Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: April 15, 2006 07:47PM
Colter:
I don't consider AA a "cult" and have never said otherwise.
No complaints have come to the Ross Institute from families claiming AA somehow "brainwashed" a family member.
I think your analogy fairly accurate. That a group of drunks meeting to drink on a regular basis and reinforcing that behavior exert substantial influence, in a negative sense.
AA meethings exert influence, but in a positive way.
Exerting influence does not mean a group is a "cult."
I have met a number of people helped by AA and appreciate the good work AA has done and continues to do.
There is no authoritarian leader such as a David Koresh, Rev. Moon or Jim Jones leading AA and it is not organized like a cult.
Having a God of your own understanding, is also too vague to fit the rigid patterns of cult belief and indoctrination.
I don't consider AA a "cult" and have never said otherwise.
No complaints have come to the Ross Institute from families claiming AA somehow "brainwashed" a family member.
I think your analogy fairly accurate. That a group of drunks meeting to drink on a regular basis and reinforcing that behavior exert substantial influence, in a negative sense.
AA meethings exert influence, but in a positive way.
Exerting influence does not mean a group is a "cult."
I have met a number of people helped by AA and appreciate the good work AA has done and continues to do.
There is no authoritarian leader such as a David Koresh, Rev. Moon or Jim Jones leading AA and it is not organized like a cult.
Having a God of your own understanding, is also too vague to fit the rigid patterns of cult belief and indoctrination.
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
bonnie
()
Date: April 16, 2006 08:58AM
I beg to differ with you, RR.
"Cult" or not, AA meetings vary greatly from place to place and at different times.
These are the reasons I call the organization "cult-like":
1.There is extensive use of slogans and "stop-think" techniques.
2.New members are constantly admonished to turn off their critical thinking and "surrender" to God, the group, and their sponser.
3. Meetings almost always have a high percentage of predatory individuals looking for a naive victim to take advantage of.
4. The threat of death or a return to active alcoholism is used constantly (at each meeting and outside of meetings) to keep people from leaving the program.
5. Members are constantly encouraged to recruit, recruit, recruit new members.
6. Members are encouraged to tell their sponser and the group intimate details of their behavior and thinking. This produces a false sense of intimacy with the group, and causes a boundary collapse in many cases.
Information is also passed from member and used to exploit the more naive members, (often for money and sex).
7. Our court system orders people to go to AA and NA, both of which are undeniably religious organizations.
Compliance within AA is achieved by subtle methods, in particular the widely held belief (among AA members) that an alcoholic [b:5b1866eb64]must[/b:5b1866eb64] go to meetings [b:5b1866eb64]for life[/b:5b1866eb64], or he will [b:5b1866eb64]die[/b:5b1866eb64], and that unless he recruits others, he will relapse and die drunk.
IMO, this is exactly the same sort of coercion that is practiced by the cults you do recognize as such.
So what if the public is unaware of what goes on, and whether or not you have not recieved any complaints?
How many people are going to complain that the drunken, abusive idiot they knew has changed into a slogan-spouting, meeting addicted AA junkie? To the family, I'm sure the change is often a welcome one.
Not to mention the fact that most people are embarassed to even feel the necessity to go to meetings; it's unlikely that they are going to gripe about what happened there to anyone but another AA member.
Besides, AA is supposed to be anonymous. At every meeting, members are told not to reveal what goes on there, who is present, etc., etc.
Anyone with any sense of loyalty is obviously going to be reluctant to talk about any abuses.
The other members will also tell you that anything that happens to you is your own fault. That's written into the steps, and is constantly reinforced in the big book.
"Take your own inventory".
"Resentment (against those who have harmed us) is our greatest fault."
If you are angry because someone harmed you, the big book says that [b:5b1866eb64]you[/b:5b1866eb64] have to make amends to that person.
"Cult" or not, AA meetings vary greatly from place to place and at different times.
These are the reasons I call the organization "cult-like":
1.There is extensive use of slogans and "stop-think" techniques.
2.New members are constantly admonished to turn off their critical thinking and "surrender" to God, the group, and their sponser.
3. Meetings almost always have a high percentage of predatory individuals looking for a naive victim to take advantage of.
4. The threat of death or a return to active alcoholism is used constantly (at each meeting and outside of meetings) to keep people from leaving the program.
5. Members are constantly encouraged to recruit, recruit, recruit new members.
6. Members are encouraged to tell their sponser and the group intimate details of their behavior and thinking. This produces a false sense of intimacy with the group, and causes a boundary collapse in many cases.
Information is also passed from member and used to exploit the more naive members, (often for money and sex).
7. Our court system orders people to go to AA and NA, both of which are undeniably religious organizations.
Compliance within AA is achieved by subtle methods, in particular the widely held belief (among AA members) that an alcoholic [b:5b1866eb64]must[/b:5b1866eb64] go to meetings [b:5b1866eb64]for life[/b:5b1866eb64], or he will [b:5b1866eb64]die[/b:5b1866eb64], and that unless he recruits others, he will relapse and die drunk.
IMO, this is exactly the same sort of coercion that is practiced by the cults you do recognize as such.
So what if the public is unaware of what goes on, and whether or not you have not recieved any complaints?
How many people are going to complain that the drunken, abusive idiot they knew has changed into a slogan-spouting, meeting addicted AA junkie? To the family, I'm sure the change is often a welcome one.
Not to mention the fact that most people are embarassed to even feel the necessity to go to meetings; it's unlikely that they are going to gripe about what happened there to anyone but another AA member.
Besides, AA is supposed to be anonymous. At every meeting, members are told not to reveal what goes on there, who is present, etc., etc.
Anyone with any sense of loyalty is obviously going to be reluctant to talk about any abuses.
The other members will also tell you that anything that happens to you is your own fault. That's written into the steps, and is constantly reinforced in the big book.
"Take your own inventory".
"Resentment (against those who have harmed us) is our greatest fault."
If you are angry because someone harmed you, the big book says that [b:5b1866eb64]you[/b:5b1866eb64] have to make amends to that person.
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: April 16, 2006 08:24PM
Bonnie:
As a staff member of Jewish Family Service in the 1980s and coordinator of its Jewish Prisoner Program for Arizona, I dealt extensively with AA.
Many of the Jewish prisoners had drinking or drug problems and went to either AA or NA as a support group.
I attended some meetings to find out what they were like anonymously and saw nothing wrong or supect.
And there were no complaints regardng AA or NA.
Some people I have known over the years have attended AA.
Again, no problems and no complaints, such as you have outlined.
I have received many complaints over the years regarding people that had a substance abuse problem and then joined a cult or cult-like group.
In a sense they went from one addiction to another.
There are groups listed on the database such as Synanon, Set Free, Teen Challenge, Victory Outreach and the Scientology-linked Narconon program that spcifically may fit in this category and address such substance abuse problems.
Please understand that the way groups may manipulate substance abuse problems for the recruitment and retention of members is extensively discussed within the Ross Institute database through articles within a number of group subsections.
At times a particular person my use AA, much like cult leaders have used Christianity, Judaism or Islam, as a means to create a personality-driven cult.
A former AA person Chuck Anderson created something called the "Endeavor Academy," which in part he based upon both his experience in AA and a book called "A Course in Miracles."
See [www.culteducation.com]
Again, I don't receive complaints about AA meetings or AA from families, spouses, etc. concerned that AA has somehow "brainwashed" a loved one and/or is manipulating and controlling them.
There certainly is an effort to influence people in AA, but it is not deceptive and represents no threat similar to a destructive cult that I have observed.
See [www.culteducation.com]
AA seems to posses some aspects of both education and Indoctrination, but without authoritarian organized control.
Perhaps they do hope to "retain people forever" as cited within Thought Reform, but that appears to be the only aspect AA may posses in that category of persuasion.
We seem to disagree about AA.
Though my work goes back to 1982, perhaps at some time in the future the type of problems you report will take the form of specific complaints, which might provide a basis for me to reconsider my position regarding AA.
But until then my postion is that I see AA and NA as benign support groups, which I have and would again recommend to people with a substance abuse problem.
Though I would also recommend that someone in that situation seek help through a rehab/hospital setting with professional counseling provided from someone specializing in the area of substance abuse such as a spcifically trained clinical psychologist.
As a staff member of Jewish Family Service in the 1980s and coordinator of its Jewish Prisoner Program for Arizona, I dealt extensively with AA.
Many of the Jewish prisoners had drinking or drug problems and went to either AA or NA as a support group.
I attended some meetings to find out what they were like anonymously and saw nothing wrong or supect.
And there were no complaints regardng AA or NA.
Some people I have known over the years have attended AA.
Again, no problems and no complaints, such as you have outlined.
I have received many complaints over the years regarding people that had a substance abuse problem and then joined a cult or cult-like group.
In a sense they went from one addiction to another.
There are groups listed on the database such as Synanon, Set Free, Teen Challenge, Victory Outreach and the Scientology-linked Narconon program that spcifically may fit in this category and address such substance abuse problems.
Please understand that the way groups may manipulate substance abuse problems for the recruitment and retention of members is extensively discussed within the Ross Institute database through articles within a number of group subsections.
At times a particular person my use AA, much like cult leaders have used Christianity, Judaism or Islam, as a means to create a personality-driven cult.
A former AA person Chuck Anderson created something called the "Endeavor Academy," which in part he based upon both his experience in AA and a book called "A Course in Miracles."
See [www.culteducation.com]
Again, I don't receive complaints about AA meetings or AA from families, spouses, etc. concerned that AA has somehow "brainwashed" a loved one and/or is manipulating and controlling them.
There certainly is an effort to influence people in AA, but it is not deceptive and represents no threat similar to a destructive cult that I have observed.
See [www.culteducation.com]
AA seems to posses some aspects of both education and Indoctrination, but without authoritarian organized control.
Perhaps they do hope to "retain people forever" as cited within Thought Reform, but that appears to be the only aspect AA may posses in that category of persuasion.
We seem to disagree about AA.
Though my work goes back to 1982, perhaps at some time in the future the type of problems you report will take the form of specific complaints, which might provide a basis for me to reconsider my position regarding AA.
But until then my postion is that I see AA and NA as benign support groups, which I have and would again recommend to people with a substance abuse problem.
Though I would also recommend that someone in that situation seek help through a rehab/hospital setting with professional counseling provided from someone specializing in the area of substance abuse such as a spcifically trained clinical psychologist.
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
bonnie
()
Date: April 17, 2006 06:33AM
It does not seem to be any particular individual, but the basic set-up of the AA meetings and program that makes it vulnerable to exploitation by manipulative people.
The language and philosophy of the Big Book and the AA meeting are frequently used by the more predatory AA members to disarm, manipulate, and exploit newcomers and the more naive AA members.
There is no governing body or officer to prevent this from happening.
As for the founders, there is much information on the narcissistic and exploitive personality traits of Bill Wilson available on the web. He did in many ways form a cult around himself, in the beginning. Although there is no living "guru" at the head of AA today, there is a pervasive attitude among many members that the Big Book is a "holy" scripture, and that the 12-step program is "the last house on the street".
In AA, as in life, it pays to keep your wits about you and [b:e777be6152] not[/b:e777be6152] surrender your critical thinking, which many older members frequently admonish the newcomer to do.
AA is not all bad, but it is dangerous. I believe that it warrants observation to the same degree that the organizations recognized as destructive on this website do.
The language and philosophy of the Big Book and the AA meeting are frequently used by the more predatory AA members to disarm, manipulate, and exploit newcomers and the more naive AA members.
There is no governing body or officer to prevent this from happening.
As for the founders, there is much information on the narcissistic and exploitive personality traits of Bill Wilson available on the web. He did in many ways form a cult around himself, in the beginning. Although there is no living "guru" at the head of AA today, there is a pervasive attitude among many members that the Big Book is a "holy" scripture, and that the 12-step program is "the last house on the street".
In AA, as in life, it pays to keep your wits about you and [b:e777be6152] not[/b:e777be6152] surrender your critical thinking, which many older members frequently admonish the newcomer to do.
AA is not all bad, but it is dangerous. I believe that it warrants observation to the same degree that the organizations recognized as destructive on this website do.
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
Colter
()
Date: April 17, 2006 09:57AM
Hello Bonnie and others,
This is a very interesting topic considering my life long membership of AA. I'm also a Urantia Book reader and have studied all the major religions of the world. I'm a member of a Presbyterian church mainly for the sake of my wife and children but my primary spiritual focus is the quest for truth and meaning in life anywhere it may be found.
In Bonnies notably slanted analysis of AA there [b:cce226f39a]IS [/b:cce226f39a]a vein of truth running through it. AA is composed of people with problems, we are a depository of derelict, drunken, drug addicted, sex addicted troubled people. That's why were in AA. We're all here because were not all there.
What has been omitted from this discussion of the 12 steps, the Ego deflation of the alcoholic, the dependence upon a higher power, confessing our wrongs, making amends to those we hurt through our selfishness, prayer and meditation, and unselfish service to others is AA's 12 Traditions.
If the steps weren't remarkable enough this group of problem people is shielded from the typical self destruction of such well intentioned organizations by way of our voluntary traditions.
THE TWELVE TRADITIONS
1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
5. Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
Within AA, as Bonnie has rightly pointed out, there can be abuses by [b:cce226f39a]individuals[/b:cce226f39a] whom are still spiritually sick themselves. These manipulations are not an institutional flaw but rather our flaws as people.
In meetings their can be "power driving" individuals whose persistent insecurities lead them to dominate the group. Such behavior is part of the spiritual disease of the addictive personality. Contrast that with the other extreme the "needy" or "dependant" individual whom are likely to be attracted to the "guru" types.
There is the common problem of the "big bad wolf" and "little red riding hood." Boy meets girl on AA campus and the intimate meshing of neurosis is the result. This sort of thing is discouraged by the wise and predatory behavior is disdained where I come from but truth is it takes two to tango. Contrary to societal myth woman are horny to. :wink:
Having been part of a rigid (self righteous) AA group for several years I can sympathize with Bonnies assessment. The whole experience was healthy for me in that I finally reached that day of freedom where I could see I had grown beyond the need for such and I could see the negative influence of the "fundamentalist" group. I was free to move to a group more to my liking and became more mature as a result.
I have probably been to several thousand AA meetings over the years. I have thoroughly researched the history of the movement, biographies of Bill Wilson and gang etc. Often in spiritual movements such as AA or religious sects participants don't take the time to actually read core doctrines, scriptures etc. I have a good grasp on what AA is and what it is not. When I see abuses going on I have no qualm with calling such abuse out publicly, in fact I feel I have an obligation to younger members to keep an eye out for them.
There is a typical paranoia of the alcoholic personality who tends to think everyone is out to get them. In my group there is a young man who had a period of sobriety but then latched on to an "AA is a cult guru." He left the program got drunk for a couple of years and came back to strengthen us with his experience. It was great for me because I have been through that phase. The mind of the rationalizing alcoholic will find the most trivial of reason to quit AA and get drunk.
The truth about alcoholism is that most of us die drunk. It is a disease whose chief characteristic is to tell us we don't have it. Whatever the short comings may be of 12 step programs there is nothing to prevent us from sticking with the healthy core and helping others to do the same
Colter
This is a very interesting topic considering my life long membership of AA. I'm also a Urantia Book reader and have studied all the major religions of the world. I'm a member of a Presbyterian church mainly for the sake of my wife and children but my primary spiritual focus is the quest for truth and meaning in life anywhere it may be found.
In Bonnies notably slanted analysis of AA there [b:cce226f39a]IS [/b:cce226f39a]a vein of truth running through it. AA is composed of people with problems, we are a depository of derelict, drunken, drug addicted, sex addicted troubled people. That's why were in AA. We're all here because were not all there.
What has been omitted from this discussion of the 12 steps, the Ego deflation of the alcoholic, the dependence upon a higher power, confessing our wrongs, making amends to those we hurt through our selfishness, prayer and meditation, and unselfish service to others is AA's 12 Traditions.
If the steps weren't remarkable enough this group of problem people is shielded from the typical self destruction of such well intentioned organizations by way of our voluntary traditions.
THE TWELVE TRADITIONS
1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
5. Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
Within AA, as Bonnie has rightly pointed out, there can be abuses by [b:cce226f39a]individuals[/b:cce226f39a] whom are still spiritually sick themselves. These manipulations are not an institutional flaw but rather our flaws as people.
In meetings their can be "power driving" individuals whose persistent insecurities lead them to dominate the group. Such behavior is part of the spiritual disease of the addictive personality. Contrast that with the other extreme the "needy" or "dependant" individual whom are likely to be attracted to the "guru" types.
There is the common problem of the "big bad wolf" and "little red riding hood." Boy meets girl on AA campus and the intimate meshing of neurosis is the result. This sort of thing is discouraged by the wise and predatory behavior is disdained where I come from but truth is it takes two to tango. Contrary to societal myth woman are horny to. :wink:
Having been part of a rigid (self righteous) AA group for several years I can sympathize with Bonnies assessment. The whole experience was healthy for me in that I finally reached that day of freedom where I could see I had grown beyond the need for such and I could see the negative influence of the "fundamentalist" group. I was free to move to a group more to my liking and became more mature as a result.
I have probably been to several thousand AA meetings over the years. I have thoroughly researched the history of the movement, biographies of Bill Wilson and gang etc. Often in spiritual movements such as AA or religious sects participants don't take the time to actually read core doctrines, scriptures etc. I have a good grasp on what AA is and what it is not. When I see abuses going on I have no qualm with calling such abuse out publicly, in fact I feel I have an obligation to younger members to keep an eye out for them.
There is a typical paranoia of the alcoholic personality who tends to think everyone is out to get them. In my group there is a young man who had a period of sobriety but then latched on to an "AA is a cult guru." He left the program got drunk for a couple of years and came back to strengthen us with his experience. It was great for me because I have been through that phase. The mind of the rationalizing alcoholic will find the most trivial of reason to quit AA and get drunk.
The truth about alcoholism is that most of us die drunk. It is a disease whose chief characteristic is to tell us we don't have it. Whatever the short comings may be of 12 step programs there is nothing to prevent us from sticking with the healthy core and helping others to do the same
Colter
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
bonnie
()
Date: April 18, 2006 05:16AM
Men often have a different perspective on what goes on in AA.
In Colter's notably slanted Pro-AA post he displays a typical "male" response to what he obviously percieves as being a "feminine" misconstruction.
I was told by one very old man about a slogan he and his friends used as young members of AA in regards to newcomer women; "Get 'em before God does!".
Contrary to societal myth, women do not always "want it", and coercion is coercion, regardless of whether or not it results in a "yes" or a "no".
It doesn't always take two to tango. Have you ever heard of rape?
Besides, I am not talking strictly about the seduction of newcomers, male or female.
There are other ways to take advantage of a needy newcomer.
[b:b5bd27fa64]The point I am making is that there is a percentage of AA members that tell a newcomer to give up his critical thinking and make the group their "higher power".
This often leads to a collapse of boundaries and makes the newcomer more vulnerable to exploitation of all kinds.[/b:b5bd27fa64]
Just because nothing bad happened to you personally doesn't mean that abuses don't exist.
In Colter's notably slanted Pro-AA post he displays a typical "male" response to what he obviously percieves as being a "feminine" misconstruction.
I was told by one very old man about a slogan he and his friends used as young members of AA in regards to newcomer women; "Get 'em before God does!".
Contrary to societal myth, women do not always "want it", and coercion is coercion, regardless of whether or not it results in a "yes" or a "no".
It doesn't always take two to tango. Have you ever heard of rape?
Besides, I am not talking strictly about the seduction of newcomers, male or female.
There are other ways to take advantage of a needy newcomer.
[b:b5bd27fa64]The point I am making is that there is a percentage of AA members that tell a newcomer to give up his critical thinking and make the group their "higher power".
This often leads to a collapse of boundaries and makes the newcomer more vulnerable to exploitation of all kinds.[/b:b5bd27fa64]
Just because nothing bad happened to you personally doesn't mean that abuses don't exist.
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
bonnie
()
Date: April 18, 2006 01:38PM
After re-reading the posts on this topic, I have a few comments to make.
First off, if anyone actually called AA a [b:a0a3e08ba9]cult[/b:a0a3e08ba9] on these pages, I missed it.
This does seem to be a discussion of whether or not AA shares some characteristics with destructive cults and religious organizations.
Secondly, there have been many mentions of the pressure towards [b:a0a3e08ba9]dependency[/b:a0a3e08ba9] upon the AA group, and the need for [b:a0a3e08ba9]lifetime membership[/b:a0a3e08ba9] and proselytizing.
Others are concerned about the way many AA members preach that AA is [b:a0a3e08ba9]"the only way"[/b:a0a3e08ba9] of overcoming alcoholism.
Another concern is the fact that AA, which claims to be a program of [b:a0a3e08ba9]"attraction rather than promotion"[/b:a0a3e08ba9], gains many [b:a0a3e08ba9]recruits[/b:a0a3e08ba9] through [b:a0a3e08ba9]the court system[/b:a0a3e08ba9], intentionally or otherwise.
Many people have found these observations troublesome and possible "red flags".
Then there is the matter of the [b:a0a3e08ba9]"exoteric creed"[/b:a0a3e08ba9];
Those who have never or rarely gone to meetings can easily surmise that it is a program intended to help or cure the alcoholic so he can live a normal or more productive life.
Those who have gone to many meetings and have actually tried to implement the steps are intimately aware of the fact that AA is a religious organization that requires [b:a0a3e08ba9]total dedication, submission, [/b:a0a3e08ba9](to the suggested steps and "God"),[b:a0a3e08ba9] and a lifetime commitment[/b:a0a3e08ba9] to spreading the message.
In other words, the [b:a0a3e08ba9]"secret agenda"[/b:a0a3e08ba9] is not publicized, although there are non-members who may be aware of it.
I noticed something about meetings and [b:a0a3e08ba9]pro-AA forums[/b:a0a3e08ba9];
Any posts that were not entirely pro-AA, any discussion of the ills of AA, any suggestion that AA might not be perfect is [b:a0a3e08ba9]not permitted[/b:a0a3e08ba9]!
First off, if anyone actually called AA a [b:a0a3e08ba9]cult[/b:a0a3e08ba9] on these pages, I missed it.
This does seem to be a discussion of whether or not AA shares some characteristics with destructive cults and religious organizations.
Secondly, there have been many mentions of the pressure towards [b:a0a3e08ba9]dependency[/b:a0a3e08ba9] upon the AA group, and the need for [b:a0a3e08ba9]lifetime membership[/b:a0a3e08ba9] and proselytizing.
Others are concerned about the way many AA members preach that AA is [b:a0a3e08ba9]"the only way"[/b:a0a3e08ba9] of overcoming alcoholism.
Another concern is the fact that AA, which claims to be a program of [b:a0a3e08ba9]"attraction rather than promotion"[/b:a0a3e08ba9], gains many [b:a0a3e08ba9]recruits[/b:a0a3e08ba9] through [b:a0a3e08ba9]the court system[/b:a0a3e08ba9], intentionally or otherwise.
Many people have found these observations troublesome and possible "red flags".
Then there is the matter of the [b:a0a3e08ba9]"exoteric creed"[/b:a0a3e08ba9];
Those who have never or rarely gone to meetings can easily surmise that it is a program intended to help or cure the alcoholic so he can live a normal or more productive life.
Those who have gone to many meetings and have actually tried to implement the steps are intimately aware of the fact that AA is a religious organization that requires [b:a0a3e08ba9]total dedication, submission, [/b:a0a3e08ba9](to the suggested steps and "God"),[b:a0a3e08ba9] and a lifetime commitment[/b:a0a3e08ba9] to spreading the message.
In other words, the [b:a0a3e08ba9]"secret agenda"[/b:a0a3e08ba9] is not publicized, although there are non-members who may be aware of it.
I noticed something about meetings and [b:a0a3e08ba9]pro-AA forums[/b:a0a3e08ba9];
Any posts that were not entirely pro-AA, any discussion of the ills of AA, any suggestion that AA might not be perfect is [b:a0a3e08ba9]not permitted[/b:a0a3e08ba9]!
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
Colter
()
Date: April 19, 2006 10:40AM
I've yet to meet anyone whose life was ruined by AA.
I've met alcoholics whose drinking was ruined by AA.
I've yet to meet an Alcoholic whose mental faculties were so superb that dependence on a group of drunks to stay sober adversely affected them.
AA is not for people who need it, it's for people who want it. If you don't want it by all means don't go.
Colter
I've met alcoholics whose drinking was ruined by AA.
I've yet to meet an Alcoholic whose mental faculties were so superb that dependence on a group of drunks to stay sober adversely affected them.
AA is not for people who need it, it's for people who want it. If you don't want it by all means don't go.
Colter
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
Gulab Jamon
()
Date: April 20, 2006 12:21AM
Quote
Colter
I've yet to meet anyone whose life was ruined by AA.
I guess you missed my post about my friend who got "13-stepped" by an AA member and went back to drinking?
Alcholics Anonymous should be regarded as a cult.
Posted by:
Colter
()
Date: April 20, 2006 02:03AM
Quote
Gulab JamonQuote
Colter
I've yet to meet anyone whose life was ruined by AA.
I guess you missed my post about my friend who got "13-stepped" by an AA member and went back to drinking?
13th stepping is not a part of the AA program. Your referring to the [b:7c478799b5]behavior of an individual[/b:7c478799b5], not AA.
Such immoral behavior is openly discouraged in AA meetings. It's not uncommon to here older members suggesting that new members avoid getting involved in new sexual relationships for at least one year after getting sober.
If by 13th steping your refering to rape the individual should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...........and he should have his butt kicked.
Colter
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