Whaaaaa.....Mentor and Disciple is a philosophy? According to Nagashima it is. Geez. From the horses mouth. He's sorry many members have lost their jobs and houses....hmmm such actual proof. And more statistics!!! more fudged membership cards. I found a template for the membership cards where it says you can included anyone "supportive" but not chanting. Gosh. Still they monkey with things!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 01:15AM by sushigrl.

Interestingly they have reinstated the old Ikeda™ Kayo-Kai (flower sun group) for young women and the Ikeda™ Suiko-Kai young men's group I'm sure is soon to follow. Join now!! free postcard if you join! in 20 years we will see who is still around! it's our mission!!! argg.

My next move is to find the contact details for SGI-UK. There is a database somewhere with all my membership and submitted info on it, and I want there to be no chance for it to be used for SGI's benefit or statistics. By law, I should be allowed to be told what is kept. Its a simple matter, but I'll be interested to see how the conversation goes.

Since I made up my mind to finally and utterly extricate myself from the org last week and return my Gohonzon once and for all (Ive tried before, but "relapsed"), Ive been getting on average two calls a day from local member, even after explicitly and clearly stating I have no interest, dont want to have anything to do with any activity, dont want to be told of any activity, invited to an activity, or, for that matter, have to explain my actions.
Theres nothing that infuriates an SGI member more, than having someone who was once onboard the SGI tunnel vision express deciding that its all a highly disturbing enterprise. How dare I have my own opinions and freedom, shame on me :o .

Gosh wayfarerfree I'm sorry to hear that they are harassing you. BUT, I used to be one of the "perps" who made unannounced home visits trying to "encourage" people to stay, (bang bang bang we know you're in there!, we're chanting for you") and yes I was a phone caller. You might even get some calls from "higher ups". Hopefully they will get the message and leave you alone.

@ wayfarerfree

Please keep us posted on what the reaction was. Legaly (I guess it is the same in the UK) you have never ever been a member of SGI (SGI-UK) anyway. Just a mere follower or supporter. In a legal sense the term member is NOT being used in a correct manner in most SGI national orgs.
I myself had emails comming in years later - politely then asking to be removed of their addressbook ... soemtimes it took a few times asking.
In the end you probably gave out your details on a private basis - legally. And even if so they would have to come forward and say so.
Might be interesting to look at that from the persective of European Data Protection Act.

Giving back your Gohonzon is in that case a personal decission in making a clear cut. I still have mine (rooled up for three years) and might hand it over when joining another Nichiren School. For me the rolling up was the cut so to speak.

Sushigirl - oh no, I dont think the higher ups will bother to bother me at all, (depending on what you mean by "higher", anyway...above HQ leader? Surely not?). That may change when my Gohonzon actually arrives back (at Taplow Court - UK National "Culture" - lol! - Centre). I have even less time for the lizard blooded cold "old guard" of the higher echelons than I do for the regional leaders. The good thing is, that I came to live in a new area, so I havnt strong connections to anyone here, compared to the area in which I first began practising, so I'm not as harassed as I otherwise would have been. As mentioned, Ive tried to return my G before and escape, but was talked back into returning to the fold. I think Im generally regarded as not proper Soka material by types here, which I would consider a compliment! So not quite as aggressive as the home-visit/raid methods you mentioned.

Rothaus - Im not sure. I was given a fancy certificate of membership on the day I recieved the Gohonzon. The Data Protection Act seems to be keeping SGI on its toes here. Over the past two years access to info has been highly organised protected and controlled, and properly stored/databased. SGI havnt had any choice in that, they would be hammered by EU Law if they didnt, and they're not that stupid. Getting SGI to delete and prove they've deleted all my records would be the hard part.
On your other point, I just cant bear having the Gohonzon anywhere near me. Ive no intention of joining another Nichirin School since I have come to dislike his overall approach. As far as furnishings and possessions go, I dont like clutter in my life or surroundings, and the Gohonzon - with iall its connotations and associated bad SGI experiences had come to represents one huge sordid, screwed up blob of cluttered-up-ness to me.
(it came to the point that I was having panic attacks evertime I tried to sit down and do gongyo - this from someone who would have happily chanted 6 hours a day before - I truly couldnt do it anymore, but my "Soka training" was telling me to continue)

Got a lot more space to study in now too.
Shame I havnt an open fire, because I could have used the firewood.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 06:44AM by wayfarerfree.

Wayfarerfree: "I dont like clutter in my life or surroundings, and the Gohonzon and related paraphenalia represents one huge sordid SGI experience and headachy blob of cluttered-up-ness to me now. Got a lot more space to study in now too. Shame I havnt an open fire, because I could have used the firewood."


My kids are bugging me to get rid of the gigantic butsudan and stuff that I accumulated during my 20 yr practice. It's taking up prime real estate here in my house. I need to get rid of the superstition. I'm glad you are a practical person. Yay!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 06:52AM by sushigrl.

Sushigirl - is it one of those Tardis-like Butsudans, a room in its own right and big enough to have its own weather systems and gravity. Scary. And, I'm presuming, very expensive? E-bay?

If theres one thing I have never done, its to disrespect books. Even the most mundane books, I would normally keep or give to charity. So I shocked myself this week by ripping "A Youthful Diary" into chunks small enough to go into paper recycling. This is the sort of thing the Nazi's did, but I couldnt justify this appalling tomes survival, or cope with the idea of it leading anyone else into the Ikeda cult, so, adios, and then, "The Human Revolution" (assorted volumes), followed. Very theraputic though.

I havnt quite treated the Gosho or Lotus Sutra with the same method yet, so my superstition still holds sway too in that area.
Even though I dont wish to pursue Nichiren Buddhism any further, it is still one of many schools and teachings, so I could justify keeping these books as part of my library. The only thing that would make me ditch my copy of the Gosho is that it was printed by SGI. Does this mean it differs from the original Gosho?

The Burton Watson translation of the Lotus Sutra is also endorsed , and maybe influenced, by SGI.

Could anyone shed any light on this?

Yes my butsudan has its own zipcode :)

A general point about books and materials, sometimes if they are not too damaging to people, they can be sold or traded.

For example, a friend had hundreds of flakey New Agey books, and they took them to 2nd hand bookstores, and got some cash, and good books on science in exchange.
They got back hundreds of dollars, which is better than nothing.

But for dangerous cult books, that can lure people into a cult, one can't imagine those should be sold or given away. They are a toxic poison pill.

A shredder for recycling, or a ceremonial campfire might be better.
It can be therapeutic to make a ritual of getting rid of that garbage, and not infecting others with the toxic material.

But if someone has a valuable piece of furniture, or something that is neutral, then why not sell it like any other piece of furniture using ebay, craiglist, or something like that?



As far as getting out of a database, that is possible. It takes work though.
Someone once signed someone up for a type of religious cultish group that "prays for you" and sends you prayer cards you never asked for. The member pays each year, and then the group sends the non-member cultish prayer spam, and "prays for you", as your name is on their prayer list.

This person got very offended, and called their head office many times, and got through to the person in charge, and got them to confirm in WRITING the name had been deleted from the "prayer spam" list. They took it off.

Its like the Mormon's putting everyone on their list, without your permission, including people from other religions. [www.culteducation.com]
That is extremely offenseive, and its possible to get off those lists, but one has to really make some noise.

Of course SGI will lie and say you are off the list. But a person could research the rules, and demand written confirmation from SGI that the name is out of the database.
It can be quite therapeutic to be assertive.
But of course, one has to be careful, the SGI experts can lure some people back into SGI with any personal contact.