On which planet did she live? :-D
Clients statement: "Well she obviously participated in EST at some time in her life."
An answer I would have considered (and of course I have time to think about it now):
"You know, you could be right and would you like to test the work for yourself?"
>She proceeded to tell me that she was not interested in The Work
Ok, that's clear enough. “Would you like to have a cup of tea?”
Other statements and answers which came up to my mind:
>She did not want me to recommend any workshops or other group experiences.
Thank you for your integrity. I hear from you that this is not working for you.
>and quickly decided that it would be best if I started taking a more "traditional" approach to therapy with her.
It would be best for who?
>"Wow! She really had a strong reaction to The Work."
You might want to turn this around: E.g. ‘Wow! I really had a strong reaction to Landmark/EST."
> It appears that she has such a strong association with EST that she is completely closed to The Work .
Interesting to turn this around also:
It appears that I have such a strong association with The Work that I´m completely closed to Landmark or EST.
And: she is completely closed to The Work . Is that true? She read the little book and listened to the sample cd.
>At this point I have no intentions of doing The Work with her
also interesting to turn this one around:
At this point I have no intentions of doing The Work myself (about her).
These are just some thoughts. The bottom line for me is that I would inquire my type of reaction. She seems to be clear enough.
Beautiful!! What fun!! Thank you both.
Billy, your client is my guru :-)
Isn't she fabulous!! She reminds me of my favourite auntie.
What I get is like: Sit back and relax and allow her to Work me. Like a very powerful, delicious massage. No escape. Mmmmh ouch mmmmh ouch mmmmmmmmmh.
I participated in a number of Landmark Education workshops and also BKI events. In answer to your request for info about similarities and differences between the two... KT refers to our "story" while Landmark calls it a "racket"--same meaning. Landmark is also all about each of us being 100% responsible for our feelings, our possibilities. Lots about having a future of great possibility. As I write this, I can hear KT saying, "Life Does Me". Or, "I am a woman without a future".
Instead of the 4 questions, Landmark asks, What is the cost of your story/racket?
Thank you to everyone. All of your responses were very helpful. I can certainly see how I was "reacting" to her. I can also see how I was creating a "story" (or "racket") about her and her reaction. She was very clear about what she did and did not want.
I really don't give a flip how it works!
OH BOY! It works. MY FAVORITE!
Hey Billy and Grant and All,
I love this thread. I also did EST back in the early 70's. I kept doing more of it probably because there was this enormous guy named Grant who kept threatening to beat me up if I didn't bring more guests. No, sorry, I dreamed that. :) And don't you love it when someone is clearly not interested and they should be? I notice I often avoid even bringing it (The Work) up because I don't want to witness my investment in their response. HA!
I also love comparisons. It's just this, it's just that, etc. And speaking of RACKETS, here's what suddenly comes to (my admittedly bizarre) mind: The Work is just another form of Tennis. Ten-is where you start (remember the 0 to ten exercise, ten being most stressed?) When you think you've lost everything, there's no point and you have zero — and then you discover that zero is LOVE ! And, of course, you still get to SERVE. And have a BALL!!
Game, Set, Match (that).
Having a tournament of turnarounds,
All the bEST,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2008 08:44AM by The Anticult.