beyondeverthingnow:

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In response to Fallen49r- why are we so afraid to speak about our fears and doubts about what our loved ones are into? Is it because we are afraid of losing them even though we have already lost them to "the family"? I think that has been the hardest part- to try to hang on and pretend that I have a "normal" family when it is everything but normal. Also, I thought that things were fizzing out also but lately it seems like they are cranking it up a bit- reverting to more of the Jewish things and more "teachings" by Gary. What do you think about Gary? He seems like an average nice looking successful business man with a pretty wife and a cute kid. Do you think he truly believes in himself or do you think he's running a scam?

He believes and I've never seen him lie, even when he really didn't like the question.

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pequagirl
Why are we so afraid to speak about our fears and doubts about what our loved ones are into? Is it because we are afraid of losing them even though we have already lost them to "the family"? I think that has been the hardest part- to try to hang on and pretend that I have a "normal" family when it is everything but normal.

My situation is that in part, but for me it goes deeper. When it comes to those who have dismissed me and verbally cast me out, I can clearly see that my relationship with them was always superficial/conditional; in other words, those are the easy, empty "losses". The more trying cases come with those who actually accept and contemplate what you have to say, thinking "what if this person is right?". This happens with relationships that are built on more than the cult-induced brotherhood, namely parents, spouses, best friends, etc. These sort of people seem to be the only ones, understandably, who will hear you out and consider your friendship/love just as significant as their involvement with the group. You owe these people your respect by realizing that your words can be devastating to how they see their lives. This has been the single most difficult experience I have faced in my life.

There are various paths you can take, each with a different degree of selfishness:

If you calmly explain your case and debunk the family's beliefs line by line, you can really hurt people; you can make people question what they've been doing with their lives, etc. Sure, we were there too once, but we figured out that Santa wasn't real all on our own, we weren't told by some 6th grader who pushed us in the dirt... And once again, it's not all bad. The other thing to do, (what most of those who have left have done) is to simply fade away. Some are villianized, but others are just forgotten. They don't make too much noise, which is either a sign of apathy or respect. The last thing to do, something many people find themselves doing by default, is to just go through the motions. People don't want to lose their friends, their family, etc so they just bite the bullet and pretend. It's an excruciating experience if you live a life of principle, but it may be the most respectful path; one you feel you owe you parents, etc.

Overall, the paradox is this: We cannot be heard, understood and accepted without hurting the ones we love. Conversely, we cannot keep those we love happy and proud without living a lie.

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pequagirl
What do you think about Gary? He seems like an average nice looking successful business man with a pretty wife and a cute kid. Do you think he truly believes in himself or do you think he's running a scam?

I have no idea what Gary really thinks about it all. I'd like to think that in the wake of Hickman, he's trying to push things in a more positive direction, trying to salvage the better aspects of the group. I mean, they're vegetarians, they volunteer in their communities, they try to live by noble principles, (unconditional love, peace, etc), but the stain will fade; this group emerged from talk of Armageddon that awed young parents and scarred their respective children for life. What upsets me most is how this all gained momentum. Many "teachers" over the history of the group have spouted blatantly false information about the nature of reality, with total disregard for reason and established fact; things like fish-people, hidden planets and terrestrial aliens, "energies", etc. It's these things that make "tready lightly" on other's beliefs so difficult, especially when the older generation hides behind these myths and uses them to view the world in such a self-righteous, and frankly unacceptable, manner.

Wow! To quote Fallen49r: We cannot be heard, understood and accepted without hurting the ones we love. Conversely, we cannot keep those we love happy and proud without living a lie.

That is sooooooooooo true. Because I was raised not to question (even things back in the Lutheran day like the Trinity) I have NEVER expressed my feelings about what my loved ones are into. I have only either distrusted my own thoughts, beliefs and feelings or stuffed my fears and doubts. At this point, 30 or 40 years into it, it is probably pointless. But there is so much I would love to say. I guess that might be why I needed to join this discussion. I have felt adrift and alone for a long time. How do you explain that most of the people in your life have vanished into Maine following a cult leader? I guess it's not mine to explain or protect.

I just noticed how many times this particular link has been viewed; way more than other. I suppose there are a lot of us out there who have been affected by Jack Hickman and crew! And, what about Jack? Who was he is he wasn't who he said he was? and how did he convince 2 other Lutheran pastors to forsake their faith?

pequagirl,

Hickman was the classic cult leader archetype - he was charismatic, and I liken his teachings to a phrase Hitler once used... “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

His teachings were so outrageous and simply astonishing works of science-fiction blended with twisted religious philosophy... his words were eloquent yet confusing and contradictory. He could spin any act, no matter how wrong or immoral to appear righteous. He used classic intimidation techniques that all cult leaders of the past have used and was very good at thought manipulation. You must understand that most of the people who joined his original ministry were "seekers" They were looking for something - they needed something. Hickman provided that. Not only did he give them some kind of direction... he made them all feel above the rest of the world, better than them, more important, that they and only they had a direct hotline to god and that it was their destiny to save humanity.

For someone who is lost, possibly on drugs, in an abusive household, socially awkward and looking for friends, persons with no family, this could be quite appealing.

Got to get back to work...

I will get more into this soon.

I have been gathering more info lately. I do think Gary lied. I think he lied because he was embarassed.

I think he really believes still. I don't know what those beliefs are anymore. After talking with him a couple of weeks ago, I think he is struggling with his beliefs and what to do with them.

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My Good Name
I have been gathering more info lately. I do think Gary lied. I think he lied because he was embarassed.

I think he really believes still. I don't know what those beliefs are anymore. After talking with him a couple of weeks ago, I think he is struggling with his beliefs and what to do with them.

I don't know whether or not Gary lied or if he struggles in his beliefs of all that Jack Hickman taught, but I do know that he has a deep and strong faith in God and strives to grow in his relationship with God every single day. He definitely is not faking his pursuit of a strong spiritual life. I know that when he was asked a very hard question about homsexuaity in the past, he answered truthfully. Gary is a victim. He has great allegiance and love for his abuser and this is his struggle.

So, where does this leave Gary and group? Perhaps there is no harm in following a sincere person (Gary) who seeks a closer relationship with God. what makes him different from Jack? Did all of the teaching come from Jack? That is the way I saw it- one day he was a Lutheran pastor and then he morphed into a Rabbi with secret teachings. Was his real agenda homosexual exploits in God's name or was he really a deeply spiritual person?