QuoteOnion Forgiveness. Always demanded but never shown. I watched "The Forgiven" a movie about Bishop Tutu in Africa at the end of Apartheid. It talks about amnesty, forgiveness and freedom. Bishop Tutu explains clearly the confession in detail for the wrongs done that is required before there can be amnesty and even then freedom from prison is not a guarantee. The leaders trying to ke
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

RR Moderator posted some important links on page 875. This one helped me immensely: This is an excerpt of chapter 22 of a book by Robert J. Lifton, M.D. titled: Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Here are the topics covered: Milieu Control Mystical Manipulation The Demand for Purity The Cult of Confession The "Sacred Science" Loading the Language Doctrine Ove
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain Thanks for sharing this info, Onion. Any idea what the city of Anaheim paid for the Church of His Holy Presence (CHHP)? Was it purchased through the process of eminent domain? BTW, I came across this site (link below) that confirms the name change (Hargrave Family Ministries to Hargrave Ministries). There's also a listing of the directors/officers: It looks like
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOhman? Anybody remember the bus driver. I think from Anaheim to living word school. Ken? I got a whooping from him while preaching the word. Every word a spank. Not sure what I did. Maybe deserved it but anyway He was known for his whooping. My sis got whoop to. Ohman?, the person you mentioned was the bus driver who brought the kids from Anaheim to the Valley school in the 1970s before
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain TLWF leadership was obsessed with the subject of the cross experience ('drinking the cup'). Strategically, it kept people in a state of unworthiness, which made them easier to control and do as their told. Those lacking self-esteem are much more unlikely to call out leaders for wrongdoing. They're too absorbed by their own infractions...conveniently emphasized so
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

The true essence of a dictatorship is in fact not its regularity but its unpredictability and caprice; those who live under it must never be able to relax, must never be quite sure if they have followed the rules correctly or not. Christopher Hitchens, Hitch 22 Sound familiar?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, yes, I can imagine that too. And leave it to leaders completely illiterate in regard to mainstream Christian teaching to goof up the symbolism so thoroughly. This day is not even about the cross, it's about the victory over the cross and the grave. It's about resurrection, not crucifixion. Thank you for you good wishes, Twoteetwo. That meant a lot to me.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

To all those who frequent these virtual halls, I wish you a happy Easter, or Resurrection Day, or day that TLWF eschewed in favor of Passover. In all of Christendom, this is the most holy of all days. It is the reason that there is a Christian religion at all. Interesting that those who considered themselves the most elite and chosen among Christians should ignore such a day. Perhaps celebrating
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteAmos I don’t know if anyone on this forum previously observed that the term “upward flow” is a synonym for “pyramid scheme.” With Marilyn deceased and with Gary and many others ostensibly out of the picture because they resigned and fled, or are laying low hoping that the law doesn’t catch up with them, who is at the top of the pyramid now? How would one reconcile that doctrine now giv
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Onion, I hope that Rick Holbrook is no longer receiving a salary from TLWF. The severance package is a very bad joke already. It would also be interesting to know the disposition of "That Studio". Who does it, and the expensive equipment inside, belong to? Does Rick still party at the Rayen Resort? Drink wine and smoke cigars from the extensive wine cellar? Was offering money actually u
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Extrapolating from your last post, Onion, I'm guessing that it's not a good time to be a director of TLWF and related entities. No matter how much members are told that said entities no longer exist, if the (non) leaders ask someone to serve on a board, interim or otherwise, the invitee might want to consult with a tax attorney that is completely independent from said (non) entity. Befo
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotefool me twice Another Shiloh update: Quote From the article: Caquelin said that any proceeds from the sale of the property would only go to non-profit organizations, such as the church, and "absolutely not to any private individuals.” He also pointed out that, in the past, funds have been donated to Shiloh for various "restricted purposes," including a plan to const
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotefool me twice Another Shiloh update: Quote From the article: Caquelin said that any proceeds from the sale of the property would only go to non-profit organizations, such as the church, and "absolutely not to any private individuals.” He also pointed out that, in the past, funds have been donated to Shiloh for various "restricted purposes," including a plan to const
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

QuoteOnion As to anyone from the dark side having won anything: The pressure continues to mount in places possibly unseen by members of this forum. But massive pressure is on and closing in. Laws have changed, public sentiment worldwide has changed, lawyers are contacting us now, and the IRS hasn't even weighed in yet. The perpetrators have already lost so much they cannot consider themselve
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

puddington Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Prettyboy - You say that we are letting Gary & > Rick win. I’m not really keeping score and I’ve > already prepared myself for an outcome where they > both walk free. As far as I am concerned, the war > is over souls and setting the captives free. By > that metric, we won already. So many p
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > p.s. If this forum does die, my only request is > that it not be buried in the Shiloh cemetery. If > this happens anyway, I sincerely hope those > attending the funeral are not charged more than > $40 per person. I want our forum to always be > remembered as being extremely fair. Lol!
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Greetings from Radio Free Land, Richard M., putting your story together with a quote from 40yearsin2016 that changedagain recently reposted, it is clear to me now that Marilyn was the means by which The Walk/TLWF continued to control so many lives past June 4, 1983. From 40yearsin2016: “One of the first phone calls to us from Marilyn after John's death was to insist that our monthly
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Wow, changed! I guess I forgot about the stoplight part. I agree that you were wise to stop, even though they must have been an illusion sent to test your faith. ;) No more literature here. It's all long gone. Someone must still have one, though.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Well, stuff happened in 1979, but it sure didn't feel like the Kingdom to me. ;)
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain A short clip of an individual who always followed his inner voice. This often meant exerting the least amount of effort to enjoy life & completely ignoring any and all guilt-trips. Trust me, I sent many his way, to no effect. And we could all learn something about following our inner voice from this individual. Thanks for sharing, changed.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Hi Prettyboy, I got your PM. Many of us aren't exactly sure what we believe these days. There is no doctine test here.We all seem to know what we DON'T believe, though. ;)
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Good to hear from you, FCSLC. You see what happens when we stop observing the unspoken gag order and talk to each other? I never knew this about Herman Maxwell, but not much about leaders from The Walk/TLWF surprises me anymore. The fact is that many people like you and your wife tried to speak up, but were given a bunch of BS. Hi Richard M. I agree with your assessment.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotedenisewallerlaughlin i would be happy and justified to admit to being a party of sexual assault from Herman Maxwell in 1975 but I think it means nothing unfortunately I can only hope that other women with similar experiences speak out denisewallerlaughlin, That is sad news indeed. Power (especially absolute god-like power) does strange things to people. I'm sorry to hear of your
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain The political maneuvering is impressive. They have a way of convincing the right people (with influence) to lobby on behalf of their will. They've had years of practice using coercive persuasion on us. I wonder how the average Kalona resident feels about using the cult property?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain The plans are made, and then follows the pretense of 'seeking God' and asking for input from the ministries down the authority chain, and as a last resort, the congregation. The few times I was involved in an input session involving top leadership...I came to the conclusion that the decision(s) had already been made, and the meetings were just to give the appearance th
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Is it just me or does this all seem like it has been in planning for a long time? All without inviting input from the general congregation, of course. And definitely without any help from survivors.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotefool me twice The amount of land being included is 200 acres. HFM owns close to 1,000 acres around Shiloh. "HFM owns close to 1,000 acres around Shiloh." Wait, what?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I just read on FB that someone is in talks with the city of Kalona, IA to deed the Shiloh property to Kalona. For free... Guessing that Shiloh is not the center of the universe after all. Who knew?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quotechangedagain Gary H--best to assume that whatever he does has his own interests first and foremost. We saw it with his phony, nebulous apology (for PR purposes) and now in what appears to be the dissolution of TLWF...which still doesn't answer the question of who controls the remaining assets, obviously his primary concern (well, after escaping the long arm of the law). Anyway, he�
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Fool me twice, your story about JRS being more concerned for his flowers getting lead paint chips on them than for you just so poignantly shows the lack of a father's heart. And add to that how people were told not to bother him, talk to him, or approach him. It's mind boggling, really. It's definitely enough to make people feel unimportant and unloved. Well, that's a cult for
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families