More conditionings: All "free" time shall be spent doing volunteer labor; the more menial, the better. (If you happen to be a doctor or professor, expect to be placed on toilet cleaning detail.) If the volunteer labor involves a remodel of G&M's, JRS' or GH's home, do not expect remuneration, thankfulness or honorable mention when said home is later featured in
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain I think he rose quickly through the ranks, starting with his stint in San Diego. Wasn't he an assistant pastor in SD within 6 months or so of joining the fellowship? And he apparently backed John (rather than RD) during the silver mine debacle, a time period when many took a huge financial hit by investing in what turned out to be nothing but a scam. That stance alone likel
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain Yes, congregants fearing an exceedingly vindictive, imaginary God (created by John, customized by G & M), while the leaders live basically lawless lives. Nothing new under the sun. -somewhere in Ecclesiastes Changed, wasn't that in the book of Gary and Marilyn? Not sure, it might have been in the book of John and Marilyn. New corollary to above rules: Pretend
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOnion Maybe we could start an inventory list of conditioning to go with the weird walk talk dictionary. Here is a start: Do Not Speak Up Do Not Ask Questions Keep Your Eyes Open Because You Are About to get in BIG Trouble The Walk Has the Power to Destroy Your Life Do Not Make Any Decisions Adding some corollaries to you list of rules, Onion. Do not think unless you a
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Question: Are there any other charitable organizations besides churches in which individuals who have donated thousands of dollars for years of their lives are not valued or their opinions taken into consideration because they stop donating? Asking for a friend...
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Shiloh/Kalona News... A few quotes on the proposed annexation from the article: “The city isn’t buying Shiloh,” Schlabaugh said. “Annexation does not mean ownership. We’re not looking to write checks.” "Current discussions between Shiloh and the city involve Shiloh requesting a voluntary annexation of its 200-acre property into the city of Kalona." "The current prop
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Liamthomasusa, The Path has many parallels with TLWF, as you said. Good one.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain I guess we're supposed to feel sorry for Gary and Marilyn--that they weren't able to have a very important message delivered to John (in the cloud of witnesses) in a timely manner. Poor Mom and Dad...they were always at the mercy of their unfaithful, incompetent servants. Sob. Yes, I believe that is what they thought. How did they end up with such an incompetent gro
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Just as a TLWF member's life is not about themselves and their family, even their death is not about them. It's about guilt and shame for being ill, dying too soon or not dying quickly enough. Trying to take a message to the "other side" for the grandest egotists of all. I, for one, could no longer abide the extreme control and had to say, "Enough!". I hope that more
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOnion I need to clarify something about Bob McClane - or as he was called in my family "Bobby McClane." Bob McClane did NOT commit suicide. He died of a heart attack in the VA hospital. The only time suicide was associated with Bob's death was in the loud and nasty rant of Gary Hargrave who said it was suicide because of Bob's poor health habits. It was cruel and un
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Great posts on child abuse reporting, NancyB. Thank you for the links. One of my biggest problems with TLWF teaching has to do with their bizarre attitudes toward death. Death and dying are a natural part of life. It is a difficult concept for most of us, especially when it touches us personally. JRS and Gary Hargrave have made the process particularly fraught with their teaching that resurrec
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Richard M. and Cloudwatcher, It's good to see that you're both still keeping an eye on the RR Forum. I'd love to hear from you both.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteNancyB Was that like an 'allowance for boarding school'? How did tlw justify the room and board expense on their non-profit? Did any one ever graduate with a diploma from learning to be pure and obedient? Did your little allowances or paycheck ever pay into ssi;ssdi; soc security; income tax? Did tlw pay for health insurance? Hi NancyB, Good to see you back here. :) I'm
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Changed, Hope the nephs at COSTCO let you get your candy. There's nothing worse than being run down by satanic channels while grocery shopping.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

P.S. I misquoted JRS in my post above. It was "I had sought to kill you for your withdrawal." Those words terrified all of us needlessly.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Changedagain, Thank you for re-sharing Sierra Dawn's post. Her story about her mom is tragic. It is probably one of the stories that bothers people the most and is remembered years after first reading her account. Sierra Dawn, if you still read here, know that much good has come from you bravely sharing.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, unfortunately the tax exempt status of religious organizations seems to be a draw for leaders with evil and greedy intentions. Hopefully, laws can be changed, or the IRS will take note of the abuses and revoke this privilege. I am so thankful that we have this forum to share information and to learn more about the type of group that controlled many of our lives for so long. One of the f
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, your post should be shocking and distressing news to anyone ever associated with TLWF. I also hope that victims will continue to come forward and bravely tell their truth. "People should not be afraid of information." Absolutely!
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain He demanded this of his congregants as they abandoned their jobs, joined communal homes, moved across the country, worked 80-hour weeks performing unskilled manual labor, and donated almost all of their earnings to the church. It's time that we stop deifying JRS and apply a little more scrutiny to what his true motivations often were: vanity and greed at the expense of tho
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

More about the pressure on victims to forgive from The Daily Beast "One particularly troubling example of this pressure comes from the published guidelines of the Advanced Training Institute (a Christian curriculum TLC’s Duggar family used to homeschool their children) for addressing sexual abuse in the home. It explicitly requires child victims to forgive their abusers in a 10-step pro
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOnion Forgiveness. Always demanded but never shown. I watched "The Forgiven" a movie about Bishop Tutu in Africa at the end of Apartheid. It talks about amnesty, forgiveness and freedom. Bishop Tutu explains clearly the confession in detail for the wrongs done that is required before there can be amnesty and even then freedom from prison is not a guarantee. The leaders trying to ke
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

RR Moderator posted some important links on page 875. This one helped me immensely: This is an excerpt of chapter 22 of a book by Robert J. Lifton, M.D. titled: Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Here are the topics covered: Milieu Control Mystical Manipulation The Demand for Purity The Cult of Confession The "Sacred Science" Loading the Language Doctrine Ove
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain Thanks for sharing this info, Onion. Any idea what the city of Anaheim paid for the Church of His Holy Presence (CHHP)? Was it purchased through the process of eminent domain? BTW, I came across this site (link below) that confirms the name change (Hargrave Family Ministries to Hargrave Ministries). There's also a listing of the directors/officers: It looks like
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOhman? Anybody remember the bus driver. I think from Anaheim to living word school. Ken? I got a whooping from him while preaching the word. Every word a spank. Not sure what I did. Maybe deserved it but anyway He was known for his whooping. My sis got whoop to. Ohman?, the person you mentioned was the bus driver who brought the kids from Anaheim to the Valley school in the 1970s before
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain TLWF leadership was obsessed with the subject of the cross experience ('drinking the cup'). Strategically, it kept people in a state of unworthiness, which made them easier to control and do as their told. Those lacking self-esteem are much more unlikely to call out leaders for wrongdoing. They're too absorbed by their own infractions...conveniently emphasized so
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

The true essence of a dictatorship is in fact not its regularity but its unpredictability and caprice; those who live under it must never be able to relax, must never be quite sure if they have followed the rules correctly or not. Christopher Hitchens, Hitch 22 Sound familiar?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, yes, I can imagine that too. And leave it to leaders completely illiterate in regard to mainstream Christian teaching to goof up the symbolism so thoroughly. This day is not even about the cross, it's about the victory over the cross and the grave. It's about resurrection, not crucifixion. Thank you for you good wishes, Twoteetwo. That meant a lot to me.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

To all those who frequent these virtual halls, I wish you a happy Easter, or Resurrection Day, or day that TLWF eschewed in favor of Passover. In all of Christendom, this is the most holy of all days. It is the reason that there is a Christian religion at all. Interesting that those who considered themselves the most elite and chosen among Christians should ignore such a day. Perhaps celebrating
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteAmos I don’t know if anyone on this forum previously observed that the term “upward flow” is a synonym for “pyramid scheme.” With Marilyn deceased and with Gary and many others ostensibly out of the picture because they resigned and fled, or are laying low hoping that the law doesn’t catch up with them, who is at the top of the pyramid now? How would one reconcile that doctrine now giv
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, I hope that Rick Holbrook is no longer receiving a salary from TLWF. The severance package is a very bad joke already. It would also be interesting to know the disposition of "That Studio". Who does it, and the expensive equipment inside, belong to? Does Rick still party at the Rayen Resort? Drink wine and smoke cigars from the extensive wine cellar? Was offering money actually u
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families