Kbyrne and TheycalledmeJonah, the incident that NickleandDimed mentioned regarding the Honolulu church and Craig Gruenberg happened in the 80's. I don't believe he has been a principal pastor since then, but has remained very involved, especially in the worship. I'm interested in the experiences you shared, kbyrne. I think that most or all of the members of TLWF have either rece
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Great video, great list of points about destructive cults and great dicussion. #10. If you question something about the group, are you told it is your reactive mind, Satan, etc. and the problem is you – not the group? If I ever questioned anything, it was because I needed a revelation. It was sometinnes attributed to my carnal mind, a critical spirit, transference or a Jezebel spirit. If I
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I'm wondering if TheycalledmeJonah has any more recent examples of TLWF leaders or members being pushed out of the group because they asked too many questions or crossed the wrong person? Since many have already seen how the same strategies were used by JRS/G&M to rid themselves of people who had become noncompliant in some way, it would behoove members and and leaders alike to learn
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Cloudwatcher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This lady knows about the LW in Los Angeles Area > and has helped a lot of people. > > Great video, Cloudwatcher. Thanks for posting it!
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

larry bobo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We constantly heard the evils of denominationalism > preached, and I would suspect it was more about > John’s excommunication and his refusal to have any > personal accountability than what he led us to > believe. It’s interesting that he demanded more > control over others than any group I’ve co
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Larry, it's so interesting hearing about what happened in Des Moines. Was Vere Thomas sent elsewhere, or was he just cut loose entirely? I didn't know that Vere and Mahota were sent on a long world tour to get them out of the way. Fred and Eva were also sent on a long world tour for the same purpose. I believe that a common dismissal during that time went something like, "Thank you
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Is TLWF finally down to only two people who can't get kicked out or side-lined? Congratulations to Gary Hargrave and Rick Holbrook. You guys won the grand prize. But what is it worth if everyone else gets fed up and leaves? Oh, that's right...greener pastures in Brazil.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

lily rose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nickle, Reep and changed-the events at Grace > Chapel Honolulu were happening all over the Walk. > It was 1979 and the kingdom didn't come. Woodrow > Nichols said JRS was restructuring the Walk and > removing leaders he didn't trust. He mentions in > his book some 34 changes. JRS also re
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

NickleandDimed Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But John went ahead and removed > Gruenberg. He could have just counseled him. Told > him to end the clique. Instead he removed > Gruenberg. It humiliated Gruenberg. No one thought > he should have been removed. To me, that kind of > discipline was part of the 10% rat poison. The root probl
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I didn't know Craig well, but the impression I had > of him based on relatively few encounters was that > he operated from a place of integrity. Maybe what > John was referring to as socializing, was just > someone allowing himself to be accessible. That was my impression too, changedagain.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

corboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No one has to answer any of these questions about > the back room meetings Puddington mentions. > > I came up with the questions just in case they > help clarify what people remember and wish to > describe. > > Since those back room meetings were kept a secret, > no one who was not in th
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

lily rose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I used to feel the most extraordinary anointing > when I prophesied in an Italian accent. "The Lord > has prepared for you a table of resurrection life, > sonship, and spaghetti." Sorry about that. Haha! I always felt the most anointing when I just kept quiet. Or prophesied in Pig Latin. That
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

larry bobo wrote: _______________________ > Reepicheep – Are you serious in implying that God > has not limited Himself to speak in King James, as > He did through John in the early days of The Walk? > How can we lowly congregants possibly distinguish > true words from God from the ramblings of men? At > least it’s not in Latin! After all, if Jesus > spoke in King J
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

TheycalledmeJonah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One aspect of the Living Word Churches which > always made me feel weird was that as a church, > they are always pushing toward something - > breaking through. What does that even mean. It > seems as though all the words brought are meant to > "fix" us so that we can break through
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

puddington Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Corboy, by my estimates > > 1) What proportion of people in LW were also > attending the back room meetings? Probably only > 10% > > 2) Were these back room meetings generally known > about, or secret? Only known to those invited > > 3) What did a member have to do before he or
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain wrote: ____________________________________ > BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death > actually brought down Satan, which if people > believe it, would make John even more revered (if > that is possible). I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he? Also, I distinctly remember sermons in which the members were blamed for &
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Changedagain, puddington, corboy, lily rose: (Nickleanddimed and Larry, you too. Didn't mean to leave you out, your posts just magically appeared.) You all make excellent points. Sometimes you hear the same dogma over and over, until it just sounds normal. Everyone in your group agrees and confirms. If you have a contrary thought, you ignore it, stuff it down and go on. After awhile you
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Sounds like a good idea, corboy and puddington. lily rose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I wonder if the idea of infallibility in JRS's > divine order scheme is confusing to people and > leading some people to feel it is the unpardonable > sin and somehow blasphemous to question what they > feel is the voice of the spirit. I thin
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Acesanates wrote: _________________________________ All that Martha stuff was a snore. Maybe to you, acesandates. But probably not to Martha, or the daughters of John and Martha, or to the grandchildren. Pretty sure it was no snore for them. In hindsight, I didn't appreciate "the Apostle to the Kingdom" praying for God to kill his wife, and teaching his followers to do like
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

TheycalledmeJonah wrote: _____________________________ > Thanks for your kind words, Reep. My parents are > still in the church, but their relationship with > it has definitely changed quite a bit. I see them > as being in the same place I am with the church - > Love the people with all our hearts, but need > something different for ourselves. > > Our relationshi
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Acesanates, I believe you said that you left the Walk when it all became "too political" back in the late seventies. What does that mean? Please help us to understand why you left. This forum is made available through the Cult Education Institute, and the topic is The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens. You can call people who post here "bitter" in order
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

acesandates Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lastly, in my experience and belief, I do not > believe JRS was a false prophet or false ministry, > money and property issues be damned. Because what > i experienced, beginning in the early 70s in San > Diego, Anaheim, Southgate, Sepulveda was the > return of the apostolic anointing. Acesand
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

So sorry for what you're going through, Cult Widow. This is an older post, but I believe you'll be better off without the person who left you and the family for a cult leader. Hope things are getting better for you by now.
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

acesandates Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Even if he was a charismatic ego (whatever that > psychologically entailed) he also was an > authentic apostolic vessel of Christ's spirit. Acesandates, with all due respect, what is your evidence of JRS being "an authentic vessel of Christ's spirit"? It seems that you used very subj
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changeagain wrote: > The risks were veiled. They were only revealed > after a person became immersed into culture. Trust > me...if from the outset you were told this > movement had 'the Apostle to the Kingdom', there > were Nephilim resisting his ministry (among them, > his wife), we were to pray for their death (or the > death of the spirit moving through
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Welcome, TheycalledmeJonah! Good for you! Many people who post here are very regretful that they didn't see the light and leave TLWF while they were still young. I think it's rather interesting that Craig told you that being a musician is not you. That takes some colossal nerve, if you ask me. I don't know you, but IMO the leaders in TLWF only know what they WANT to know about the
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

corboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Cult leaders hate being accountable to objective > guidelines of any kind, hate anything that is a > reminder that there is something outside of their > group that they cannot control, standards where > they are falling short. > > So...one cult building strategy is for the leader > to persuad
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

larry bobo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In hindsight, it is curious to see how normal > healthy behavior was considered to be “religious”. > In exchange for “freedom”, we tolerated another > human taking the place of God and completely > controlling every aspect of our lives. Coming out > of a Baptist background, it made the legalism I
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

lily rose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There's so much "new thing" in the LW. I remember > the 1970's were banner years for new things. We > eagerly awaited each new JRS tape and the next new > thing God was doing. Funny that all the new things > JRS said he (the anointed one) received from God > were the teaching of
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Repeat sermon alert: The New Leaven of the Kingdom December 30, 2017 - by Gary Hargrave Monte Sião, Niterói, Brazil. God is doing a whole new thing in the earth by bringing forth His Kingdom, and it is totally different than anything we have ever known or experienced. Are we willing and ready for the new? A new thing called The Kingdom?!? Wow! We'd better all rush down to Braz
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families