whoops, my quote above should say.... "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is". (not isn't!) ------------ its true we can never really know if they really believe their own lies. Of course its always possible they are in their own little delusional world, and someone else is running the business, like a Svengali behind the scenes. Maybe Stephen Mitchell is run
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

It's interesting because I've had some experience with people who were sort of in an altered state of temporary grace, for lack of a better term. And it's kind of like being in the"zone" that athletes talk about, or the place people get to who can tight rope walk over a massive gorge -- someplace where they really are totally "at one" with the larger creation to
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

jj, thx for the fascinating info. for what its worth, often just posting/writing can help a person get their own thoughts-voice back, over time. I think you are right on the money when you say Byron Katie gets people to doubt all of their own thinking, so then she can take over. Its very dangerous to start doubting all of your own thinking. What else do we have in life? I can't express
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"One way to tell if the leader believes their own "teachings" is to see if they live according to what they "teach". I wonder if Katie applies her absurd, ridiculous crap in her own REAL, HUMAN life." I really don't know what goes on inside of her head, but after you've talked with her for awhile, it seems very apparent that she is completely ignorant of
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

jj, thx for the great info. Even the 'outsider' perspective of someone like myself can have value, as I have not been sucked into the vortex of Byron Katie mind-distortion. I can look at it with fresh eyes, and when you do, its clear they are just running the same type of business operation as are hundreds of others. Its great you could see how hubby Stephen Mitchell is also an e
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

JJ52: I also did Katie's 9 day school. Your comments on it are very much your own, and you're entitled to them. But I would suggest that you reconsider some of your accusations. For example, and I won't speak for every school, but mine was was recent, so I'm going to assume it represents something similar to the one you went to. And yet in mine: Fasting took place, and t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Anti-cult, The author Stephen Mitchell is her husband. When I was trying to figure out what was happening to me, I contacted Katie with questions. Stephen responded... And let me tell you, his attempts to make me question myself got so ridiculous that I just quit responding to him at all. He's the one who writes her books. There's a woman named Paula who appears to running everyt
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

It just occurred to me to wonder about the origin of the phrase "crazy like a fox". It seems that even in ancient times, people noticed that certain people seemed to act "crazy" yet somehow came away with the chickens! So even in ancient times, people noticed that some folks pretended to be a bit "crazy" but were actually very crafty and smart, like a fox, who out
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Wow! I really appreciate that post, corboy. I was asked to come join this thread after posting earlier today in the LGAT forum under "Byron Katie and The Work/serious concerns." You can read my post here: Or click here, and hopefully the link works. I've read through this discussion, and ralpher appears to be gone... But I just wanted to clarify. I've been to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Oh - one more thing. Jj52 thinks Katie sincerely believes what she teaches. For quite some time, after getting out of the lgat, I pondered whether the leader really believed the CRAP he peddled. After thinking about the way he lived his life (what I could see) and reading about sociopaths, I have come to the conclusion that he did NOT believe what he taught. One way to tell if the leader
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here is the direct link to the other Byron Katie thread. Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit?? and here is a search of this forum for Byron Katie to catch any other posts and threads. Thanks for bringing this thread up, as I had not seen it. The weird thing about these groups, is that even though the Leader may appear to be a flake, someone very very sane and savvy is r
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Katie not only has a school, she just launched a 28 day residency program called "The Turnaround House", where people pay $20,000 a pop to have their thoughts questioned. It's supposed to be akin to a rehab. Oh man. Can you imagine someone addicted to drugs going there to get clean? Whoo... I think her books are the hook, line, and sinker. They seem innocent enough... very caref
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

jj52: Thank you for posting all of this. It's very important. This board is, in my opinion, one of the most important resources on the web, for all the reasons you've stated. But it needs ever more input from people who have direct experience, like you. Many people here have sat on the sidelines helplessly watching someone we love get sucked into a cult or LGAT. Check out the thre
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

(Pause for Station Identification) Found some items for continuing education for those interested. They can be applied to many situations, far beyond RR.com. What follows is copied from the website Butterflies and Wheels in an article on rhetoric: -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Woolly-Thinker's Guide to Rhetoric Be Courageous
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

jj52, Thank *you* for your post! Wow! I didn't know Katie has a school! It sounds like a true lgat. I wouldn't call her talks or books lgats in themselves, even though the perspective and "thinking" she teaches is NUTTY and out of touch with reality like lgats, because, as vlinden has pointed out, the subject/audience/reader isn't isolated and the environment manip
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

First, I want to tell you that finding your message here was a real blessing. I've been searching the internet off and on for months hoping to find something about Byron Katie and The Work relating to recovery from cults. I think your concerns are perfectly legitimate. From the first time I read the first chapter in her book "Loving What Is", I knew something was horribly wrong, bu
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

These guys never provide any proof for anything...they are too smart for that. That could get them in trouble. What they do is tell vague STORIES. They all do the same thing. Eckhart Tolle: says he was miserable, then became Enlightened, so BUY his products to be Happy like him. Byron Katie: miserable and depressed, attained Enlightenment, BUY her stuff to be happy like she is now 24/7.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Is there any proof at all to substantiate Katie's story? The mental ward she was locked in? (Or was it an attic?). Anything?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher has shown the logical-fallacies and methods of those who are shilling for Byron Katie. Ralpher is following the Byron Katie internet playbook, so it does show how they operate, so does that have some value? ----------------------- Looking more into Byron Katie, its actually more disturbing than at first glance. What moves her from simply a New Age money-maker into a type of culty-G
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah, he's been messaging me too. I think the apologist are actually very important to this board, however. Vital, actually. So I guess it's up to you as moderator to decide when to draw the line. I think if someone is doing nothing but posting press releases for some guru or LGAT, it makes sense to ban them. But if they're arguing or debating perhaps it does seem unfair to cens
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To whom it may concern: It seems ralpher may be abusing the private messaging system. He is now very close to being banned from this message board. If anyone sees any value in approving his rants and/or attacks let me know, but it doesn't seem to me that he has anything of much value to offer at this point. Chanting his guru various slogans and mantras over and over again and att
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here's the deal with Byron Katie. She is a businesswoman and entrepreneur, in partnership with the hubby co-writer. She is a very good salesperson, and manipulative persuader. She claims to have be suicidal for years, and then one day attained Enlightenment by her Magic Technique. that's her STORY. Her technique is exactly the false ideas being thrown around in this thread, based
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy, Your description of the cell phones going off on the dead victims of the Israeli bomb attack gave me chills all over. God, what a horrible image. I have many relatives in Israel, one beautiful young cousin who almost lost his eye recently to shrapnel. He's a soldier. There is another thread somewhere that talks about the "power of negative thinking" and people interes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whoa boy! I just read this one from Ralpher: Since ideas can't hurt people, all of these gurus are well within their rights to sell their stuff. It's a business to them, in addition to being a nice way to spend their time, and downright helpful a lot of the time to some of the people. Okay, take one BIG mo'foing step back right now, Ralpher, I think we found the error muy gra
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Our local Byron Katie promoter's comments about 'science' are totally false. One does wonder if that disinformation come right from Byron Katie herself? But the only thing our Byron Katie promoter said about the world of the New Age Teachers that I agree with was this... _________________________ 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others' away. ___________________
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No, I"m not going to stop posting, I'm just not going to continue engaging with Ralpher. It's interesting how I'm not supposed to judge Byron Katie, I'm not supposed to judge him, I'm not supposed to feel we can "know" anything. Sometimes I wonder why the good lord dun give me a brain 'tween my ears! Of course I was giving Ralpher the benefit of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

vlinden: Remember that the purpose of an Internet troll is often to subvert a thread, e.g. chase people off. Don't allow ralpher to do that if you are interested in this topic.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: Some of your posts have not been approved because they are little more than flames. See the rules. Be honest, you are here on a mission, not so much for any meaningful exchange of ideas, but rather as a defender of Katie. Can you think of anything wrong with Byron Katie?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That's fine with me dude, sayonara. But take this with you: it is absolutely abusive, in any form of relationship, to insist that you know what is in someone's head better than they do. To insist that they aren't being honest, or know something that you know, without checking it out, asking them, is truly to abuse. So who is being more abusive, Byron Katie on that tape, when
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And finally, my response to the flower incident: Byron Katie was possibly challenging the woman to say why she should react differently from the flower. That could have led to an interesting exchange, and then we'd know much more about what BK meant. Unfortunately, the woman on camera did not pick up the point, and so we can't really know what she meant by it. She might have meant to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"