All I can comment are is based on my understanding of Judaism and a smattering of even some Kabbalah. The "passing of the seed" is a vile and disgusting concept if it is done as some sort of mutual masterbation practice. It has no basis what so ever in anything even remotely related to Torah observance. It is nothing more than a sexual act disguised as a religious practice to an innocent person. If it is done with or to a minor it is a felony. If two adults want to engage in that practice for their own satisfaction then I have no issue with that as it harms no one and is what they want. A belief in reincarnation or that an "old soul" might reside in a "new person" has nothing to do "passing the seed" as it has been described here. There are several books by Yonasson Gershom such as "Beyond the Ashes" that deal with the reincarnation of souls lost in the Holocaust. There is no connection to reincarnation and "passing the seed".

Marvin,
Cult leaders don't always make things up.
They usually borrow from religious or spiritual beliefs of other groups and then twist the beliefs into practices that suit them.
Do you suppose Jack or Gary ever twisted the belief of an ''old soul residing in a new person'' to suit their desire to pass seed to a minor??

Sally I wish I knew what drove them to do what they did. I'm not an expert on cult leaders so I can't say how they operate. From what I do know is that they take a kernel of truth and then grow it into something they can use for their own means. That way the people listening to them say "that sounds about right let's hear more". All part of a subtle brainwashing until you can't tell the truth from the lies. I know from my own experiences with Shoresh that once I left and had a few months to reflect I started doing my own research in my own way and came across to many inconsistencies to any longer say "well maybe it is true and I just don't understand it". What was very upsetting to me after several months "on my own" when I had time to reflect back on my life for the previous 10 years and was essentially left alone by any of my previous friends who stayed was how I came to be so deeply involved to that community and how my views of what was true Judaism were so different than what I was brought up in. Maybe it was because some things were "cool" like understanding secret teachings, being part of an inner circle, being considered special because I was a born Jew. I could go on and on but don't have the time now. Sorry for straying from the topic Sally. I guess joining the online site has awoken feelings and emotions I have not had for years and years.

Hi Marvin'
.....I, also left the SECT many years ago. We were told ,at that time , by JH , that all that was left for us was HELL for all eternity and everyone was instructed to SHUNN us. Now , after all these years ,I am still very, vary of any kind of organized religion ,due to ,I think the reactions of all our close friends at that time . They were obedient. even if they may have loved us.... It was heartless ,cruel... . they chose to do what they were told.....I think, in these sects. the main focus are the teachings.. aimed towards keeping the organization intact ..... keeping people obedient
and being sure the money continues to flow into the pockets of the leadership. So, I also, wonder about my old friends , but we have chosen very different lives ,what is there to say ???? It is important that all these strange teachings come forth and are discussed here , but the worst part is the oppressive, controlling structure of the SECT...

Marvin I have no problem with you straying off topic. I'm happy to hear about your thoughts. Goodness knows I've shared mine.
Nancy what a good reminder that financial exploitation is also a serious concern. I spend so much time and energy posting about the possibility of sexual exploitation that I often forget about financial exploitation.
I wonder what goes on still.

Marvin,

You are so right about cult leaders taking a kernel of truth. Back when we were in the cult Judaism was really popular and trendy and I think that's why it was a ''kernel'' that worked so well for JH. I realized that when you talked about the secret teachings being ''cool''. Remember ''kabalah'' teachings. Talk about cool. JH was ahead of Madonna....the cutting edge of cool really.
Part of me wonders if Gary isn't using some of the new age jargon these days. I personally think he uses Course in Miracles to control thought , a vegetarian diet to control daily habits and alien talk for...I don't know...maybe just to be cool and trendy. I don't know it for a fact. It's just something I've been piecing together.
I think Judaism and Kabalah is still probably inner circle stuff.

Sally you sound as if you know a lot about what's going on even today with them. Details like the name of a course Gary teaches, diet style and what's this about alien talk. This is so far out that it would be amusing if it weren't so serious. Based on my own experiences "back in the day" I would venture a guess that you are right on when you say Judaism and Kabalah are for the "inner circle". That's how it used to be. I am really amazed that after so many years I am finding out that this community is still striving. I am still trying to find out who among them has profiles on Facebook. That would be interesting to see. Thanks again for being so open.

i think we would about benefit from hearing from an eyewitness to the passing of the seed. anyone here?
whatever happened to the tsunami that was supposed to hit long island? wasn't it predicted for 2009?
are the youth just as engaged as the older folk in preparing for the tectonic catastrophe for 2012?
has anyone seen the compounds? are they underground?

I know for a fact that Bob Gross died within the last year. There was a Newsday obituary of Bob Gross. Bob's younger brother Glenn was my roomate at Stony Brook university from 1973 to 1975.

Kenny Biegs

Can you tell me when he died. I checked the Newsday obit notices and it does not come up. I checked under Bob and Robert gross. Thanks