ralpher: In your eagerness to post defenses of Byron Katie on this thread you have gone a bit over the top. Most people don't worry about being "randomly killed," "home invaded" and so on. And Katie really isn't qualified to deal with phobias, fears, etc. People concerned about such issues are better and more safely served by a helping professional, such
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

How did you know Guru X doesn't do his own errands? How do you know he doesn't get yelled at in supermarkets? How do you know he doesn't change his 90 year old father's diapers back home? People seem to be yelling at the gurus all the time! Just check out this blog. I've never met anyone who isn't under the daily threat of death. Show me someone who isn't
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The thing with the Israelian woman is, Byron did not ask her if she was 100% sure that a bomb was going to be dropped on her or if her feelings were realistic. Byron asked if the woman was 100% sure that she was afraid of war. Of course she was sure of what she felt. Convincing people that they do not feel what they feel, don't want what they want, don't think what they think can cause
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You guys are playing God. Are you enjoying yourselves? Your position boils down to: no one should say the things that these people are saying, because they're not true and no one should have to listen to things that are not true. Since when do we need to be protected from what people say? This country was founded on two principles: 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

yes vlinden, all the analysis really comes down to basics. In terms of the Big Name New Agers, without exception its about the money. They may delude themselves on some-level, but most of them know what they are doing is a con-game. Its about the money. Money is very important, it pays their bills, mortgage, cars, trips, islands, planes, jewels... They freaking love that Big Easy Money.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anti-Cult Thanks, I was going to say all of that but didn't have the energy. See, this is my point, where is the poison hidden? Someone without the knowledge base might accept Ralphers statement as fact without verification. The New Age is just ridden with people making these kinds of pronouncements, false statements so dramatic that they pass as wisdom to those who don't know bet
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, It's Popper, who you quote yourself, who argues that science can't verify. Einstein has never been, and never will be, verified. We will accept his work, provisionally, until someone does refute it. Remember Newton? And yes, the person--or computer--that does refute a key element of Einstein's thinking will win the nobel prize, if we haven't all drowned by the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, that is Epistemology. It is correct that in philosophy of science nothing can be known to be 100% true with Certitude. But its false to say we can't verify, and only refute. That is a mental-con and false-statement. Is that from Byron Katie? Science is based on both falsification and verification. Einstein's Relativity has been VERIFIED thousands of times, and NEVER
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher, It's interesting that you managed two long responses to me without once addressing the question I asked about the vase of flowers, and without addressing what I considered to be the most important problems with Byron Katie. This dissuades me from dealing with your responses piece by piece. Plus I don't have much time right now, and I think you're pretty sold on Byron a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And one more thing, Linden: You say: " The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc." Actually, that's exactly the issue. Questions are the most significant phenomena--in addition to a good laugh--that makes us human. They are our most powerful tool. Perhaps the most powerful tool of all i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for being open enough to ask a question--if you really mean it as a question. I'm going to treat it as one. What kind of logic is necessary? Well, I think that the most important logical, rational tool is the one tries to find the meanings that are intended by the speaker. Perhaps the most important such tool is sometimes called the principle of charity: you attribute a meaning to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc. The problem with Byron Katie is that she supports the New Age perspective that people should live in some altered state of consciousness (called grace, I believe) that is without all of the "negative" states that Katie herself could not handle, and therefore ended up
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher: You write: For example, someone, whether it's BK or my friend, suggests to me that despite abuse I suffered, I was also an abuser. If I have no boundaries, this will hurt, I will take it literally, I will get extremely angry, I will feel as if it is true and yet have no way to counter the bitterness of it. It's way too much at once. I will have no choice but to react again
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: I will watch for others personally attacking you, but be honest, you are not here for a discussion, rather just to defend Katie. FYI--Bashing people that feel they were damaged by Katie by offering your amateur psychoanalysis making them somehow responsible for their own injury is a type of personal attack. BTW--Substituting Katie for legitimate professional counseling and thera
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

rr moderator: Please explain the following: A) your failure to admonish others, who are engaging in personal attacks; B) what specifically you mean by 'personal attack' in relation to this message. Perhaps it's obvious to you (lots of things seem obvious to some of the posters on this board--perhaps it's your style?). R
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: First and last warning. Remember, personal attacks are against the rules.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'm fascinated by some of the angry, ranting-type responses to the variety of teachers out there. Some of these teachers are extraordinary--Byron Katie for example--and I mean that in a positive way. I have tried several forms of therapy, including stuff focusing on PTSD--nothing comes close to Katie's work. But what I really want to say is that those angry voices here are giving
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Do you know what is even more insane than Byron Katie. People who believe in free will and at the same time hold the Calvinist ie current born again doctrine of pre-destination. In other words, they believe that God has already determined the outcome of their life, but have free will to change it. Now that's insane. Or how about the classic Campus Crusade for Christ line from the four
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

golder6716: It seems like your only purpose here is to defend Byron Katie and Tolle.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Do you know what is even more insane than Byron Katie. People who believe in free will and at the same time hold the Calvinist ie current born again doctrine of pre-destination. In other words, they believe that God has already determined the outcome of their life, but have free will to change it. Now that's insane. Or how about the classic Campus Crusade for Christ line from the fou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotevlindenAnd another thing, Senor Luc, Let me be right up front and tell you that I don't appreciate your attack nor do I particularly need it in my life at the moment. Nor did I ask for your twisted psychological diagnosis (in fact, it reminds me Landmark's or Byron Katie's reversal of reality -- are you a disciple of hers??), so save that for your patients who pay you. I
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

And another thing, Senor Luc, Let me be right up front and tell you that I don't appreciate your attack nor do I particularly need it in my life at the moment. Nor did I ask for your twisted psychological diagnosis (in fact, it reminds me Landmark's or Byron Katie's reversal of reality -- are you a disciple of hers??), so save that for your patients who pay you. I just weathe
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuotevlindenThanks, Skeptic. I know what you mean, it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, or some Twilight Zone episode. At this point anyone I date, or any roommate I might have, or . . . shit, I don't care, even if someone is about to change my spark plugs, I think I'm going to have to ask up front if they're affiliated with any LGAT or guru . . . it's everywhere
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Thanks, Skeptic. I know what you mean, it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, or some Twilight Zone episode. At this point anyone I date, or any roommate I might have, or . . . shit, I don't care, even if someone is about to change my spark plugs, I think I'm going to have to ask up front if they're affiliated with any LGAT or guru . . . it's everywhere . . . Ma
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

vlinden - I think this stuff is fascinating too. And horrifying, because, as you've observed, its reach is far, wide and deep. I run like hell when I sense it anywhere near me. I attempted therapy a couple times after the lgat and when the therapists endorsed crap like the "Secret", I wondered, "is there anywhere or anyone that isn't contaminated with this sh*t?".
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hey, thanks Skeptic. I think you're pretty insightful as well so don't underestimate your own posts on this board. However, I'm really floored by Nutrino, who doesn't post anymore. Where did he go? I'm going to put a post looking for him, maybe he's lurking around. Truthfully I feel like I've spent a fair bit of my time here screaming and raging, whining and
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

vlinden, let me know if you write your book because I'd like a copy. I could read your writing forever. You have a way of describing and exposing and zeroing in on the new-age insanity that I love to read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What you've written about Katie here knocks my socks off! skeptic
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

WARNING: The process you are considering subjecting yourself to uses known techniques of mind control. As a result, you will likely lose your ability to know that your mind is no longer your own, or under your control. But, frighteningly, you will THINK you freely and willingly CHOSE your new thoughts, your new self, your new life. IT'S A HOAX! BUYER BEWARE.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Golfer, I am sorry you've fallen for whatever kernels of truth Byron Katie uses to suck people toward her black hole of madness, and now you feel you need to defend her. I feel I need to defend truth. I'm posting here, below, what I posted on another section of this board. With all due respect, none of your points matter, nor are they logical. I'm not talking about other phon
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

After reading about Byron Katie on this board, I was interested to see her in action. Here is a link showing a session with an Israeli woman who tells Katie that she's afraid of war. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwerzf5gIH0 I've never seen anything so insane in my life, outside of a mental institution. I've watched other videos and read parts of her writing, and now I am just stun
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"