QuoterrmoderatorGulab Jamon: Many controversial groups, movements and leaders are discussed here that are not labeled as "cults" and have not been called "cults." I know you yourself have not called Byron Katie's organization a "cult", but a poster above implied that she is a guru and has guru-like tendencies, and even said that her denying that she is a g
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteHopeQuoteWhen you are dealing with a serious problem like childhood sexual abuse (as the original poster was), you can't expect a "quick fix", and Katie's method may or may not work for that problem. Well - here is the problem. The client will have wasted time and money, and perhaps even have further damage done, in the process of finding out that someone like Katie
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteWhen you are dealing with a serious problem like childhood sexual abuse (as the original poster was), you can't expect a "quick fix", and Katie's method may or may not work for that problem. Well - here is the problem. The client will have wasted time and money, and perhaps even have further damage done, in the process of finding out that someone like Katie can'
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

A couple more things I don't like about Katie. She teaches "you create your reality" and it's black or white, so, for my purposes, it's unusable. I also take issue with the teaching that there's only you, everything is about you, there are no others. All problems, answers are within. It's my experience that there are others (who are real) and that ther
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Gulab Jamon: Many controversial groups, movements and leaders are discussed here that are not labeled as "cults" and have not been called "cults." The LA Times article was quite good.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

FYI: Skeptic must have responded above while I was in the process of writing my previous post, and I just want him/her to know that I had not even seen his post when I wrote that sentence about "skeptics", so the comment was not aimed at him/her or meant to single him/her out. I didn't see his post until mine was already posted.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Elena, I also want to thank you for posting that article. I think it was very balanced. Personally, I don't see the point in attacking Byron Katie and "The Work". There are plenty of REAL cults out there that are actively harming people. As much as I love this board and enjoy the discussions here, I think there is a tendency by certain members to be too quick to label everyone a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

My dislike of Katie is based on my looking at her work individually, and as objectively as I can. I have carefully listened to the CD and I try to watch my knee-jerk reaction. I think the material she teaches is on the crazier end of the spectrum. I don't know how her organization is run but, for me, the distorted thinking she teaches is too similar to the "thinking" I lear
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoterrmoderator Byron is a "combination mystical guide, wisecracking therapist." I'm surprised you'd use that quote as "evidence" to back up your argument. That quote is not a statement of fact; it is a subjective opinion of one particular reporter.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

My view is that if a seminar, counselor or consultant insists upon a release form being signed that would waive some of the rights of potential participants, that would not be a program that I would either attend or recommend to anyone. This may seem harsh, but individuals and companies should take responsibility for their programs and/or the results that flow from their actions. Televisio
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Actually.... almost everybody has a release form now... the real question is what happens when these releases are challenged in a court. I have also attended a couple of seminars where there is an additional release, a "model release" where you are expected to allow your voice, likeness, or name to be used (in perpetutity, I might add) in any way the seminar leader (typically corporatio
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

When I said going to someone better qualified, my specific point was to pick a professional better qualified than Byron Katie. Of course many people prefer to talk to a friend, family member or co-worker depending upon the situation for free. But when people pay for professional help or guidance it is always best to go to someone qualified with credentials. First, because they have the s
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I'm not aware of any reports of seriously inappropriate behavior by the Katiedids, except perhaps employing a therapy-like setting and, in the case of the original poster, causing someone to feel uncomfortable. Katie herself does not appear to be licensed or trained in any kind of psychology or social work. Then again, the entire field of psychology is distinguished by a marked lack of conse
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

rrmoderator... By the way, how do you know 'People with problems are better off going to someone better qualified'? That's a gross generalization in my opinion. Which people are you making this statement about? All people? Do you know all people? My point in adding this post is the issue that things are relative. Some MAY be better off going to someone more qualified in
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

rrmoderator... Again, who are the 'they' that you repeatedly refer to? One size doesn't fit all... and that is exactly what you are doing. Don't get me wrong, I see how certain group dynamics 'can' be destructive. But you are using the same tactics you supposedly so strongly oppose, that is making one size fit all in stating 'they' (i.e. all self im
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Madshus: If she is not a board certified mental health professional, she is not qualified. Byron says, "the Work, uses a therapy-like setting to get people to view their problems." Byron is a "combination mystical guide, wisecracking therapist." Problem is she doesn't have the certification, credentials or education to be a "therapist." People wi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

rrmoderator - Does Byron use the term 'LGAT' as you have implied in your post? Just curious... Also, are you seriously asking if she is licensed, etc? If so, to the best of my knowledge she is not - does that mean something to you if she isn't? I know a lot of 'licensed' individuals in a vast array of professions - licensure has not meant much in many cases. lo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Madshus: LGATs seem to have inherent problems built into their structure and dynamics. See Byron Katie says her LGAT is a "therapy-like setting." But is she a licensed, credentialed and qualified therapist?
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

A cult or guru has to offer up some goodies, real or imagined, to get people interested. Without some bait on the hook, who would show up? EZ
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

While there is a lot of controversy around LGAT's, I think it's essential not to fall into the mindset of 'everything is bad if it has LGAT traits', etc. Katie Byron is someone who is worthy of giving honest attention to and fair & objective examination of, in my opinion. And it looks like TIME magazine even thought along the same lines...
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I see the similarities, especially in reframing and reality questioning, and also some significant differences between Katie and some other LGATs. Three big ones: money, control of materials and focus on doing the stuff in meetings. On money, at the Landmark thing I went to, I was amazed at the anabashed emphasis on transferring money from the attendees to Landmark. I sat there in awe as the f
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

That's right! BK uses attendees to "demonstrate". I get the idea that the subject feels the need to give the answer BK wants. Ya think? The effect, then, on the viewers is that BK just "turned around" the person and banished their woes. All in a matter of minutes. Like magic. The very doing of a (magic) show has a special effect on viewers. The CD I got at t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoteskeptic Yeh, same as the LGAT. Inhuman expectations and standards. Thanks for that article. Yep. Sounds like just another way to ~reframe~ or re-"contextualize" or dissociate or disengage from reality, despite her claim to be grounded in reality. A nother psycho/cogno switch/flip designed to make you feel better by ~creating~ a different reality, as though your in
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quote I wonder if a mere mortal can achieve either trait. Yeh, same as the LGAT. Inhuman expectations and standards. Thanks for that article.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here's a story from the Los Angeles Times Sunday magazine from a couple of years ago. I posted a link to it above and thought I sent it to Rick but I don't see it in his data base. November 24, 2002 How a Self-Help Guru Is Born Once Depressed, Overweight and Volatile, Byron Katie Awoke One Morning to the Sensation of a Cockroach Walking Across Her Foot--and Found Herse
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Gulab Jamon, One thing about BK is that her "work" seems to be about mind games. Very similar to the LGAT I was involved with. Questioning what's true, what's real. Reframing. And while there is good (therapeutic) work in that vein, (BK, IMO, and) LGATS misapply, twist and misuse, as has been so well explained on this board. I still can't explain it the way I
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I've been to one of Byron Katie's talks and I enjoyed it. I don't think she should be worshipped as a goddess, as Grace seems to think, but I also don't think her teachings are harmful as Skeptic seems to think. I also have the same CD skeptic has (I assume), but I confess I've never listened to it. I have, however, attended a "The Work" workshop that was
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I was very glad to find this thread as I recently read Katie's first book and find myself attracted to key elements of her philosophy. I am way over on the skeptic side of the bench, and there are definitely cultish features about Katie and her stuff. The woman is apparently exceptionally charismatic, and it will be surprising if she does not succumb to the appeal of gurudom (if she hasn
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Byron Katie is as twisted, magical, illogical and irrational as any LGAT, per the glimpse I've gotten of her at one of her "workshops" (or whatever it was) and the CD we all got a copy of. Later, I'll try to post excerpts from the CD. She's verrrrrrry LGAT-ish, IMO.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

:) Byron Katie is the real deal. She is speaking from a place of total appreciation of life. She is the one of the most courages truth tellers I have ever met. :)
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"