Philly, funny you mentioned her cuz i was just thinking about her bob and the other person that posted. no i haven't heard from her again. i wonder too how she is.

i just reordered Steve's book on mind control. i lent it out to a friend and have never received it back. i can't wait to get it!!!! is anyone else reading anything?

frogla:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Quite a few good articles about brainwashing within this subsection.

Here are the two best articles:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

The following chart makes disntinctions between various forms of persuasion.

See [www.culteducation.com]

And this article examines manipulative people and the techniques they often use to confuse and control people.

See [www.culteducation.com]

I hope this is helpful.

LLG
Please never feel alone in your recovery. You know you can ALWAYS talk to me and I think you know who I am. If ever you need to just get together and talk out any of your fears, dreams or feelings just email or call me. I am there for you forever. You are always in my thoughts and I am definitely not "bored" of your issues. I do want to let you know that I am proud and touched deeply by the magnificent steps you have already made in your recovery and with the support of others from this thread and perhaps other threads that have surfaced, you will continue to succeed.

rrmoderator thank you for those links!

LLG here is the list of 8 point model. can you put in each one an example of what they did or letters?

list of Robert Jay Lifton's 8 Point Model of Thought Reform:

1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the
group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.

3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or
personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract
and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.

Hi everyone,
Sorry this took so long but I had a lot to put in here and so just going through the memory banks and making sure things are as accurate, as well as anonymous (though not sure I was all that successful) as possible took a while. This is a long post, but a pretty in depth look at “life on the inside”. I hope this will shed some light on what it is like and why your “trumpeters” think and act the way they do. My heart truly goes out to them, Trent is a bright, wonderful person and Philly your husband (I’m pretty sure I know who he is) is very sensitive and has such a tender heart for God, there are so many amazing people in this group who are being hurt by this, even though right now they just don’t know it.


list of Robert Jay Lifton's 8 Point Model of Thought Reform:

1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

We went through an entire Sabbath study on “Being Separate” and many times were told we need to “Come out” of the church and “Be separate” from the wicked and unbelievers (which is anyone who did not believe in the Bible and the Letters). ( [www.google.com]) I had reservations about separating completely from my family and so during the beginning of one of the Sabbath studies (the Skype call had been opened early) I asked Timothy about it. He told me “didn’t you hear the study before on it?” (a guilt and shame thing) and then told me he believes God does want us to be completely separate from our families (meaning if they weren’t “believers” as defined above). After that I sent an email to my whole family (including Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, etc.) to tell them if they couldn’t accept the letters I couldn’t be around them but told them if they ever wanted to know more about Jesus I would come running to speak with them. I missed family reunions, birthdays and weddings in the interest of “being separate from the things of this world”.
We were also told through letters ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] are a couple of examples) and conversations that we should “Let go” of worldly things (both physical and emotional) and not read anything which wasn’t the Lord’s word in the Bible or the letters, or watch anything “worldly” including news and even the weather channel.
We were also told through the letters that we needed to “Silence the scoffers”, scoffers being anyone who criticized Timothy or the letters, by separating from them physically or blocking them (if it was on facebook or something they would be blocked so they could no longer contribute to the conversation threads on the person’s facebook page). The reason we were told is so the scoffer does not cause more harm to himself by persecuting God’s servant and mocking God. ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] )

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group. (this is also sometimes called “Planned Spontaneity”)

Of course all of the letters fall into this category, the main basis of this group is that Timothy is a “prophet of God in this modern day” and so if you believe the letters are from God than every single time we got one we were on a special kind of “high” feeling as though we were “special chosen and privileged” children of God to have him speak directly to us (even if it was addressed to another member in the group or to society at large it was always “and for those who have ears to hear”). I also received 2 letters directly to me from the Lord which heightened the sense of the Lord speaking into my life through his prophet. They both came after intense “praying and seeking” the Lord, but without realizing it I also kind of was a part of orchestrating the outcome. Both times I involved leaders from the group in my struggles and questions prior to receiving the letters. The first time was a question I had which I sent to Trent and Timothy to see if they could seek understanding from the Lord as well, I never received a direct answer from either of them but during one of the studies during the week I “divinely” got my response in a letter addressed to me “live” in the study even though I hadn’t asked the question directly during the study. The letter started off with a “correcting” tone as though the Lord was telling me I should have known the answer already out of the Truth which is how we are to follow the Lord (sorry if that doesn’t make sense trying to at least attempt at being anonymous here). Then it went into encouraging me to be forthright with the Truth at all times and in all seasons and otherwise if I didn’t I was being a horrible person who didn’t have love in me but hate. Of course the overall tone of the letter was in a Fatherly correcting but loving tone so it made me want to please Him all the more and try harder. There was also a part in the letter which was later adopted as part of our “loaded language” and became a huge part of my own “thought stopping process” as will be discussed below. Later the letter was added to the volumes but some of it was changed radically from the original and no longer was even addressed to me nor was the “answer to my question” included, and we were told that when Timothy “reads it over with the Lord” sometimes He has him change some of it in order to more accurately portray what He was telling him. The second was after a very difficult time I had at home, as I was trying to “follow” the letters and try harder, I was doing something that was only “commanded” of the watchmen (leaders) of the group so I could try and be “extra faithful”. Doing this caused tension in my life, a BIG amount of tension and though I felt justified in my response to the tension I felt extremely depressed. Taking this back a few steps, I had a very clear dream of the kind I’ve never had before prior to joining the group when I first began to obey what the letters were revealing to me. This of course confirmed my belief in the letters early on, but it also gave me a mystery which I believed came from God. After making a mistake early on in my time with the group (essentially hiding what I was doing) I was completely repentant and emailed Trent to say I was sorry (even though he likely had no idea in the first place). In that email I mentioned the dream, knowing that others had had dreams interpreted by the Lord through the letters Timothy wrote, because I wanted to know if there was something I could learn from the dream which would help me grow (I was panicked knowing the time was close and I had so far to go before I was likely to be deemed “worthy” of rapture). Trent sent the email off to Timothy and Jayse (another prophet in the group) with the disclaimer to me that it would be interpreted “Lord willing”. Less than 24 hours later I received a response from Trent that the Lord had given Jayse a message for me and he had copied part of a conversation between him and Jayse in the body of the email. Jayse said in the email body that the Lord told me that the dream wasn’t the focus but then went into how much He loved me. That tidbit made me so excited I could barely keep my feet on the ground. Trent told me that it still needed to be “scribed” which he said meant that Timothy would pray over it and Amy would spell check and format it. It was at least a month and I hadn’t heard of my letter, but seeing it as a test in patience I tried to wait and not say anything. I once emailed about it but Timothy told me they had 60 letters they had to go through and so mine was “on the list” and that the Lord had prioritized the list to make it easier on Timothy but I would be receiving it soon enough so I left it alone. Finally when the big tension I spoke about above happened and I was so depressed I couldn’t wait any longer, I needed to hear about the Lord’s love for me as Jayse mentioned was in the letter. I emailed Timothy and Amy to see if I could just read the “unedited” version I didn’t care about spelling mistakes and stuff I just needed to hear the Lord’s words to me, I explained the tension I had gone through and was going through to show why it was so important to me. Amy responded and said that Tim prayed and that the Lord said that Tim could work on my letter next. I was so overwhelmed that the Lord would put my letter over what I thought would have to have been more important letters and kind of felt bad that I had said anything. Amy told me that I couldn’t read the un-scribed version because Jayse was a “prophet in training” kind of thing and so Timothy needed to read it over with the Lord to make sure it was accurate (paraphrased of course not her exact words). Late on the night before the Sabbath study I got the letter sent to me and then we also read it during the Sabbath study. That letter was a completely different tone than the first letter, it encouraged me and made me feel loved by God as a special daughter, and even eluded that he I would be one of those raptured as his bride and told me to “take this dress and wear it well” which meant that I needed to be holy as a “worthy bride of Christ”. The letter didn’t interpret the dream but said that later he would interpret my dream through his servant so I would know he had never abandoned me.


3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or
personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

There was an emphasis on purity in this group, as mentioned earlier we were to “rid ourselves of the world” in us by refraining from “worldly” television and books, from “worldly” people which were pretty much everyone except the group (even those who believed the Bible but not the letters or beliefs of the group were in a sense “worldly” because they were seen as similar to the Pharisees because they couldn’t see “what the Lord is doing” in our generation and were proud and clinging to the “deceit” of the church), and were not to cling to “worldly” goods (which was why some were departed because they didn’t give to others).
I remember being pretty much terrified to watch almost anything on TV with my husband and would bury myself in my computer to block out the TV from my vision or hearing (I would listen to MP3s of the letters with my earphones). I couldn’t even watch Christian TV because I saw that as deception, though for some reason they did endorse Spongebob as safe but I haven’t really been able to figure out why that is. I also remember a time when after reading one of the letters I went out to our deck (early in the morning) and fell to my knees praying and crying for the Lord to “remove the world from me” that I didn’t want anything to do with the world, only Him, I felt so ashamed of myself that I was sobbing uncontrollably out there on my knees on my deck. I prayed that the Lord would “purge the dross” in me (meaning to get rid of any impurities) and make me worthy of Him.



4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

The group was very open with each other, we were like family, closer than family and so we shared a lot during the studies and in prayer. Also in Skype conversations in the “off hours” the Skype windows were open 24hrs a day for anyone to come on and talk with whomever else was online (I suspect there were always leaders watching because they always seemed to show up) and the conversations were always there for anyone to view later. We worshiped “YahuShua” (which we were told was the Lord’s real name) with a passion I had not seen anywhere else. Many times I came to the group (we called each other family as well, brothers, sisters and friends) with problems I was having at home and told them how I struggled and what I was feeling inside. Once I told them that I felt like I was being unloving when I told my husband I needed to tell my kids that there was no Santa, Easter bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. and he was crying asking me not to destroy their fantasies and ruin the happiness and his favorite season (Christmas), that they were his kids too. Others in the group shared their own struggles with going through the “culture change” around Christmas and the like as well.
Later on in my time there, Trent announced that he had come across these “counseling techniques” to discover your “true self” and wanted to practice so he was asking for volunteers to pair up for him to practice counseling them. I signed up enthusiastically, but since I was still fairly new compared to many of them I hadn’t really found any particularly close friends in the group (though I emailed Trent a lot because he brought me into the group and I felt close to him because of that) I asked Trent if he knew of anyone who didn’t have a partner but then found someone on my own and off we went. The counseling took place over Skype and there were 2 sessions. The ultimate result of the “counseling” was to categorize yourself into your Primary and Secondary “self” categories of “Thinker”, “Feeler”, or “Doer” and we were told that was our “true self” which we were given by God. Then we went through and discussed our “worldly self” which we learned through events in our lives which shaped us, and thirdly how we felt and thought about God and his role in our lives in difficult times. In the part of the counseling about “worldly self” we were asked to tell him about some of the most painful memories we have and how we dealt with pain and hurt in our lives. In the end we found out how we acted, interacted and thought about things and why. The thing is, now so did Trent and he recorded the sessions which (and I’ll admit I am assuming here) probably were shared with Timothy as well. Now, I have to be honest, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I’m a pretty open book so the counseling sessions probably showed ME more about me than anyone else because the things we found out were probably pretty obvious to anyone else I imagine. Part of what I found out was that I have trouble with feeling accepted by others and often feel as though I am a burden on people so after that Trent continually re-affirmed me by calling me Friend and saying that he loved me (in a brotherly way of course). I felt closer to him after that and felt he really truly cared about me as his sister and I shared even more with him as he taught me and helped me through my struggles and I felt privileged to be under his tutelage.

5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

The following is a conversation in Skype which took place in one of our studies in August, I removed the names to protect the privacy of those involved (except Timothy because I think it’s important to see what he said). It shows a good “listing” of the doctrines this group holds too, and the requirement to be in complete agreement with them. In fact, the title of the subject in the email when the study was sent out to the group included the words “This may be the last study you ever partake of” meaning if you didn’t comply with these that you might as well pack your bags and never come back. Shortly after this study we started getting “ultimatums” from the Lord that if you didn’t comply with particular doctrines/beliefs you would be “departed from the Lord’s table”. Also, there were a couple of beliefs which we were specifically told if we did not believe them that we would be left behind for the tribulation in order to be “corrected”. The thing that is interesting, is that I read an article written by Trent some time ago, about how this group is not a cult and the premise of the article was that cults tell you what to think and do, and this cult doesn’t, well… I’m not so sure about that.


Leader 1: 1) That we ought to keep all 10 commandments: Even the 2nd (No graven images) and 4th (Remembering the Sabbath (7th Day - Saturday)), and keeping God's Holy Days, walking as Christ walked.

The Lord Jesus Himself said:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20

Paul said:

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:3-4

And:

"Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth." - 1 Corinthians 5:8

Paul speaking to gentiles at the church in Corinth, directed them to keep the feast of unleavened bread, as commanded by God.

John wrote:

"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus." - Revelation 14:12

And:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." - 1 John 3:4

**Please don't think that I am saying that we are justified by keeping God's commandments. It is only by authentic faith in the true Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice and resurrection from the dead that we are saved, and this leading to works and obedience... For any other kind of faith is dead, not leading to works and obedience.
Leader 2: does anyone still have a problem with this truth?
Leader 2: we should all say amen to it if we agree
Leader 2: ok?
Me: Amen!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen to the 10 commandments
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: Amen
Flock member: Amen Lord
Leader 1: 2) That the damned are not granted eternal life/consciousness to abide in torment. The Lake of Fire is the means by which both resurrected body and soul will be destroyed, consumed, devoured, perish, etc... Modern translations of the Scriptures in English have lead to much confusion due to Sheol (OT), and Gehenna and Hades (NT), all being translated "hell", a word foreign to both Hebrew and Greek.

This is all throughout the Scriptures, and VERY FEW of the modern churches of men preach this truth. Rather, they have adopted heathen philosophies of the immortal souls of mankind, apart from Christ. This doctrine is anti-christ and blasphemy on the highest order. Making God a tormentor of His creation, and making Jesus Christ a liar.

**Please let me know if you would like me to send you Bible studies on this topic that the Spirit of God has lead me in making.
Leader 2: do we all 100% agree?
Flock member: (y)
Me: 100%! Amen!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen!
Flock member: Yes, Amen, I do agree
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: completely amen
Flock member: Tripple Amen
Flock member: Yes, amen
Leader 2: who has a bit of a prob with that?
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: there was a time when I would have had a problem....not now
Leader 2: good
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: 1. John 4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Leader 1: 3) That ANYTHING we give more time to than the Lord, whether in activity or thought, is an idol. We are to have the Lord Jesus/YahuShua as the Foundation, Corner-stone, and Centerpiece of our lives.

"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." - 1 John 2:15

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." - James 4:4

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness." - 1 John 5:19

“I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" - Luke 12:49
Me: Amen, Yes God is Love
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen, it is indeed the truth
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Leader 1: PS: I would love it if we could find Letter excerpts for these as well... Maybe not right now
Leader 2: any disagreement?
Jason: I know there is a plethra of them
Flock member: none
Flock member: Nope, Amen
Me: not at all
Leader 2: ok we are going to be unanimous on all these or slow down to help anyone that has a problem with them
Flock member: amen

Leader 1: Gimmie the go ahead when were ready for next posting
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: k
Leader 2: o k
Leader 2: ready
Flock member: Genesis 5:24: And Enoch >>> walked with God:<<< and he was not; for God took him.


Leader 1: ok
Leader 1: 4) That those whom have fallen asleep/died in Christ are not currently conscious, but await the Lords resurrection at the Last Day (Beginning of the Day of The LORD). The rest of the dead are not again conscious until after the 1,000 years. They will then be judged according to works.

"There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." - Acts 24:15

"My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who havedone good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." - John 5:28-29

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished." - Revelation 20:5

"I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." - Revelation 20:12
Leader 2: ok with this one everyone? That the dead do not haunt consciously ... but sleep in the grave until the first resurrection (or later if unto judgement)???
Flock member: yes, amen and thank you Lord
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Yes I agree with this wholeheartedly....
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: agree
Flock member: (nod)
Flock member: Leader 2: but sleep in the grave until the first resurrection (or later if unto judgement)???

<<< why do you have a ???? after this statement.
Flock member: AMEn
Flock member: Amen

Those in Christ sleep until the first resurrection, those not in Christ will sleep until the secound resurrection, which is after the millenum.
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: Also, that those who have died are not alive in heaven right now.
Leader 2: (to the flock member’s question above) it was a question whether everyone agreed ... therefore the question mark at the end
Flock member: now I understand, and yes, I agree
Leader 2: right
Leader 2: no hauntings
Leader 2: no playing in the Father's house until the resurrection, right?
Me: what about babies who were killed in the womb Leader 1? I think I read in a letter they go straight to God.. is that meaning heaven?
Flock member: amen , agreed
Leader 1: Yes (to my question)
Flock member: [18:17:33] Me: what about babies who were killed in the womb Leader 1? I think I read in a letter they go straight to God.. is that meaning heaven?

<<< Yes.
Leader 1: and Also innocent children who died
Flock member: Right Leader 2
Me: ok, thanks :)
Leader 1: (State of the innocent)

“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.” – Luke 18:16

“And those from the Kingdom, who lived upon the earth for such a short time and remain without blemish, return to Him from whom they came. They need not sleep in death, for the penalty of sin is death. I have found no sin in them.” (Letters from God and His Christ, Volume 1 – “To Whom Does the Kingdom of Heaven Belong?”)
Leader 2: amen
Leader 1: Ok, next?
Me: amen
Leader 2: next
Flock member: just a question
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Mat 27:52: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Flock member: What about these graves in Matthew 27? (KJV)
Leader 1: aha, a great mystery
Leader 2: they are back in their graves
Leader 2: the Lord revealed that to us
Flock member: as is Lazarus
Flock member: ..wasn't it simply a "preview" of things to come..?
Leader 2: they were not "resurrected" ... rather, like Lazarus, they were "resusitated"
Me: neat
Flock member: Ah ok I wondered about that.
Leader 1: And a little boy was also resusitated in the Old Testament by God through Elijah or Elisha
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: next:
Leader 1: 5) That there will be a rapture of the bride before God's wrath is poured out on the earth and the inhabitants thereof. However, very few will be gathered up... Only those whom Christ sees of Himself in... Those who KNOW Him and obey Him, whom have truly made Him their Lord/Master and Savior. *Many churches teach this... However, not all who goto a church will be gathered up... Only those whom Christ truly see's of Himself in.

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall >ALL< be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” – 1 Corinthians 15:51

“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to >>escape ALL<< these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” – Luke 21:36

“If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” – Revelation 3:3

“Behold, I come as a THIEF. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” – Revelation 16:15

Leader 2: This is called the "pre-trib rapture" by men ... God calls it "the gathering uP" or "the first harvest" ... do we all agree?
Flock member: amen
Me: Sweet Amen.. looking forward to it :).. God willing
Flock member: Amen.
Flock member: (y) 100%
Flock member: yes , I do , amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: I AGREE!!! :) I hope to be counted among the ones to go in this!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: I see the SDA and Jehova witnesses churches fall after the gathering up, because they do not teach that.
Flock member: Whether I go at first or last, I do not care, just as long as I am somewhere in line
Leader 2: ok, but we are all going to agree or slow down to make sure we all do
Leader 1: Asepcts of God's Wrath are being manifested in the earth, as they have been throughout history... But the Day of Wrath, great tribulation will happen after the Rapture.
Flock member: We can slow down.....
Leader 2: (to the flock member who said they didn’t care if they were first or last), you should care ... because it breaks the Lord's heart to lock the door
Flock member: I do not want to boast and YES, I do care.
Leader 2: woe to them that do not care ... just saying
Flock member: Revelation 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that >>> were beheaded <<< for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Me: I know what you mean.. I feel the same, I know if I have to stay, its because God loves me.. and if i am gathered.. it is because God loves me :)
Flock member: I am willing to go when he chooses. I truly do not want to be left, with the door locked. He knows that.
Flock member: Most of those left will die during that time.
Leader 2: He doesn't want that either ... but He knows it is neccesary
Flock member: [11:23:15 AM] Leader 1: Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” – Revelation 16:15

<<< amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: [11:25:12 AM] Me: I know what you mean... I feel the same, I know if I have to stay, its because God loves me.. and if i am gathered.. it is because God loves me :)

<<< I want to zip out on the first flight, and I know it is his choosing, I am struggling not to struggle
Flock member: In USA they have build 15000 to 30000 guilotines.
Leader 2: His choice is made already, though
Me: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: I was just going to say that Leader 2.....
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: so we are waiting to see if our boarding pass gets us aboard
Leader 2: next one?
Me: :)
Leader 1: 6) It is impossible to worship the Father without worshiping the Son. The Son is worthy of praise, honor, and worship! The Father and the Son are one, though manifested in the earth as 2. (This is still a little bit of a brain teaser) :) HalleluYahuShua!

"All will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." - John 5:23

"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." - 1 John 2:23
Flock member: Amen!
Me: Yes, Amen Lord
Flock member: YahuShua HaMashiach is Yahuwah, God Almighty!
Amen
Leader 2: Yes
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen...!
Flock member: yes, amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Yahushua is YHWH
Leader 2: we can call them lots of things but "separate" is NOT one of them, amen?
Flock member: [11:28:33 AM] Flock member: : YahuShua HaMashiach is Yahuwah, God Almighty!

<<<
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Leader 2: next ... if everyone agrees.
Flock member: 1 God - 2 "people", 1 spirit, we worship not the spirit, we worship through the spirit
Flock member: 1 God, 2 "persons", 3 aspects.
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: 7) We are to be separate from the traditions of men including Christmas, Easter, and Halloween. These holidays are deeply rooted in paganism and stem from traditions and celebrations of false gods since before Christ. However, God has given us 7 Holy Days/Festivals/Feasts we are to remember which have awesome spiritual fulfillment in the Lord Jesus Christ. Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First-Fruits have been fulfilled in Him, Pentecost still is, and the other 3 are yet to be fulfilled. (If you would like more info on this I would be glad to give you some stuff.)

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, (winter solstice)
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple." - Jeremiah 10:2-4

"Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods" - Deuteronomy 12:30-31

"He said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"" - Mark 7:9
Flock member: Amen - He knew before we were to know - evidenced by Jeremiah
Me: Amen! (and thanks for sharing this Leader 1 I'd never seen that in Jeremiah before :))
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen, I agree with all the above
Flock member: "New Year" / 31st of December also
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: (y)
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: (I was pulled away by work but I agree on all 7 points so far).... Amen to all of them
Leader 1: They key in the Deut verse:
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: " You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"
Leader 2: Yes
Leader 2: I want to be clear
Leader 2: I love you but this is not the study for you if you are going to celebrate pagan holidays and forsake Gods holidays
Leader 2: Understand?
Leader 2: the internet is big
Flock member: totally,amen
Flock member: Amen!
Leader 2: go find people like you if you are still doing the holidays of men and not God's
Flock member: Throw all abominations away from you.
Me: completely! Amen
Leader 2: I'm serious
Flock member: Yes, I understand, and I agree with the Lord's Words about not celebrating pagan holidays and not forsaking God's holy days
Flock member: Yes Amen
Flock member: it was decided to drop all of those pagan rituals before I even found the letters so yes 100 % sure
Leader 2: ok then
Leader 2: next?
Flock member: i would love to take part in a holyday feast but i dont know much about them
Leader 1: There's some Letters about it Jonathan, and much to learn on-line with the Lord's Spirit helping you, if you are truly hungry for it.

Leader 2: (to the flock member who said they want to take part in holy days) the next one is coming up in September
Leader 2: don't make your goal unrealistic
Leader 2: but attempt full participation
Leader 2: and God will honor your attempts
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: 8) The Holy Spirit is not a person. Nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit worshiped. Rather, the Spirit is that aspect of God that is the means by which the Lord interacts with us. We do not pray to the Spirit, but through the Spirit. One God, Two Persons, Three Aspects...

4/19/05 - From God the Father - A Letter Given to Timothy, For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Where has the Lord God said in His Book, written by His spirit through men, "Give praise and worship unto the Holy Spirit"? The Spirit of God is called holy because I am holy, and all I do and purpose is holy and true. Therefore, give praise and worship to your God and His only Begotten. Only give thanks, not worship, for that part and aspect of My being given unto men, who are saved through grace. They receive My spirit because of their belief and proclamation that Jesus is Lord. Give heed and obey the words of the Spirit, for they are My Word given to men to live by and restore them to righteousness and life. Indeed Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord...one God, three aspects...two beings, the Father and the Son. For even the Son can put His Spirit upon you, and cause it to dwell within you, for as the Father is, so too is the Son. All the power of God moving upon the earth is called My Holy Spirit. It is My will made manifest. Therefore, it is not separate. Rather, it is a manifestation of My presence in men and My will made manifest in the world. How can one pray to that which he prays through? Shall one pray only to the hand of God? Pray directly to your God, in the Son's name, Christ Jesus, and through the Spirit will I hear you, and you, Me. For all My servants in Heaven and upon the earth move, speak, hear and know their God through His Spirit. It is My body in which all live and have life. Know the Spirit...accept My love. The Spirit is a gift given by the Father, from the Father, for your sake. Call it not a person...call it a blessing.
Blessed are those, who have the Spirit of God, for God dwells in them. Amen.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Agreed, Amen
Flock member: [18:37:57] Leader 1: One God, Two Persons, Three Aspects...

<<< Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: [18:37:57] Leader 1: Call it not a person...call it a blessing.

<<<
Leader 1: Anyone noticed in the most recent Letters the Lord has been more forthcoming than in pervious Letters of His Oneness?
Flock member: ..so beautiful,...Amen.
Leader 2: yes
Leader 1: "I AM He, and He Is Me", etc...
Leader 1: Awesome
Flock member: yes, He also refers to Himself as the Father and the Savior
Me: yes, thats awesome.. Amen
Leader 2: OK ... do we worship the Holy Spirit?
Me: no
Flock member: No
Flock member: No we don't
Flock member: no
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: no
Leader 2: But we DO worship God ... by His two names which are ______ and _________
Flock member: Yahuwah , YahuShua
Flock member: Yahuwah and YahuShua
Flock member: The Son or the Father through the Son.
Me: The Father and the Son, Jesus, YahuShua
Flock member: YahuShua and Yahuwah
Flock member: Yahuwah & YahuShua
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: ready for next?
Me: (y)
Flock member: Ready
Leader 1: k
Leader 1: 9) Water Baptism is NOT required for the forgiveness of sins, and salvation. Only the Blood of the Lamb can forgive sins... Baptism, by water, was given to men as a solidification of one's commitment to God, in Christ's name, and fellowship with one to the other to build Christ's church and make it of one body.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]’s_Right_Hand...Hear_the_Word_of_the_Lord
Flock member: Aaaaamen
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Leader 1: (to one of the flock members), was this a doctrine the Lord had to de-teach you?
Flock member: Else would water baptisem be equal for salvation with the sacrifica of Jesus.
Flock member: Amen, by all means...
Leader 2: k
Flock member: I think yes.
Leader 1: Unfortunately, many of the churches whom are closer to the truth on the resurrections, eternal judgement, etc... teach that all must be baptized in water, by men, in order to be saved... :(
Leader 1: I'm happy He did that for you, many stumble over this
Flock member: ...remember the thief on the cross...
Flock member: Well I got baptised into water, because I felt it necessary.
Flock member: [18:44:48] Flock member: ...remember the thief on the cross...

<<< Yes absolutly.
Flock member: amen
Me: We do it out of obedience to the Lord.. but not because it will save us
Flock member: One of my church members wept when I got baptised.
Leader 2: (y)
Flock member: what scripture was fulfilled by the Lord's baptism by John?
Leader 1: It can be a beautiful thing, and was and probably is, accompanied by the infilling of the Spirit, not because of the ritual, but because of the condition of the heart of the one being baptized
Me: Amen Lord
Leader 2: yes
Flock member: His baptism fulfilled all righteousness
Leader 2: lets move on ... we have more stuff on the list

Flock member: I think of those who never had the chance to become baptised, they would have no salvation if it were true. Prisoners for example.
Me: That wouldn't be very loving of our Lord, now would it?... and He IS Love
Leader 1: ok
Leader 1: 10) God does still send prophets, though there are very few who are authentic. As in the days of old, and according to the Lord Jesus teachings, the true prophets of God are despised and rejected by common religious authority. Likewise, both Christ and the prophets of old were hated of men, especially by those of high position within the religious establishment. There are many Scriptures that testify to the reality that there were true prophets after the Lord's ascension, and that there will be in the last days.

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, >>prophets<<; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers…” – Ephesians 4:11

“If any man think himself to be >>a prophet<<, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” – 1 Corinthians 14:37

“Behold, >>I send unto you prophets<<, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.” – Matthew 23:34

“It shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and >>your sons and your daughters shall prophesy<<, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions…” – Joel 2:28
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Leader 2: can anyone have a true claim to being a prophet and teach eternal torment?
Flock member: i agree, Amen
Flock member: Amen

Leader 2: if not why not?
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: no
Flock member: that is not from the Lord , eternal torment
Me: no not at all... because it is TOTALLY against God's word
Flock member: Ac:2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Ac:2:17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Ac:2:18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and >>> they shall prophesy:<<<
Flock member: No, you can't teach eternal torment....and be a prophet
Flock member: the action word you are using is, "true", so no - they can not be a true prophet and teach eternal torment
Flock member: Amos 3:7: Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Leader 2: Lets keep that in mind for the commandments, and for holidays and all the other things ... no true prophet could be contrary to God's truth ... ignorant .. .perhaps ... but contrary ... NO.
Flock member: amen
Flock member: ..cannot POSSIBLY exist with The Lord's Perfect love...
Me: amen
Flock member: Leader 2, this throws out 98.5 of "prophets"
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen .. yes it does
Leader 2: remember that at the beginning Timothy was ignorant of many things but the prophecy stands because it was not contrary to revealed Truth.
Flock member: Is the return of YahuSHua not important enough to be proclaimed by prophets?
I think IT IS.
Leader 2: so what is written stays written and what the Lord has spoken ... stands!
Flock member: the prophet may be ignorant but not the message delivered by the prophet
Flock member: The Lord has grown Timothy from a twig to a mighty Oak!
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: 11) Babies are NOT sinners. Sin is the transgression of the law, and/or transgression of the conscience which is God given. We are not born sinners. However, being brought up in a world of sin, living in flesh, all eventually sin and fall short of the glory of God, save those innocent children and babies whom pass-on, living few years in the earth. These need not sleep in death. Neither do they need to be resurrected. They go to be with the Lord immediately.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: Amen, born into sin and not of sin
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen (thats the one! :))
Leader 2: this is contrary to mans' doctrine called "original sin" ... which is a falsehood
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen....
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: we all agree then?
Flock member: babies are full of Jesus (sun) there spotless and they shine bright
Flock member: What the LORD says stands.
Flock member: yes
Flock member: I agree....I had a bit of a hard time "grasping" this....but I think the Lord has helped open my heart and eyes to see it
Me: yes.. and that is why they Christen babies. I totally agree, there is no "Original sin"
Flock member: Yes indeed
Flock member: Yes I do.
Leader 2: k
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: That's it
Leader 2: alright
Leader 2: what we could add is this
Leader 2: *12) Read and share God's word ...
Leader 2: amen?
Flock member: Amen ,
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Yes Amen!!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: Churches do that with the Bible, but obviously not with the Letters
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: *13) vacate man's churches (services conducted in buildings that are made by man's hands ... for the establishment of another of man's chruches)
Flock member: Bible + Letters = Gods word spoken to all of us.
Me: Although Leader 1.. you will find in Churches it isn't really focused on. It is actually dampened in case you "offend" someone
Flock member: Leader 2, that should definately be on the list

Me: Yes.. Amen to vacate churches of men
Flock member: Yes
Leader 2: so we all went quiet on 13?
Leader 1: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets." - Matt 23:29-31
Me: nope.. I am in full agreeance on #13
Flock member: Nay, continuing to Trumpet, and read
Flock member: My mother has accepted the Letters :)
Flock member: I don't attend any church of men and have no desire to
Flock member: Vacate man's churches...Amen
Flock member: Leader 2, I was thinking back when he had us do all the faxing.....It is only "in line" with that action that he now calls us all to abandon all church gatherings.
Leader 1: 13) One must repent of their sins and be sanctified through the working of the spirit to inherit the Kingdom of heaven
Me: PTL(means Praise the Lord) Flock member who’s mother now accepts the Letters
Flock member: (to flock member who’s mother now accepts the Letters), that is AWESOME - ALL PRAISE AND GLORY TO HIM
Leader 2: Leader 1, 13 is taken
Flock member: I gave her some Letters and she said the truth is written in them.
Flock member: do not go to any church built by human hands, i fellowship with fellow believers in the Letters and the Word of God
Flock member: to go along with #13

Thus declares The Lord: All those, who depart the churches of men, shall come and sit at My table. And those, who remain unmoving, holding fast to their laurels because of their pride, shall receive the recompense of their error... Their fate shall be even as the house, in which they have placed all their trust... For I am The Lord alone, and I will not share My glory, nor will any corrupt house stand, though My name be written there.
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: I agree with thirteen Leader 2, for sure!!
Leader 2: WHEN did God tell us to vacate the churches of men? It was NOT last week
Me: no.. a long time ago
Flock member: He never told us to go
Me: before I started attending this study and reading the letters
Flock member: long long ago, in the beginning of the Letters
Flock member: No, I was referring to the activity that he had us do - what 10 months ago?
Flock member: immediatly
Leader 1: Oh... 14 then
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: What the LORD says stands.
Leader 2: In 2007 (I remember it like it was yesterday) the Lord told the churches to sell all their belongings and tear down their walls ... which church built by human hands was exempt?
Flock member: No church is exempt
Flock member: He said He was the church, not a building
Flock member: I think no chruch
Flock member: He is the church,
Leader 2: right ... none were exempt

Leader 2: how many churches rebelled ?
Flock member: I have a question...
Flock member: All?
Me: All churches of men rebelled
Flock member: all I think....
Flock member: All
Leader 2: what if then never heard?
Flock member: the churches of men
Me: They are still walking contrary to God and His truth

Leader 2: I'll speak plainly ... hearing or not is irrelevant ... if they harkened to the Lord they are now in rebellion ... and if they harkened not .. they are in rebellion for not listening ... all are in rebellion ... PERIOD
Flock member: amen
Me: amen
Leader 2: unless they sold everything ... gave it to the poor and tore down their building
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: none are in rebellion - they still harken to their own doctrine - they may have heard, and they are not in agreement with what the Lord said, so they are keeping their doctrine. They are not rebelling against the Lies of their false doctrine (of men)

Leader 2: did you mean all are in rebellion?
Flock member: All are in rebellion
Flock member: romans 3: 10As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands,

no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.”
Flock member: All are in rebellion,just a slow typer,
Flock member: Amen Jayse, me for sure
Leader 1: There is a great deception that repentance from ALL dead works is not required by the Lord...
Leader 1: This needs to be added as well
Leader 1: The Lord requires us to repent of ALL dead works... from lust of the flesh/wandering of the eyes, to smoking cigarettes (just a side note here, in our counseling meeting the other person in the session spoke about her difficulty with giving up smoking… but not with this Leader)
Flock member: yes
Me: Amen.. with the Lord's help
Leader 2: I'll speak plainly again. If you fancy going to man's churches ... the internet is a big place and you need to find some other place therein to fellowship. This is NOT the place for you ... it is a bad fit ... and moreso it is now required that you vacate this fellowship and go and be with your church instead
Flock member: The LORD can do things you can not do.
Me: Amen
Leader 1: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen...
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: : Amen
Flock member: Amen Leader 2
Leader 2: And Yes ... 14 ) repentance from dead works is another unmitigated truth
Leader 2: does anyone have a problem with 14?
Flock member: no
Flock member: no
Flock member: no problem with it
Flock member: no
Flock member: no
Timothy: I would add a sub-requirement to that repentance
Flock member: no
Leader 2: ok
Me: no problem with #14
Flock member: (sorry I was late, are the verses numbered?)
Flock member: It's easy to say it but harder to really do it...
Flock member: somewhere deep inside, I must have a problem - been thinking of stopping, just have not committed to it.
Timothy: The Lord has requirements for that requirement ;)
Leader 2: He does not require perfecction ... but a sincere striving to obey
Flock member: Dead works are hobbies or vain religios doings?
Flock member: ...Amen..
Flock member: i don't have a problem with it but I do have a problem with smoking
Me: Amen Leader 2
Flock member: Hobbies (ninja emoticon)
Flock member: [12:09:31 PM] Flock member: somewhere deep inside, I must have a problem - been thinking of stopping, just have not committed to it.

<<< the reason I say I must have a problem with it is that I am still smoking
Leader 2: if you have a problem with smoking that is fine ... if you don't ahve a problem with it and enjoy it and fight for your right to continue in it ... than we have a problem with 14
Leader 2: Tim ... what are the requirements for 14
Timothy: One must repent with sincere remorse in their heart, then also sincerely desire to turn from that dead work seeking the Lord's strength to do so... the Lord requires us to come to Him in sincerity and truth with "empty bags"
Flock member: (to flock member with problems quitting smoking) pray to the LORD for help HE CAN HELP you in this case, believe me for He helped me in another case where I couldn´t help myself.
Flock member: amen Lord, and thank you Timothy
Flock member: i used to smoke, thankyou YahuShua
Me: Amen Lord
Leader 2: can we fool God?
Flock member: no
Me: no
Leader 1: Me too, a pack of cloves/day
Flock member: : no
Flock member: No way
Flock member: : no
Flock member: and the truth is, I have stopped before, that is why I am just being honest - I know he knows
Flock member: This world is full of temptations and possibilities to disobey God : (
Leader 2: I have my own besetting sins
Me: He is helping me quit caffine :)
Timothy: see this Letter for more-> [trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Leader 1: What if we have the attitude of, this is who I am, and I will be like this forever... Is that honorable in God's sight?
Flock member: no
Leader 2: right
Me: no not at all
Flock member: no
Leader 2: if our sin is our friend ... well, that is the problem with 14 ... if you sin is your enemy and your spirit wars with it ... then 14 is not the problem
Flock member: is caffine bad?
Flock member: coffee? Yes
Me: well.. in my case. I was getting headaches when I didn't have it so I knew I was too dependent on it
Leader 2: if it is revealed as bad for you ... than depart from it and harden not your heart
Timothy: ... For the Truth, when it is established in you, must destroy that in you which is not of the Truth and is a lie...and so the battle rages. ...

~ [www.trumpetcallofgodonline.com]




6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

It will be difficult to really put every part of the loaded language but I will give some of the big examples below:

Banquet = the studies where the Lord would let us “feast” on His word. It was considered an absolute privilege to be involved in these banquets.
The Lord’s Table = Reference to the banquet as the place where members meet to fellowship with other believers and the Lord himself.
The Lord’s little flock = The elite, small circle group which consisted of the members in the studies.
Trust with Abandonment = To give 100% of yourself for God, no matter what happens inside or outside of you trust completely. ** this one was used a lot in my thought stopping process, any time there were any doubts or if someone was doing something to me or against me which was hurtful or making me wonder if it was worth it, etc.
Obey without expectation = To be self-sacrificial in your obedience, don’t expect anything in return (even to be worthy of rapture), but just obey.
Love without condition = No matter how hard something is, the Lord gave up everything for us and so there should be no conditions in our love for Him, we need to do all things out of Love for the Lord (speak about Him and trumpet, obey the letters etc.)
Trumpet His word / Trumpeting = Telling others about the letters to spread them as far and wide as possible. (Many used internet media such as facebook, youtube, blogs etc. and others also handed out cards in person, I did both)
FROGLA = Fresh Revelation of God’s Love and Acceptance, when someone said they had a “FROGLA” it meant they had a revelation from the Lord.
Nothing doubting = To have nothing doubting meant that you had no doubts about the letters or the Lord’s work in our day. That you would obey at the drop of a hat because you had no doubts at all.
Man’s doctrine = Man’s doctrine or Man-made church was the mainstream churches and their doctrine which consisted mainly of grace and “forsakes” or “desecrates” the law. There were many letters about man’s doctrine and Trent was even given a letter to tell him to “stop teaching Grace vs the Law and instead teach Grace AND the Law”.
Wheat vs. the Chaff and immature wheat = This was “us” vs. “them”, we were the wheat being bundled and prepared for “harvest” (which is the rapture) when we would be taken into “the Lord’s barn for seven days”. The chaff were those who were unbelievers, the ones who would suffer the tribulation and would still not turn to the Lord, eventually being destroyed in the eternal fire (not tortured but destroyed in it). The immature wheat were believers in the Lord Jesus who hadn’t accepted the truth about the letters and the “truths” in them, they would need to go through the trials of fire in the tribulation but would then turn to the Lord and be martyred and taken to the Lord’s bosom for healing and be with the Lord then for eternity.

Like I said there are many more, but the above are just some examples.


7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

One example of this that I can recall is this, I used to love going to church ... I loved going to church from the time I was in high-school, as soon as I could drive I began to go regularly. When I came into this group though, I changed that point of view because of the doctrine of church being a deceitful place that was based on evil foundations meant to keep people from the Lord and His ways. I emphasized the “bad” things which I experienced out of the frailties of human nature and ignored the “good” things which church allowed in my life. When I told stories about my (at that time former) church I painted stories of people who were trying to make me disobey the Lord and deceive me into following the ways of the world. I changed my view of my pastor who I always regarded before as someone I could trust and learn from, to someone who was prideful and deceptive and “high-minded” (meaning he thought he knew better because of his “scholarly education” and “theology”). I even changed my view of some of my best friends who were attending that church; I saw them as people who were blinded to the truth and stubborn in following the deceptions from the church instead of people who loved the Lord and were seeking to follow Him. I also changed my view of my family, instead of the loving and caring environment that I was raised in I instead saw them as stubborn and haughty, high on themselves and the world.


8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.
We felt extremely distraught over those who left or were kicked out of the group because we believed that they had “made the wrong choices” and were now going to suffer in the tribulation. If they trusted the Lord as their savior we believed they would still spend eternity with the Lord, but they would first have to be put through the trials of fire in the tribulation so they could be broken and humbled coming before the Lord in repentance. I have pasted some letters which were given to those who were “departed from the Lord’s table” below:
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com] (this one the member may have voluntarily left)

This is part of a conversation where we got a “live” letter for someone who chose not to follow one of the doctrines (not sure it ever made it into the volumes or not:
11:54:31 Departed flock member: Hello everyone,
11:54:47 Departed flock member: I jus want to say goodbey...
11:55:08 Departed flock member: I have been tested, and I have failed.
11:55:46 Timothy: The Lord is saying...

"By 300 was My glory revealed, even as those 300 beheld My glory according to My will. Yet of that which was required of the children of Israel, only two of the first multitude entered, even the lampstand which I had set over them did not enter, remaining that example to the people according to that which the Lord requires, even unto death, even according to that much more which is required of those who lead the flock. Yet his reward was met, for though he died, he was also taken... for his service is not yet concluded.
11:56:19 Departed flock member: I had to make a decession, between leaving the church included my children an wife..
11:57:04 Departed flock member: or live alone, with nothing left...


11:57:55 Departed flock member: I have chosen for my children and marige, so this is the last study.



11:58:29 Leader 1: We pray well for you.
11:58:35 Timothy: You have choosen poorly My son... by which I you have also grieved Me....
11:58:42 Timothy: therefore depart....
11:58:48 Flock member: (to the departed flock member), I too was faced with a choice, I abandoned my relationship with my husband - for the Lord revealed to me that the truth was not in him. It hurts. And all men will fail you.
11:58:50 Departed flock member: And by this choice I have also chosen to die for Him I guess, and this I will do.
11:59:00 Leader 2: Well, I am glad you are off the fence but I am not pleased that you took the decision to break the Lord's heart in the matter. ... even so , amen.
11:59:03 Timothy: for you shall serve Me in the Day... says The Lord
11:59:29 Timothy: yet not as those I am sending, but as one who loves Me...
11:59:45 Timothy: as one who choose his life in this world...
12:00:21 Timothy: therefore you will loose it in the Day as one who has lost it and w
12:01:03 Timothy: on My account
12:01:19 Timothy: testifying...
12:01:39 Timothy: even with your last breath to the Greastest of All Loves
12:01:44 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:02:23 Leader 2: ;(
12:02:35 Flock member: Amen
12:02:35 Flock member: ;(
12:02:40 Flock member: ;(
12:02:41 Timothy: *chose
**lose
12:02:59 Me: Amen Lord, even so .. Amen
12:03:03 Flock member: my face is a frownie face, my heart aches for you, and I know how hard choices can be
12:03:04 Flock member: Amen, Father, thank you, and ruud, we love you, and God is still with you,
12:03:21 Flock member: wow, Amen.
12:03:26 Flock member: brother, we love you
12:03:29 Flock member: ohhhhh LORD... You are Mighty To Save!!!!!!!
12:03:33 Timothy: Behold even I have spoken it before the small of My flock and so shall it be
12:03:35 Flock member: even so, Amen Lord
12:03:38 Departed flock member: My choice can not been undone anymore?
12:04:15 Timothy: save all these departing turn back again.... and return to Me... even Me...
12:04:28 Timothy: who is and shall be their first love
12:04:45 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:05:37 Flock member: Oh, Lord, I love you so much. I am so besot with grief.
12:05:38 Me: oh Lord, I love You.
12:05:41 Timothy: Think not that I have not beheld your hearts....
12:05:59 Timothy: for that which remains lacking among you shall be purged
12:06:09 Me: Thank you Lord
12:06:19 Flock member: and, YOU are worth all the lose of things of this world. You alone are worthy oh righteous One of Israel. I love you. So much.
12:06:27 Flock member: Oh Lord Cause Them To Repent And Humble Themsevles greatly before Your Face ,I cry For them
12:06:29 ~Flock member: thank You Lord.....i do love You Father
12:06:54 Timothy: and those of you who remain on your own part, shall be removed from My table
12:07:00 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:07:02 Me: Purge the dross in me Lord, I Love you
12:07:16 Flock member: amen Lord
12:07:21 Timothy: for I have set many things before you.... even from the beginning
12:07:31 Timothy: yet few have descerned
12:07:34 Flock member: amen Father, thank you. I love you soooooo much.
12:09:10 Timothy: I have sent many to you... yet few have lending a hand, and few among you have spoken on My behalf... and to the sorrow of My heart, few have been My hands and My feet by which those I sent were to be healed
12:09:33 Timothy: My servant Trent has spoken and taught you well....
12:09:47 Timothy: yet who among you has discerned My intention?
12:10:02 Flock member: I LOve You Sooo Much Lord You ARE Mine Forever My First LOve I Kiss You with The Kisses Of my Lips ThankYOU Lord for ALL Your Blessengs I embrace All Of them I LOVE YOU LORD
12:10:32 Timothy: *lended
12:11:07 Timothy: for the greastest works among you, reveal little concerning your trusts
12:11:51 Timothy: for that commanded which is obvious is known by all and performed
12:11:53 Departed flock member: This does not mean that I don't believe in the truth of the Letters, these are the truth absolute, so I will continue to pray for you all! Keep the faith and choose better then I did. I am not worthy,I have failed and this is what I have to pay for... Bey ;(;(;( Lord I love you!!!
12:12:58 Timothy: Even now My children remain as martha... concerned over many things...
12:13:19 Me: oh Lord
12:13:51 Flock member: True Love Is Leaving ALL to Follow Him
12:13:56 Timothy: unable to be still at My feet to listen.... behold even now... in your minds I hear a multitude of noise... leading to confusion...
12:14:12 Timothy: BE STILL!
12:14:17 Timothy: in heart and in mind
12:14:32 Timothy: in person and in speech
12:15:13 Timothy: beloved can one fail when sitting at My feet?
12:15:33 Timothy: can one fail when putting Me first?!
12:16:04 Timothy: can one lead another, except they walk in My footsteps?
12:17:01 Timothy: By example shall you lead your beloved, the example of which I am!
12:17:28 Timothy: Can one lead another to Me by departing My table?!
12:19:08 Timothy: it is the humble still servant who sits at My table, quietly beaconing to all others, that they should come and sit next to them, who shall receive his reward
12:20:57 Timothy: yet I tell you... does one sit at My table forever... or is much more required of a servant such as this?
12:21:17 Timothy: are not My gifts to be shared?
12:22:36 Timothy: what of the servant who refuses to wash the feet of another, on account of having never seen their face?
12:23:28 Timothy: therefore beloved you must ask yourselves what is your reasonable service in The Lord?...
12:24:42 Timothy: and what shall I do with those who proclaim their love for Me daily, yet have refuse to give?
12:26:23 Timothy: ... those who have not endevoured by any means... whether great or small (for it makes no difference in My eyes) to help even every single servant i have sent to them?
12:27:13 Timothy: Is knowledge required to obey The Lord?!
12:27:29 Timothy: where is your trust?
12:28:02 Timothy: and if you trust where are My works wrought in you?
12:28:16 Timothy: Do you really love Me?
12:29:45 Timothy: and if you love Me... why have you forsaken Me?... leaving Me naked and hungry....sick and in prison...
12:30:58 Timothy: is your charity, built upon knowledge which is according to an end of which you have decided?!
12:32:28 Timothy: Does it matter at all in My eyes, whether one gives to another in this manner or that... or in by amount or that?...
12:33:47 Timothy: I care not about the action and its perceived glory in the eyes of men
12:34:26 Timothy: I care about that which you have done to Me according to that which reveals your hearts
12:34:39 Timothy: have you not read?
12:34:54 Timothy: "Faith without works is dead"
12:36:45 Timothy: Yet some among you replace your works with empty words and vain excuses, which only serve to expose you, and a faith which suffers on your own account... yet you blame others... even to your unbelieving spouces and the world
12:37:29 Timothy: what part does and unbeliever have with Me?
12:37:40 Timothy: and what is the world to Me?!...
12:37:49 Timothy: It is My footstool!!
12:40:52 Timothy: what concern is it of yours whether another servant gives in this manner or that manner?... concern NOT yourselves with other servants of The Master
12:41:36 Timothy: Concerns yourselves with Me!
12:44:23 Timothy: What is greater ... one who gives of his time, money, possessions, and strength according to the multitude by which I have blessed him; or the one who gives from his lack?
12:44:48 Timothy: what of the servant who tithes of all they have?
12:45:33 Timothy: Therefore thus says The Lord your God and Savior:
12:48:51 Timothy: All those among you who have to date withheld from the Lord, whether out of your lack or abundance... having not tithed, either directly or through this ministry, which I have set up... having withheld in any manner by which I have taught you, whether of time, money, possessions, or of your body... depart from My table.
12:49:52 Timothy: ... for you faith is revealed by that which remains lacking... and by that which remains undone is it made plain
12:50:13 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:50:21 Timothy: and I shall purge!
12:50:33 Timothy: Even I will refine My people
12:50:42 Timothy: and burn away the dross!
12:51:05 Timothy: For I am come to gather and that which is required will be made plain....
12:51:23 Timothy: for by no other means shall I finish you.
12:52:01 Timothy: Go... yet never forget I am He who searches the hearts and minds....
12:52:45 Timothy: yes, I am He, who has died and and is risen! Amen....
12:53:19 Timothy: I am He, beloved.... I am He who corrects and disciplines as many as I love.
12:53:44 Timothy: says The Lord.

There was also one more which was sent via email to the ones being “departed because they didn’t give their money/time/strength etc.
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com] (this one must have been after I left but found it during my hunt for the others)

LLG thank you for this info - in the stuff I've skimmed through I can see how relevant some of this is to my situation. Will reply in detail later.
Bless you !

but some of it was changed radically from the original and no longer was even addressed to me nor was the “answer to my question” included, and we were told that when Timothy “reads it over with the Lord” sometimes He has him change some of it in order to more accurately portray what He was telling him.
.....
Why would God change what He says? He is never changing, he is the one true constant! That rings alarms bells right then and there!

And this....
Trent told me that it still needed to be “scribed” which he said meant that Timothy would pray over it and Amy would spell check and format it.
Since when does God need a spellcheck? I wonder what 'beseech' looks like in US english..... Maybe Amy's spellcheck is the KJV spellcheck....

This is so ridiculous.... and intelligent men and women are falling for it.

it makes no sense what so ever. that's why i really believe that these ppl have been brainwashed because it is so easy to see the lies, fraud, evil, incompressible "letters" written in old english.

i've always thought that amy is the brains behind this operation.

well, you know who i am trumpeters of god. i mean you no harm but you are ruining many many ppl's lives and have ruined our life. does that make you happy?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2010 02:41PM by frogla.