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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: DownToEarth ()
Date: April 06, 2008 10:01PM

Oops, I'm sorry, I see there has already been a lot written about Sashen on this board. I obviously missed reading part of this thread. My apologies.

I'm 'woo free' for about a month now [and recovering quite nicely :-)], and after briefly going to BK's homepage a while back, I felt this sensation of being sucked back in, like quick sand around my ankles. I decided at that point that I needed to treat this stuff as if I were allergic to it and just stay completely away from it for at least a year or so, if not longer, even if I were only looking for academic purposes. I've never been involved in BK's teachings, but I had been heavily in Abraham-Hicks' teachings, as well as a lot of other 'new age' things. I do find it interesting how *that* seems to have made me vulnerable to BK.

I've been reading Shamblog and Whirled Musings for quite a while now, and increasingly The Macho Response, and they, along with this board, are part of my 'circle of sanity and reason', along with a growing number of other blogs and boards I've found.

When I first went to Sashen's home page, I didn't click on the links on the left side right away and I was taken in by what seemed to be a sane, sensible, rational approach, and, hey, he was commenting favorably on Salerno's board and he seemed to be a part of that group, so I figured he was OK. I was truly taken aback when I saw the truth--that he's a BK teacher. I am also concerned about the way he is trying to insinuate himself into a group of people who debunk new age and self help con artists and cultists, as if he were one of them. What's he doing on these blogs anyway? Surely the people there must know what he is and perhaps they are just being polite and not saying anything, but to me it's like trying to ignore the elephant in the room. I notice he's not commenting on The Macho Response blog, however, hehe!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 07, 2008 09:55PM

"Down to Earth", no apology necessary at all! Thanks for highlighting Steven Sashen. He and others like him are imo an important part of the problem. Unfortunately I got into Byron Katie's work because of Steven.

I'll say more about this as soon as I'm able, gotta run now...

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DownToEarth
Oops, I'm sorry, I see there has already been a lot written about Sashen on this board. I obviously missed reading part of this thread. My apologies.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen, scams, etc
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 08, 2008 03:41AM

Welcome, DownToEarth...

I am pressed for time at present, and will comment more on Steven Sashen shortly.
BUT, there are already some comments in this thread already.
Check out earlier in the thread...

Sashen has a nice "presentation" and a seemingly Pleasing Personality...(How To Win Friends and Influence People)...but he is doing many highly dubious things.

For example, he had a $100 Challenge on his blog, but notice how he refused to apply it to The Work? How weird is that? That is very bizarre...Split-Mind...

Then he talked in his Blog about..what if everything you knew was wrong...or something like that. More Mind-manipulation...

He also runs a site about the Acai juice berry SCAM...and guess what...he says its a scam, and then sells you by the end of it! More Mind-Splitting Weirdness...full of old-school sales 101 techniques...(not very subtle on this one)
[www.acai-plus-exposed.com]

There is so much more to this.

DownToEarth, if you have time, check out Sashen's website. He seems to say he was a former Trainer or Director for Byron Katie?
What's up with the "former"?
Doesn't he still sell The Work for money?
What does he charge per hour?
Does Steven Sashen also do covert hypnosis on people as part of a sales-process? (of course! But they would prefer to not call it that in public...)

Steven Sashen also has a "hook" with $100 bills. That is another hypnotic technique, to pick out one thing like that.
[www.google.com]

Here is another Steven Sashen HIGHLY dubious page...it just goes on and on.
[www.downlineonline.com]

Is it an accident of the Universe that Steven Sashen and Carol Skolnick, and some other Byron Katie people makes zillions of posts on Skeptical Guru type blogs? Of course not! They were probably assigned that by someone in the Byron Katie internet Viral Marketing Department, like Stever Robbins, or whomever. They go out there and do a PRE-FRAME and try to smooth things over.
Also, its good Advertising for them personally too.
But they are not going to get many clients from Skeptical Blogs...so that is more Pre-emptive propaganda.

So DownToEarth, check out this thread, there is lots of Sashen info here to start.
And check out his blog, and report back here if you have time.

also, Steven Sashen is NOT a "former" with Byron Katie. Many of these groups have people who appear to be "objective" but serve more like a Front-Group. Then they RECRUIT people into the group through the back-door, with very SUBTLE inference and persuasion. Its a very very common technique, they all do it. It can be as basic as saying...hey,you might consider checking out a Byron Katie book...or link...that's all it takes in some cases...just a few words...BOOM.

Sashen is on 700 pages with Byron Katie...both on the same page...

Searrch Google for...

"steven sashen" "byron katie"


Also, search Google Groups (Usenet) for Steve Sashen
[groups.google.com]

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the power of Ericksonian hypnosis Suggestions
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 08, 2008 08:05AM

Some people who would read these threads would DOUBT that the power of so-called "Ericksonian Hypnosis" can make you do things, without you even being aware of it.
How could just reading and hearing "metaphorical stories" while in a suggestible state make changes?

Well, due to this thread, many of my old books on this subject from the archive have been pulled and reviewed. Just reading various stories by Dr. Milton Erickson, and things of that nature. What is fascinating, is that Milton Erickson was surely a type of genius. His stories all were often created about Nature and natural processes, family, etc. He used those deep metaphors as they are so deep in the human psyche. So I have read and reviewed a bunch of his Teaching Tales.

All of a sudden, without much conscious thought, for the first time, I went out and bought some soil pots, and tomato seeds, and other seeds, and planted a bunch of plants. It happened Automatically.
You see, Erickson did that to many people! You read story after story of person who studied with him, who would "all of a sudden" start a garden. (there are deep metaphors about Life in a garden, of course).
What is important about Milton Erickson, is that he was a HEALER. People have written countless books about the postive effects he had on people.
The image came to mind the other day, that Milton Erickson was like a naturalist gardener, for humans! He often spoke about the cactus, and if you think about it...humans are a lot like a cactus...
So Erickson helped humans get "planted" and trans-planted, and heal, and regrow, and flourish, and reproduce, etc. Not based on delusion, but the natural reality and ecosystem we exist in. So he created all of these Stories, which have profound effects on you just reading them, without you even knowing it.

The horrible irony and tragedy though, is that Byron Katie (and many others) have taken these POWERFUL tools, and are abusing them in an outrageous way. Her writings and books and CD's are literally heinous in what she is doing to people.
It would be as if a twisted and perverted gardener went looking for damaged plants...then transplanted them into her own personal garden, and took control of the sunlight and made them turn towards HER to make the plants become totally dependent on her, and worship her. And then harvested all of their fruits for herself, and even took ALL of their seed-corn, and stripped them barren, then cast them aside when they had stopped producing to her satisfaction. A gardener who simply exploits the plants for her own uses.

The "stories" Byron Katie is telling, based on techniques of Milton Erickson (and others) are EXTREMELY DAMAGING and unhealthy. They can CHANGE WHO YOU ARE, without you have any idea of what she is doing TO you.
Look back in this thread, and see the sick and perverse Core Beliefs she is trying to install and magnify in people. Truly some of the most heinous abuse of this out there.

For anyone who has really studied Ericksonian Hypnosis, just reviewing The Work of Byron Katie is traumatic and shocking. Most people would not believe someone would go out and try to do that to people, its truly sicko stuff.

The good news is you can fight back very powerfully and quickly. Kick Byron Katie out of your garden, and out of your mind, and let the sun back in. Rip out and burn up Byron Katies weeds-stories in a big bonfire.
Find and create your own healthy "stories" and metaphors and myths that empower you to grow, and be healthy, and independent. Again, brilliant people have written many many books on this very subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2008 08:11AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: DownToEarth ()
Date: April 08, 2008 11:29PM

One of Shamblog's readers asked Steve Salerno when he was going to do his article on Byron Katie, if ever. Salerno's reply was:

"Katie hasn't been shelved; but she's simmering on a back burner for now while I continue to accumulate info as I'm able. Also--and this may be the tricky part--I think this is developing into an actual piece of enterprise journalism that may demand comment (or at least a formal, spoken "no comment") from Ms. Katie herself."

[www.blogger.com]

Oh, I see Sashen has also commented in that section, if you go to the link and scroll up the page. Now what would *his* interest be in Skeptic magazine?? "All the other guru's and teachers are phony, except for the one I'm pushing...Don't worry, listen to me, I'm safe." Yeah, right. Really, though, maybe the BK question will silence Sashen for a while. In the meantime, he's a fox in the henhouse on Salerno's blog, I'm afraid.

I think Salerno is a pretty good journalist, an author to be reckoned with, so once he does get this article written, it should be pretty good, especially if it is as he stated above. BK really does need a big, huge spotlight shone on her. In my woo heyday, I had visited the Unity Church home page...yup, they were pushing Byron Katie.

Anticult, I had been reading Sashen's blog before I realized what his angle was, and I've just decided it's best for me if I stay away from it. I'm allergic. Highly allergic. Potential for the psychological/emotional/spiritual equivalent of anaphylactic shock allergic. <grin> I can sure see what you mean about the hypnotic language.

Oh, and Abe-Hicks uses the $100 bill thing in one of their exercises as well. :-)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Cult - More from Guruphiliac
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 15, 2008 09:17PM

Jody of Guruphiliac has just posted a new blog entry re the cult of Byron Katie. For some reason I can't link to it directly. It's called "Byron Katie Poisoned by Success?"

Here is a link to the Guruphiliac blog: [[url=http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/]http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/[/url]]

Here is the blog entry:

Byron Katie Poisoned By Success?

Seemingly from the inside, folks are beginning to lament the effect her success is having on Byron Katie:

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Someone I know who was recently at the "Certification" workshop told me that one of the workshop participants did a "worksheet", that's one of tools of The Work, on Katie asking her to stop talking about all the money that the TurnAround Houses will be making. He also challenged her to stop being fake and having a different public and private persona and actually live what she is telling others to do.

It's hard to accept that Katie has lost her way because it appears that she once was genuine, sincere, and honest. Now it seems she has become fanatical about the agenda of bringing The Work to the world. And in her zealousness she is using her own process of The Work to justify doing whatever she wants to do. She is incredibly skilled at acting kind and caring and she shifts to a very different person once off the stage and out of The Work process.

If you watch Katie in an interview she constantly has to refer back to The Work. In her mind every situation can be handled by doing The Work. As I watch her I see a woman who needs The Work instantly to deal with any confusion or discomfort. It is her only answer to everything.

Katie has a charismatic personality and she has gathered a flock of followers to spread The Work. It's free, but there is a catch. You will be encouraged to go to an event or use a facilitator and it will far from free.

Yes, there is a free hotline which is staffed a few hours a day. But beware, the people who are answering the phone aren't particularly comfortable about what they are in, which is usually way over their heads, and all they will do with your despair is tell you to write down your thoughts and ask yourself some questions. And if you stray from that exact process, in their discomfort with your actual life, they will tell you to stop and stick to it.

If it feels abrupt and discounting and strangely artificial believe in yourself because the person on the other end of the phone is mostly likely scared as hell and doesn't have a clue how to help you other than to say "Do The Work" like parrot.

If you can find a person who hasn't been infected with the BKI Persona virus and has a shred of genuineness left in them, then have them do The Work with you. Meditative inquiry has value at certain times used in certain ways. At other times and used in the wrong way it can get you more lost and further away from the truth of you.

As difficult as it may be if you are in pain and looking for help, trust yourself. There are a lot of confused people in BKI and there is a lot of interest in getting you to give them some of your money. If you feel you are being manipulated stop. Many of the people in BKI want to be helpful and many "believe" they are being helpful. But they are actually very controlling and fearful and they are using this method to mask their anxiety.

There isn't much genuine freedom or joy in BKI, it is on the fast track to becoming a group of burned out believers following a charismatic leader who has become a fanatic and blind to the wrong turn (around) she has taken.

Katie, just stop. Stop the bullshit you are in. Stop acting as though you aren't in this for the money. Stop acting as though The Work is working. Open your eyes and see what is right in front of you. See what is, Katie. Most of the people around you are faking it.

Katie, there is always the opportunity for you to stop this and return to the truth you were once living. Go back to the desert and walk with yourself in quiet. Stop this insanity you have gotten into.

Ask yourself if the world really needs you to end it's suffering or if you really are using the world to distract yourself. The Work is losing it's power because you are losing your way.
Byron Katie is a long way from the conniving type like Sri Sri or the Kracki, but being human comes with faults, and acting like you don't have them only makes them that much more apparent. There is no cure for suffering, Bryon. You can help folks through their lives a bit, but as soon as you begin to believe your own hype, you're doomed as a true guru.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2008 09:21PM by helpme2times.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Turnaround House scam
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 15, 2008 10:57PM

There is also another new post about the Turnaround House on the Guruphiliac blog, which is cross-posted below for reference.
Byron Katie is constantly talking about visiting "death beds" on her CD's, and that makes it clear there are probably very large "death bed gifts" being made, perhaps of entire estates, houses, etc.
The post below is in that area of the ballpark.

What is interesting about some of the insider reports coming out, is that many folks are not yet aware of what Byron Katie is covertly engineering into people's deep core beliefs. Much of that is explained in earlier posts in this thread. Hopefully over time, people will begin to look very carefully into these processes.



[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]

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4/05/2008 10:40 PM, Anonymous said...
I have always wondered what other info about Byron Kaite was out there. I just Googled "Byron Katie and Cult" ... wow

I have been very close to the situation for some time now. I was a caregiver and personal assistant for the last 16 months for a man who's partner is on the inside of Katie's inner-circle. When I left the older man was placed in a home... and the house turned into a BK Turnaround House, it opens in two weeks. I always wondered why the older man who owns the house was being placed in a home, why not find another caregiver, its his house....

Then I found out that now his house is being used for The Work... it made me ill. The person who the older man gave power of attny. to... was not only his "love" partner... but he is also on the inner circle now of BK.

I used to also help with travel plans when he would assist BK, I ran the house and I was taught how to do The Work, and stood in and taught some of his classes when he left on a trip at a small local Agency he was trying to build... Although I dont want to mention his name... those close to the situation will know exactly who I am speaking of when I say that he speaks several languages and travels with her to different countries and is her translator.

He was also just given the task, he said awarded, in building one of the Turnaround Houses... it's the one in San Francisco. I was just asked this past week to go see if I can assist in setting it all up. I had not heard from this person in several months and thought it quite odd he were to call. When I arrived the whole vibe was really wierd. I could see he had ran out of people to call for help if he was calling me.

I was told what the business structure and income projections will be for the SF House and was asked to help if I could. I had been incharge of the house prior as the caregiver and assistant and at one point was asked to assist in selling the old mans stocks and other assets and know of allot of crap and when I left a few months ago I RAN from this place. I have nothing good to say as I believe this man worked his partner and took him for all he had.

Once again I hear my old boss say its never about the money... what I saw just three days ago was this; the new Turnaround House here in SF is at this point... a joke... my old boss should make another $400-500K in the next 12 months off the Turnaround House ... all while the old man who own's the house is in a retirement home only 16 miles away.

I have seen people get free of pain and suffering with the work she does, and have seen how if used peoperly, can help, I have also been to a three day workshop of hers. But I have to say however, after being the assistant and caregiver in the house that is now being converted to the SF Turnaround House. Im very woried that things are going very wrong. That BK or the people that are close have taken a wrong turn.

I have been with clients after they attend the 9day school, most of what I read in the blog here was some of the very same stuff I have been told as well, I refused to ever go to it myself.

I leave you with this... several people have already paid $20,000 to stay at the SF Turnaround house having no idea what they are in for. This is a very hit and miss situation and lacks ANY real planning, maybe in time??? Please do not send your lived ones to the school or Turnaround house.

PS... does the house here in SF meet Zoning Laws, has a Business Lic. been issued. How about fire and safety occupancy laws, is there Liab. Insurance. Do you have a building permit for the construction going on? I can go on... the answer to these and several other questions I asked him was always... NO,NO.NO.NO....

Look it up for yourself... Today is 4/5/08

I have had to wash my hands from this as although I will always say the "who would you be without your story... and the four questions" etc... is good work and I use it where I am at now... I do believe however... somethings not right in BK town anymore.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Cult - More from Guruphiliac
Posted by: Traveler ()
Date: April 22, 2008 05:07AM

Hello All, I've learned a lot from reading your posts and thank you. I've been introduced to Byron Katie through a friend who is heavily into it, though I have never found her style attractive, and now that I've looked at a few videos I know why. She comes across to me as very fake and insensitive and showman-like.

I'd like to ask those of you who have had personal experience with doing her Work: what is the idea with negative perceptions? Like is it possible in her world to have a negative thought about anything, a perception of some situation not being right or useful? Does her work allow for the possibility that there are discerning negative thoughts which do not cause you stress, or that it's possible to hold on to a negative perception without changing it into its opposite, but merely eliminating the hurt and personal involvement?

For example, I have the negative perception that Byron Katie appears fake and insincere. But it does not cause me any stress, it just causes me to stay away from her. Would I still be asked to question this perception and turn it on myself?

Because yes, I certainly can find examples of myself being insincere, but that seems beside the point. Does Byron Katie find any value in perceptions of people being something other than pure kindness and love?

Thanks!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Cult - Oprah Soul Sham Series
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 10, 2008 03:25AM

Very sadly, it looks like Oprah is going to shill for Byron Katie soon, in the Oprah Soul Sham Series.
[www.oprah.com]
You know what Byron Katie is going to do with this? It will bring thousands of new innocent "minds" into the Byron Katie system. Its going to be a feeding frenzy for the Byron Katie company...

It seems basically Oprah is going to take every New Age huckster on earth with a book to promote, and every New Age cult on earth, and ram them down people's brains, using her media persuasion techniques.

Not one iota of critical intelligence, or critical thinking. Zero.
It really is New Age propaganda media-persuasion.

No question, Oprah is the biggest promoter of New Age quackery on the face of the earth.
I think a large part of it is the financial side, its a multi-billion dollar industry, and Oprah wants to "own it". She probably figures she can make a few more billion bucks in the New Wage field, and also promote her own personal religious beliefs as well.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Cult - Oprah Soul Sham Series
Posted by: DownToEarth ()
Date: May 10, 2008 04:26AM

Quote
The Anticult
Very sadly, it looks like Oprah is going to shill for Byron Katie soon, in the Oprah Soul Sham Series.
[www.oprah.com]
You know what Byron Katie is going to do with this? It will bring thousands of new innocent "minds" into the Byron Katie system. Its going to be a feeding frenzy for the Byron Katie company...

That is terrible news indeed. I always figured if BK every hooked up with Oprah, it would be a really, really bad thing.

A brief visit to BK's web site within the past couple of months did flip that little programmed switch inside me and I had to get out of there. I saw a bit of the YouTube video where BK was conditioning a woman who was afraid of war. I could only stand about 2 seconds of that. Actually, I wanted to give BK a strong smack upside the head, LOL! There was something weird and creepy in that sing-song voice, the way she spoke to this woman, and I just couldn't tolerate it, even for educational purposes. The video was actually posted on the blog of someone whom I would describe as virulently anti-New Age. [themachoresponse.blogspot.com] I think he had trouble tolerating it, too.

{{shudder}}

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